[Delbouy]

Found this on Alibaba. Was offered price of 110USD with shipping to EU
View attachment 40637

Be interested to see one in the plastic to pull it apart and see how well its made and if it does indeed work

 

[aviryn]

Well since owning the car I have been looking at the V2L dongle and wonder how it does what it does.

Looking at the unit I suspected that there couldn't be a whole lot going on because it didn't weigh too much.

With that in mind I thought it was fair to assume that the car did the heavy lifting in providing the angry pixies to allow us to dry the dog or boil a kettle or whatever it is you have done with V2L. and the dongle is just the means of connecting car to load and activating the Inverter in the car and allowing us the voltage output by the inverter.

So curiosity got the better of me today and i pulled it apart.

The main findings were that the dongle is indeed nothing more than a conduit from car to load with a switch to activate the inverter.

It activates the inverter by firstly telling the car there is something plugged into the charging port, This is done by the Red wire connected between PP and PE

Then when we operate the switch the CP line is also connected back to PE through the switch and thermal fuse which then tells the car to lock in the V2L dongle and switch on the inverter.

It's a pretty simple setup really with only a switch, a led and a thermal fuse to stop supply if the V2L socket gets too hot.







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Hi.
I have been trying to build my own V2L. Looking at your post, I have bought all needed parts. Since I have used a 5 meter cable, the utility socket is away from the car so a thermostat is not needed. As per you pictures and explanation, I have placed a permanent short between the PE and the PP and a switched short between the PE and the CP. This does no activate anything in the car. The charging lamps are not blinking and the 230VAC does not show (my setup includes a permanent DVM on the utility socket housing.
From the pictures, I do not see anything connected to the PE pin except for the green / yellow ground wire the is connected to the utility socket Base on the other side.
From whet I see on the PCB, it is all passive except for a LED and a diode or two to handle the LED from the 230 V AC.
BTW, I use a switch with built in 230VAC indicator so no diodes are needed.
Can you correct me or re-check your diagnostics of the product.

 

[evtricity]

Hi.
I have been trying to build my own V2L. Looking at your post, I have bought all needed parts. Since I have used a 5 meter cable, the utility socket is away from the car so a thermostat is not needed. As per you pictures and explanation, I have placed a permanent short between the PE and the PP and a switched short between the PE and the CP. This does no activate anything in the car. The charging lamps are not blinking and the 230VAC does not show (my setup includes a permanent DVM on the utility socket housing.
From the pictures, I do not see anything connected to the PE pin except for the green / yellow ground wire the is connected to the utility socket Base on the other side.
From whet I see on the PCB, it is all passive except for a LED and a diode or two to handle the LED from the 230 V AC.
BTW, I use a switch with built in 230VAC indicator so no diodes are needed.
Can you correct me or re-check your diagnostics of the product.

Try adding 62 ohm resistance between PP and PE and also 62 ohm resistance between CP and PE

 

[aviryn]

Try adding a 62 ohm resistor between PP and PE and also a 62 ohm resistor between CP and PE

Hi.
Thanks. I am aware to the fact that resistors play a roll in the charging mode. I did not find any data regarding the V2L mode. Are you suggesting this since you built your own V2L?

 

[evtricity]

Measuring the Hyundai V2L adaptor with a multimeter, there is 62 Ohm resistance between PP and PE. And when the V2L switch is turned on, there is 62 ohm between CP and PE. ie. they are not a dead short.

 

[aviryn]

Measuring the Hyundai V2L adaptor with a multimeter, there is 62 Ohm resistance between PP and PE. And when the V2L switch is turned on, there is 62 ohm between CP and PE. ie. they are not a dead short.

Thanks. I will share my setup when it will be OK. I have added a CB and a voltage meter on an outdoor universal socket . All are outdoor.

 

[aviryn]

Thanks. I will share my setup when it will be OK. I have added a CB and a voltage meter on an outdoor universal socket . All are outdoor.

Hi.

just for reference, see this.

V2L - vehicle to load adapter / cable

I'll assume from for eloquent response you wish me to sell you one. €500 plus postage. Blimey! No thanks. (Was curious as to how much they retailed for.)

www.mgevs.com

It is for an MG and the instructions are a little different.

 

[elektrinis]

Thanks. I will share my setup when it will be OK. I have added a CB and a voltage meter on an outdoor universal socket . All are outdoor.

Try other values as well! You may accidentally triger will 11kW on 3 phases, which would be beyond welcome.

 

[cycloptivity]

Try other values as well! You may accidentally triger will 11kW on 3 phases, which would be beyond welcome.

beyond welcome as “this is awesome! 3 phase V2L” or “beyond welcome three phases into one magic smoke bad times”

I don’t really see how the later would happen with the way things are wired up. Getting full power out would be amazing

 

[elektrinis]

To my understanging, V2L is being handled by the same onboard charger, working in bidirectional mode. I have a hunch two other phases are identical, and I have a feeling the hardware is already capable of full bidirectional 3-phase operation with the grid. Also there was a short article somewhere about testing in Netherlands.
So I guess that we only need to discover the way to enable this mode, likely with different resistance. It may also be disabled in firmware, until Hyundai releases their smart grid integration.

 

[aviryn]

Measuring the Hyundai V2L adaptor with a multimeter, there is 62 Ohm resistance between PP and PE. And when the V2L switch is turned on, there is 62 ohm between CP and PE. ie. they are not a dead short.

I am sure you have measured 62 ohms OK but from the pictures posted here I do not see the earth (ground) having a splice to be used for the 2 resistors. I also do not see any resistor. One can be part of the switch but this is an assumption.
Furthermore, the Multimeter test pictures shows a measurement between the CP and the PP with switch On and Off.
I am aware to the fact that GM link I have sent talks only of a 440 ohms resistor between the PP and the PE.

 

[evtricity]

@aviryn Did you try adding the 62 ohm resistors as suggested?

If not, I'd suggest you add them. I have explained why and I know that they work.

When you've added the resistors, be careful of the voltage between L2/L3 and the floating neutral

 

[aviryn]

@aviryn Did you try adding the 62 ohm resistors as suggested?

If not, I'd suggest you add them. I have explained why and I know that they work.

When you've added the resistors, be careful of the voltage between L2/L3 and the floating neutral

I did not do that yet. I have sorted my resistors stock to get the 2 resistors. I have 2 trimmers I will adjust.
I did not read the IEC standard yet but from the little I have seen there is a room for play from the manufacturer’s side as the MG DIY post on the MGEV put just one 440 ohm resistor.

 

[aviryn]

To my understanging, V2L is being handled by the same onboard charger, working in bidirectional mode. I have a hunch two other phases are identical, and I have a feeling the hardware is already capable of full bidirectional 3-phase operation with the grid. Also there was a short article somewhere about testing in Netherlands.
So I guess that we only need to discover the way to enable this mode, likely with different resistance. It may also be disabled in firmware, until Hyundai releases their smart grid integration.

Yes. I have seen a Phd paper about that issue, stretching the optional topology of different solutions to achieve efficient inverter which is bidi.

 

[Delbouy]

Hi.
I have been trying to build my own V2L. Looking at your post, I have bought all needed parts. Since I have used a 5 meter cable, the utility socket is away from the car so a thermostat is not needed. As per you pictures and explanation, I have placed a permanent short between the PE and the PP and a switched short between the PE and the CP. This does no activate anything in the car. The charging lamps are not blinking and the 230VAC does not show (my setup includes a permanent DVM on the utility socket housing.
From the pictures, I do not see anything connected to the PE pin except for the green / yellow ground wire the is connected to the utility socket Base on the other side.
From whet I see on the PCB, it is all passive except for a LED and a diode or two to handle the LED from the 230 V AC.
BTW, I use a switch with built in 230VAC indicator so no diodes are needed.
Can you correct me or re-check your diagnostics of the product.

Apologies, It is indeed with a resistance of 62 ohms for both CP & PP to PE, I made the error of check without it all connected up and assembled.

I have checked for you and updated the original post with a pic to confirm its 62 ohm value.

Have fun

 

[aviryn]

Apologies, It is indeed with a resistance of 62 ohms for both CP & PP to PE, I made the error of check without it all connected up and assembled.

I have checked for you and updated the original post with a pic to confirm its 62 ohm value.

Have fun

Thanks.
I have added two resistors that are about 62 ohms. Now the plug is being identified and the plug is locked but I did not get any power. It was dark so I will repeat it tomorrow morning.

 

[evtricity]

Hang in there @aviryn you're very close to getting it working.

The plug will unlock when you "turn off" the switch between CP and PE i.e. remove the 62 ohm resistor.

This is a design feature of the Hyundai V2L connector - whereby you cannot pull out the connector while the switch is on (even after clicking door unlock on the keyfob). Once that switch is off (ie. the resistor is removed), when you click the door unlock on the key fob, the charge port will release the locking pin holding the V2L connector.

This is different to the MG V2L connector based on the comments in that MG thread. So, as well as using different resistors, the locking method is different as well. This is why it is better to study the actual Hyundai V2L connector than try to replicate the MG V2L connector (and why I've ignored references to the MG V2L connector as they're not helping here).

In terms of getting power, there will be 230V (assuming that is your national standard) between L1 and Neutral if:

• there is 62 ohm resistance between PP and PE
• there is 62 ohm resistance between CP and PE (i.e. switch is on)

If there is no resistor between CP and PE (ie. switch is off), there will be no voltage between L1 and Neutral.

Next steps:

When you get it up and running, you will likely find some unexpected (and changing) voltages due to the floating neutral i.e. there is not 230V between L2/neutral and L3/neutral (ie. 230/415V three phase V2L) as some of use are hoping.

As @elektrinis has mentioned, it is possible that different signalling (i.e. different resistance levels) may trigger different behaviour in terms of provision of V2L (single or three phase) and V2G. Assuming the CP acts as a Control Pilot you would expect that it is the resistance on the CP that may "change modes" in a similar manner to the current control on an EVSE. That's worth testing.

V2L and V2G:

It's worth noting here that the Ioniq 5 V2L is in effect a grid-forming inverter - it sets the voltage and frequency. If the Ioniq 5 does have V2G capability it will need to revert to being a grid-following inverter in order to play nicely with the grid (regardless of whether it's three phase capable).

There is likely to be someone in the Utrecht We Drive Solar V2G project who could "unofficially" confirm how that V2G mode is initiated. It makes sense to me that V2L and V2G connectors/EVSE would provide the communication (via resistors or otherwise) to the vehicle as to what mode it wants - grid-forming or grid-following - not the vehicle owner who may not know.

 

[aviryn]

Hang in there @aviryn you're very close to getting it working.

The plug will unlock when you "turn off" the switch between CP and PE i.e. remove the 62 ohm resistor.

This is a design feature of the Hyundai V2L connector - whereby you cannot pull out the connector while the switch is on (even after clicking door unlock on the keyfob). Once that switch is off (ie. the resistor is removed), when you click the door unlock on the key fob, the charge port will release the locking pin holding the V2L connector.

This is different to the MG V2L connector based on the comments in that MG thread. So, as well as using different resistors, the locking method is different as well. This is why it is better to study the actual Hyundai V2L connector than try to replicate the MG V2L connector (and why I've ignored references to the MG V2L connector as they're not helping here).

In terms of getting power, there will be 230V (assuming that is your national standard) between L1 and Neutral if:

• there is a 62 ohm resistor between PP and PE
• there is a 62 ohm resistor between CP and PE (i.e. switch is on)

If there is no resistor between CP and PE (ie. switch is off), there will be no voltage between L1 and Neutral.

Next steps:

When you get it up and running, you will likely find some unexpected (and changing) voltages due to the floating neutral i.e. there is not 230V between L2/neutral and L3/neutral (ie. 230/415V three phase V2L) as some of use are hoping.

As @elektrinis has mentioned, it is possible that different signalling (i.e. different resistance levels) may trigger different behaviour in terms of provision of V2L (single or three phase) and V2G. Assuming the CP acts as a Control Pilot you would expect that it is the resistance on the CP that may "change modes" in a similar manner to the current control on an EVSE. That's worth testing.

V2L and V2G:

It's worth noting here that the Ioniq 5 V2L is in effect a grid-forming inverter - it sets the voltage and frequency. If the Ioniq 5 does have V2G capability it will need to revert to being a grid-following inverter in order to play nicely with the grid (regardless of whether it's three phase capable).

There is likely to be someone in the Utrecht We Drive Solar V2G project who could "unofficially" confirm how that V2G mode is initiated. It makes sense to me that V2L and V2G connectors/EVSE would provide the communication (via resistors or otherwise) to the vehicle as to what mode it wants - grid-forming or grid-following - not the vehicle owner who may not know.

Thanks for sharing the info. I am an engineer so all was not surprising. The only thing I have no info is how close should I be to the 62 ohms and are the resistors need to be a matching pair. I guess they should not but that is just a guess. I assume there is a pull up in the car and a set of cooperators to determine the required mode.

 

[evtricity]

Using a potentiometer, the acceptable range is roughly 50-75 ohm to provide V2L power.

Changing the resistance between 80 to 1000 ohm doesn't elicit any response in terms of V2L power. This makes sense on the PP as these would normally be used between the PP to PE to signal maximum cable current (eg. on a Type 2 to Type cable) as follows:

1500 Ω resistor – 13A cable
680 Ω resistor – 20A cable
220 Ω resistor – 32A cable
100 Ω resistor – 63A cable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Proximity_Pilot

I'm not sure whether there may be more advanced signalling on the Control Pilot (CP) in the case of V2G i.e. the bidirectional EVSE would use a more advanced version of current control using a similar PWM duty cycle as a standard EVSE would use to set current limits.

However, I noticed in a video on FullyCharged that Robin Berg from the We Drive Solar Utrecht project stated that they developed their AC charging stations with Renault to use the same protocol as Chademo and that they are now trialing the V2G with 25 Hyundai Ioniq 5 vehicles. Would be great to understand what that means and most importantly what charging station they are using and how that protocol (or updated protocol) is implemented for the Ioniq 5.

Interested in max combined V2L current

Back to V2L and it appears that it is only available on one phase. Unfortunately I don't know how the Inner V2L socket works as it is not available in Ioniq 5 is Australia. While the manual states it can be used simultaneously with the outside V2L connector, I suspect that they are sharing the same inverter/phase and total current limit of 16A.

If anyone can test pulling at least 10A from both the inner and outer V2L we could readily confirm whether it is a 16A limit.

I'd test that myself but it seems very difficult to find let alone buy an inner V2L socket. There is a spare socket in the ICCU to plug it in and I'm confident that it doesn't require any additional software/firmare for it to work.

Picture below from

 

[Rich5]

Excellent work here. Certainly no need to spend $500 on the official one when you can make your own with a connector and 2 resistors.
Anyone have a scope to see the waveform coming out of the car?