[MagicMagicD]

This is an interesting thread. Has anyone tested using the V2L under the rear seat while parked and doing level 1 or 2 charging? It's not clear from the owner manual. Thanks.

I think Bjorn Nyland tested this in one of his videos - it doesn't work because it's making use of the same hardware.

 

[james_6076]

This should work

 

[aviryn]

This is an interesting thread. Has anyone tested using the V2L under the rear seat while parked and doing level 1 or 2 charging? It's not clear from the owner manual. Thanks.

In Israel the internal V2L is not an option so I can't test it.

 

[aviryn]

This should work
View attachment 41193

Nice job nevetheless the reason fot a thrmostat is the structure on the utility outlet. When building your own V2L and using an extention cable, this makes things complex as you need 3x2.5mm + 2 x control wires. This is not so common. Since the utility outlet is not plugged into the car and the utility socket is not constructed out of 2 sockets pluged into each other, this us not a risk. I bought a thermostat but after finilizing the V2L I have lefted it out.

 

[ev8484]

I think Bjorn Nyland tested this in one of his videos - it doesn't work because it's making use of the same hardware.

Thanks. I watched his video and he only tested the internal V2L socket while doing Level 3 DC fast charging and it appeared to work fine after he turned on the car. He did share his opinion about AC charging but he wasn't sure and didn't test. So, I am still looking for Level 1 or 2 AC charging test result.

 

[james_6076]

Nice job nevetheless the reason fot a thrmostat is the structure on the utility outlet. When building your own V2L and using an extention cable, this makes things complex as you need 3x2.5mm + 2 x control wires. This is not so common. Since the utility outlet is not plugged into the car and the utility socket is not constructed out of 2 sockets pluged into each other, this us not a risk. I bought a thermostat but after finilizing the V2L I have lefted it out.

I agree that the thermostat is probably not needed. However I have stacks of the exact cable needed to make this work! Also the component cost is small and the added piece of mind is large So will implement this in the MG and Hyundai cables going forward. Should have these available in 2 weeks.

 

[james_6076]

If anyone curious of the test setup

 

[james_6076]

BUTTON RELEASED

 

[james_6076]

BUTTON PRESSED

 

[aviryn]

BUTTON PRESSED
View attachment 41237
View attachment 41238
View attachment 41239

Why do you need a diode for? You might intended to put a 230V LED which is why the original unit has a PCB with a Zener diode and some other stuff. I simply found a switch with 230V Ac lamp and no more extra circuitry.

 

[james_6076]

Why do you need a diode for? You might intended to put a 230V LED which is why the original unit has a PCB with a Zener diode and some other stuff. I simply found a switch with 230V Ac lamp and no more extra circuitry.

The diode symbol is a bit misleading. The tester automatically detects the components and generates the circuit diagram. In reality it's actually a pcb with a few passives that switch an indicator lamp. I omitted it from the circuit I drew as it's not essential.

 

[Rich5]

Can you trace the circuit out and post? I see some diodes, a cap, a zener and resistors. Perhaps just the 62 ohm will work but it would be great to see the entire schematic to see what all the other components do.

============================

Well since owning the car I have been looking at the V2L dongle and wonder how it does what it does.

Looking at the unit I suspected that there couldn't be a whole lot going on because it didn't weigh too much.

With that in mind I thought it was fair to assume that the car did the heavy lifting in providing the angry pixies to allow us to dry the dog or boil a kettle or whatever it is you have done with V2L. and the dongle is just the means of connecting car to load and activating the Inverter in the car and allowing us the voltage output by the inverter.

So curiosity got the better of me today and i pulled it apart.

The main findings were that the dongle is indeed nothing more than a conduit from car to load with a switch to activate the inverter.

It activates the inverter by firstly telling the car there is something plugged into the charging port, This is done a circuit between between PP and PE with a 62 ohm resistance

Then when we operate the switch the CP line is also connected back to PE through the switch and thermal fuse which then tells the car to lock in the V2L dongle and switch on the inverter. Again this circuit has a resistance of 62 ohm

It's a pretty simple setup really with only a switch, a led and a thermal fuse to stop supply if the V2L socket gets too hot.













View attachment 39196

 

[aviryn]

Can you trace the circuit out and post? I see some diodes, a cap, a zener and resistors. Perhaps just the 62 ohm will work but it would be great to see the entire schematic to see what all the other components do.

============================

Look at the wiring. It only handles the LED under AC power so you must create a DC power etc. Somply use a switch with 230V lamp from Ali. Few $ and you are done.

 

[alexw]

I just tore down my own USA-spec V2L adapter (for a Kia EV6, but same same). Inside the Hyundai/Kia V2L Connector

The takeaways are

• The J1772 connector has a latch switch that the Type 2 doesn't.
• Thermal switch and power button short PP and CP when they're both good/on
• The latch handle connects PP to Neutral with 75 ohms when the latch is closed i.e. the handle is in place, and
• When the latch is open, PP to Neutral with 500 ohms (i.e. "do not power").
• Neutral is shorted to ground internally, which is probably ideal and will power an EVSE if you're trying to (slowly) car-to-car charge.

Also, this person can confirm: they bought a Korean connector to plug into their USA car, and only got 120V out.

Otherwise - I'm pretty bummed that there's definitely no practical avenue for a simple DIY USA-spec 240V/16A out connector. It also makes me worried about the prospect of ever seeing V2G/V2H out of these cars as-is, though I suppose they may have provision for more complicated powerline signaling or something to talk to the right bidirectional EVSE in the future.

On the plus side, at least you can DIY a (maybe even more practical!) adapter for a lot cheaper than $500. I think I'll go about selling mine.

Also, I'd conclude the same as most of you that the internal outlet and the external are internally connected together and to the same single phase off the inverter/charger. Hopefully there's some provision for getting split-phase output in the USA over the J1772, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Fan of EV]

I just tore down my own USA-spec V2L adapter (for a Kia EV6, but same same). Inside the Hyundai/Kia V2L Connector

The takeaways are

• The J1772 connector has a latch switch that the Type 2 doesn't.
• Thermal switch and power button short PP and CP when they're both good/on
• The latch handle connects PP to Neutral with 75 ohms when the latch is closed i.e. the handle is in place, and
• When the latch is open, PP to Neutral with 500 ohms (i.e. "do not power").
• Neutral is shorted to ground internally, which is probably ideal and will power an EVSE if you're trying to (slowly) car-to-car charge.

Also, this person can confirm: they bought a Korean connector to plug into their USA car, and only got 120V out.

Otherwise - I'm pretty bummed that there's definitely no practical avenue for a simple DIY USA-spec 240V/16A out connector. It also makes me worried about the prospect of ever seeing V2G/V2H out of these cars as-is, though I suppose they may have provision for more complicated powerline signaling or something to talk to the right bidirectional EVSE in the future.

On the plus side, at least you can DIY a (maybe even more practical!) adapter for a lot cheaper than $500. I think I'll go about selling mine.

Also, I'd conclude the same as most of you that the internal outlet and the external are internally connected together and to the same single phase off the inverter/charger. Hopefully there's some provision for getting split-phase output in the USA over the J1772, but I'm not holding my breath.

Thank you for all this detail on the internals of the US spec version of that device. Nothing too surprising there.

With respect to V2H and/or V2G, I strongly suspect that would use something similar to a CCS connector and the car would simply allow an external device direct access to the HV batteries.

The main reason for that suspicion is simply the low power output an inverter in any car would have and the difficulties in making one that would properly sync frequency and voltage and meet local grid connection codes for all the locations around the world.

It would be much easier for the EV manufacturers to simply close the HV battery contactors to connect the battery to the high voltage pins on the CCS connector when asked by an external device.

That external device would then be the one that would have to be compliant with the various local safety requirements and other regulations. The car itself would definitely monitor the state of charge, cell temperatures, etc. and disconnect the contactors if/when it was unhappy with conditions, but the wall box would be the device that would have to have a grid tied inverter, etc.

I guess I should go read whatever public documentation and/or specifications there are for V2G and CCS. . . The above is simply speculation based on how I would approach the problem if I hadn’t retired out of engineering a while back.

 

[alexw]

Thank you for all this detail on the internals of the US spec version of that device. Nothing too surprising there.

With respect to V2H and/or V2G, I strongly suspect that would use something similar to a CCS connector and the car would simply allow an external device direct access to the HV batteries.

The main reason for that suspicion is simply the low power output an inverter in any car would have and the difficulties in making one that would properly sync frequency and voltage and meet local grid connection codes for all the locations around the world.

It would be much easier for the EV manufacturers to simply close the HV battery contactors to connect the battery to the high voltage pins on the CCS connector when asked by an external device.

That external device would then be the one that would have to be compliant with the various local safety requirements and other regulations. The car itself would definitely monitor the state of charge, cell temperatures, etc. and disconnect the contactors if/when it was unhappy with conditions, but the wall box would be the device that would have to have a grid tied inverter, etc.

I guess I should go read whatever public documentation and/or specifications there are for V2G and CCS. . . The above is simply speculation based on how I would approach the problem if I hadn’t retired out of engineering a while back.

As far as documentation, there isn’t much. I believe the standards are some combination of paywalled and WIP to begin with.

it’s certainly the case that DC V2G is “easy” - there’s already a wallbox product on the market that works with chademo and the leaf. They’ve got an update in the works for CCS.

The problem is, I don’t see a very compelling case for DC V2G, when the shore side hardware is nearly as expensive as a powerwall itself. The ENTIRE allure of bidirectional chargers like on the I5/EV6 is buying that expensive hardware once

also, I think you couldn’t be more wrong about the onboard charger being too limiting. It’s good for 11kW charging, and I’m very willing to bet 11kW in reverse. 11kW continuous roundly beats the powerwall’s 5kW continuous and 7 peak. Plus, 11kW is literally half a typical service in the USA, 43A when most houses are wired for 100. You can run nearly every daily load at once off that, not that you probably ever would.

I’m fully convinced these cars, and many on the market now, will support DC V2G when the standards are stable. But if Hyundai has designed the i5 and EV6 with only DC V2G in mind, that would be a swing and a COLOSSAL miss.

I should clarify, specialty shore-side hardware will certainly be required for management, scheduling, anti-islanding, isolation, and so on. But with onboard grid following generation (which I HOPE the cars already have support for), that would be “a little more expensive” than a current EVSE, vs “most of a powerwall” for the Wallbox Quasar 2 DC V2G that’s in development.

 

[tkdoherty]

I don't have the skill or knowledge to build my own but definitely am in the market for one, so I'm very interested in the ones on Alibaba. $70 is a lot easier to swallow than $500+ from Hyundai. Maybe the knockoffs will inspire Hyundai to lower their price. If anyone actually picks up one from Alibaba, please share your experience.

 

[evtricity]

I don't have the skill or knowledge to build my own but definitely am in the market for one, so I'm very interested in the ones on Alibaba. $70 is a lot easier to swallow than $500+ from Hyundai. Maybe the knockoffs will inspire Hyundai to lower their price. If anyone actually picks up one from Alibaba, please share your experience.

The ones from Alibaba are generic and very likely won't work with the Ioniq 5.

It looks like James from EV Cables is going to make a Ioniq 5 compatible V2L adaptor based on the information shared in this thread. I'd suggest chatting to him about getting one with your preferred plug if you don't wish to DIY.

 

[alexw]

I don't have the skill or knowledge to build my own but definitely am in the market for one, so I'm very interested in the ones on Alibaba. $70 is a lot easier to swallow than $500+ from Hyundai. Maybe the knockoffs will inspire Hyundai to lower their price. If anyone actually picks up one from Alibaba, please share your experience.

I'd also add, making this cable in a safe, reliable way is VERY easy to do, but Alibaba sellers go to great lengths to make even the simplest devices unsafe. I probably wouldn't shop there for anything potentially dangerous that I wasn't well qualified to evaluate the safety of.

 

[tkdoherty]

The ones from Alibaba are generic and very likely won't work with the Ioniq 5.

It looks like James from EV Cables is going to make a Ioniq 5 compatible V2L adaptor based on the information shared in this thread. I'd suggest chatting to him about getting one with your preferred plug if you don't wish to DIY.

The one I'm looking at on Alibaba has a photo of it with an Ioniq 5 and allows you to select the type of plug (US, EU, UK, JP, Universal) so I assume it will work with a US Ioniq 5. But I make no such assumptions for quality. Thanks for the suggestion about EV Cables -I'll check.