[Winnipeg I5]

Thanks for the reply. One of the positive points the salesman made when I was shopping for this car was being able to monitor it remotely via Bluelink. From what I am gathering on the forum is that using Bluetooth will cause the 12v battery to discharge. If the HV battery will only try to charge the 12v 10 times and then quit, it sounds like monitoring the car from a distance over several months may not be a wise option option. That brings me back to using a battery tender as a possible way to mitigate this problem. I also see other I5 owners talking about substituting their 12V lead acid for a lithium battery. I use a lithium battery on a boat and love the extra capacity packed into the same physical space and the added usable capacity. One possible caveat is a lithium battery has a different resting voltage than a lead acid. Will the I5 charge the lithium replacement properly? Worth looking into perhaps.

It is for very frequent Bluelink hookups that the charging can’t keep up. Such as third party apps connecting to the car in the background. You probably just want to check in on your new baby once a day or so. I believe the 10 times are consecutive tries in a short period the car tries to charge the 12V. If the charge doesn’t get to around 12.7 V it stops after the 10th try as a safety because the car assumes something is wrong and it shouldn’t try sending juice if something is wrong.

 

[frank26080115]

Question: does my car have a "phone number"? Are robo-callers able to spam call it or spam text it?

 

[Neil F]

Question: does my car have a "phone number"? Are robo-callers able to spam call it or spam text it?

Is this a real question

 

[frank26080115]

Is this a real question

Yes. When you press refresh on the BlueLink app, Hyundai's server is basically sending the car a SMS of some sort, telling it to wake up and reply back with a status update once the car's computer wakes up.

My question is asking if a cellular modem requires the assignment of a phone number in order to work, which would make it a target for automated calling.

 

[Neil F]

No phone number is assigned to the car

 

[ngolf]

This might be a good solution for 12 volt issues.

Never Jump-Start an EV Again With the Latest 12-Volt Battery Tech

Even a mighty Hummer EV with a 200kWh battery uses a 12-volt battery that could leave you stranded, but Clarios has a fix for this.

www.motortrend.com

 

[TerryTx]

see post:
12 VDC Drain ?fixed? 27Jan2023

 

[BQ56]

Updated

Thought to summarize the discussions on 12 V battery drainage. Please point out mistakes.

• the 12 V battery is lower capacity than expected in a similar size class ICE because it doesn’t have to crank an engine. This means it is more susceptible to being drained and fatally damaged
• The 12 V is a 60 Ah battery. However, common advice for lead acid batteries is not have them prolonged below 50% of charge capacity so to be very cautious, the effective total power delivery (capacity) is 30 Ah whereas a similar size ICE would have a 45 Ah capacity. That's a third less power capacity than we are used to with an ICE.
• the I5 wakes and uses the 12 V when sending Bluelink notifications, doors open and plugged-in accessories communicate with it (e.g., wireless AirPlay devices trying to communicate with phones). This uses the 12 V.
• Using Accessories mode drains the 12 V battery. Use Utility mode which uses the traction battery if prolonged use of radio and other conveniences is needed. It can be challenging to know if in Accessories or Utility mode.
• Some third-party applications that use Bluelink can cause excessive waking of the car and drain the battery.
• Some think shipping cars for a long time across oceans resulted in battery draw and damage to the 12 V.
• the traction battery recharges the 12 V if the SOC is greater than 35% and the battery voltage approaches 12.1 V. It would be better if charging occurred at 12.3 V than so low to critical. The car tries 10 times to lift voltage and then stops until reset when the car is driven. One poster notes their car charges when below 35 % SOC.
• the 12 V won’t recharge with the lift gate open
• the front USB powers for longer when the car is off than other ports and accessories plugged into it will use power
• The 12 V sockets do not provide power when the car is off
• Some OBD scanners will draw power while the car is off, the same goes for battery monitors if they draw power while the car is off. We love our tech devices but they use power
• lights left on will draw power
• operating the power lift gate more than 5 times with the car off is a huge power draw
• 12 V won’t charge with lift gate or hood open
• having the car in Accessories mode is a major power draw
• there are some reports of parasitic power drain by the head unit and charging door
• a portable charge that many use is a NOCO GB40
• The 12 V battery will be damaged if the charge is 12 V or less. This is why the car charges the battery when approaching 12.1 V
• if a battery is drained very low it can be fatally damaged, especially in freezing conditions. A battery load test is recommended to insure continuing drain issues aren’t because of damage

Bottom line when not driving

• there is less power capacity (about 1/3 less) in the 12 V than we expect from a similar ICE
• it’s easier therefore to draw the charge down to damage the battery
• limit the use of Accessories mode
• For caution, keep SOC above 35%
• remove any plugged-in accessories from USB, data port and battery
• limit the need for the car to send Bluelink notifications when off (e.g., unlocked door notifications)
• eliminate third-party application use of Bluelink
• have all doors, hood and lift gate closed
• have all lights off
• limit occasions car wakes up such as walking by with FOB in pocket or using Bluelink
• load test battery if voltage has fallen repeatedly below 12 V or a concern it doesn’t hold a charge
• if all above doesn’t work then bring in for servicing

please suggest additions or changes and the IoniqPedia5 will be updated. Thanks.

Hi. You mention accessories mode but not Utility mode where the HV battery is enabled to watch over the 12V during long usage. Accessory mode is different than Utility mode.

 

[Simonsez]

In my findings and research, this is what I found (I'm based in the UK).

1. Hyundai cheaped out on the 12V lead acid battery.
2. The 12V battery does not charge if your main/ traction battery has lower than Approx 18% charge.
3. Possible issues connected with CCU, but unconfirmed. I just hope my car is not part of the bad batch from Korea with CCU issues.
4. The number of 3rd party apps thru’ Bluelink for data uploads to the cloud (another reason that Hyundai had provided earlier in Jan this year for the depleting 12v batt) can exceed thousands- some even recorded up to 5000 pings in a day, but Hyundai Engineering claim to have reduced this to 20 requests per day (TBC). I would be interested to dig deeper into the 3rd party apps that use Bluelink and see if there are GDPR laws flouted/ my data being sold / shared without authorization.
5. Battery management needs upgrades, the sleeping giant of a battery needs a fire starter and you’re out of flints- go figure.
6. Replacement of Lithium battery might invalidate warranty and could have issues with cold starts if you’re living where the temp drops below 0. This could be a viable alternative, but this isn’t a consumer decision.

 

[BQ56]

Updated

Thought to summarize the discussions on 12 V battery drainage. Please point out mistakes.

• the 12 V battery is lower capacity than expected in a similar size class ICE because it doesn’t have to crank an engine. This means it is more susceptible to being drained and fatally damaged
• The 12 V is a 60 Ah battery. However, common advice for lead acid batteries is not have them prolonged below 50% of charge capacity so to be very cautious, the effective total power delivery (capacity) is 30 Ah whereas a similar size ICE would have a 45 Ah capacity. That's a third less power capacity than we are used to with an ICE.
• the I5 wakes and uses the 12 V when sending Bluelink notifications, doors open and plugged-in accessories communicate with it (e.g., wireless AirPlay devices trying to communicate with phones). This uses the 12 V.
• Using Accessories mode drains the 12 V battery. Use Utility mode which uses the traction battery if prolonged use of radio and other conveniences is needed. It can be challenging to know if in Accessories or Utility mode.
• Some third-party applications that use Bluelink can cause excessive waking of the car and drain the battery.
• Some think shipping cars for a long time across oceans resulted in battery draw and damage to the 12 V.
• the traction battery recharges the 12 V if the SOC is greater than 35% and the battery voltage approaches 12.1 V. It would be better if charging occurred at 12.3 V than so low to critical. The car tries 10 times to lift voltage and then stops until reset when the car is driven. One poster notes their car charges when below 35 % SOC.
• the 12 V won’t recharge with the lift gate open
• the front USB powers for longer when the car is off than other ports and accessories plugged into it will use power
• The 12 V sockets do not provide power when the car is off
• Some OBD scanners will draw power while the car is off, the same goes for battery monitors if they draw power while the car is off. We love our tech devices but they use power
• lights left on will draw power
• operating the power lift gate more than 5 times with the car off is a huge power draw
• 12 V won’t charge with lift gate or hood open
• having the car in Accessories mode is a major power draw
• there are some reports of parasitic power drain by the head unit and charging door
• a portable charge that many use is a NOCO GB40
• The 12 V battery will be damaged if the charge is 12 V or less. This is why the car charges the battery when approaching 12.1 V
• if a battery is drained very low it can be fatally damaged, especially in freezing conditions. A battery load test is recommended to insure continuing drain issues aren’t because of damage

Bottom line when not driving

• there is less power capacity (about 1/3 less) in the 12 V than we expect from a similar ICE
• it’s easier therefore to draw the charge down to damage the battery
• limit the use of Accessories mode
• For caution, keep SOC above 35%
• remove any plugged-in accessories from USB, data port and battery
• limit the need for the car to send Bluelink notifications when off (e.g., unlocked door notifications)
• eliminate third-party application use of Bluelink
• have all doors, hood and lift gate closed
• have all lights off
• limit occasions car wakes up such as walking by with FOB in pocket or using Bluelink
• load test battery if voltage has fallen repeatedly below 12 V or a concern it doesn’t hold a charge
• if all above doesn’t work then bring in for servicing

please suggest additions or changes and the IoniqPedia5 will be updated. Thanks.

It's hard to be believe that the traction battery stops charging the 12V if its SOC is lower than 35%. On the road, the 12V will quickly drop below 12 volts if AC, lights, wipers, GPS are in use. Wouldn't the car just stop ?
That would mean that the last 35% of traction battery is unusable and that the real capacity is 2/3 of what is published.

 

[MIkeS]

It's hard to be believe that the traction battery stops charging the 12V if its SOC is lower than 35%. On the road, the 12V will quickly drop below 12 volts if AC, lights, wipers, GPS are in use. Wouldn't the car just stop ?
That would mean that the last 35% of traction battery is unusable and that the real capacity is 2/3 of what is published.

It only stops charging the 12v battery when the main HV battery is less than about 20% and the car is shut down. The 12v is continually charged when you are driving and so it does not drop below 12v.

 

[BQ56]

makes sense. Thanks.

 

[Boltnomore]

Updated

Thought to summarize the discussions on 12 V battery drainage. Please point out mistakes.

• the 12 V battery is lower capacity than expected in a similar size class ICE because it doesn’t have to crank an engine. This means it is more susceptible to being drained and fatally damaged
• The 12 V is a 60 Ah battery. However, common advice for lead acid batteries is not have them prolonged below 50% of charge capacity so to be very cautious, the effective total power delivery (capacity) is 30 Ah whereas a similar size ICE would have a 45 Ah capacity. That's a third less power capacity than we are used to with an ICE.
• the I5 wakes and uses the 12 V when sending Bluelink notifications, doors open and plugged-in accessories communicate with it (e.g., wireless AirPlay devices trying to communicate with phones). This uses the 12 V.
• Using Accessories mode drains the 12 V battery. Use Utility mode which uses the traction battery if prolonged use of radio and other conveniences is needed. It can be challenging to know if in Accessories or Utility mode.
• Some third-party applications that use Bluelink can cause excessive waking of the car and drain the battery.
• Some think shipping cars for a long time across oceans resulted in battery draw and damage to the 12 V.
• the traction battery recharges the 12 V if the SOC is greater than 35% and the battery voltage approaches 12.1 V. It would be better if charging occurred at 12.3 V than so low to critical. The car tries 10 times to lift voltage and then stops until reset when the car is driven. One poster notes their car charges when below 35 % SOC.
• the 12 V won’t recharge with the lift gate open
• the front USB powers for longer when the car is off than other ports and accessories plugged into it will use power
• The 12 V sockets do not provide power when the car is off
• Some OBD scanners will draw power while the car is off, the same goes for battery monitors if they draw power while the car is off. We love our tech devices but they use power
• lights left on will draw power
• operating the power lift gate more than 5 times with the car off is a huge power draw
• 12 V won’t charge with lift gate or hood open
• having the car in Accessories mode is a major power draw
• there are some reports of parasitic power drain by the head unit and charging door
• a portable charge that many use is a NOCO GB40
• The 12 V battery will be damaged if the charge is 12 V or less. This is why the car charges the battery when approaching 12.1 V
• if a battery is drained very low it can be fatally damaged, especially in freezing conditions. A battery load test is recommended to insure continuing drain issues aren’t because of damage

Bottom line when not driving

• there is less power capacity (about 1/3 less) in the 12 V than we expect from a similar ICE
• it’s easier therefore to draw the charge down to damage the battery
• limit the use of Accessories mode
• For caution, keep SOC above 35%
• remove any plugged-in accessories from USB, data port and battery
• limit the need for the car to send Bluelink notifications when off (e.g., unlocked door notifications)
• eliminate third-party application use of Bluelink
• have all doors, hood and lift gate closed
• have all lights off
• limit occasions car wakes up such as walking by with FOB in pocket or using Bluelink
• load test battery if voltage has fallen repeatedly below 12 V or a concern it doesn’t hold a charge
• if all above doesn’t work then bring in for servicing

please suggest additions or changes and the IoniqPedia5 will be updated. Thanks.

Looks like I’ve got one addition. The frunk light does not go off even with the hood down near as I can tell . I disconnected the wire at the easy to access plug on the right side of the latch. I had waited about five minutes and it never timed out. Sure, it does sound like a very small draw but overtime? We will see.

 

[GrantL]

Looks like I’ve got one addition. The frunk light does not go off even with the hood down near as I can tell . I disconnected the wire at the easy to access plug on the right side of the latch. I had waited about five minutes and it never timed out. Sure, it does sound like a very small draw but overtime? We will see.

It does turn off, but I believe it turns off after 15-30 minutes or so. When cover is closed the light turns off as well.

 

[Boltnomore]

Not up to date. See the discussion starter or latest update post below for the current summary.

Thought to summarize the discussions on 12 V battery drainage. Please point out mistakes.

• the 12 V battery is lower capacity than expected in a similar size class ICE because it doesn’t have to crank an engine. This means it is more susceptible to being drained and fatally damaged
• The 12 V is a 60 Ah battery. However only 50% of the charge is available from a lead acid battery so the effective total power delivery (capacity) is 30 Ah whereas a similar size ICE would have a 45 Ah capacity. That's a third less power capacity than we are used to with an ICE.
• the I5 wakes and uses the 12 V when sending Bluelink notifications, doors open and plugged in accessories communicate with it (e.g., wireless Air Play devices trying to communicate with phones). This uses the 12 V.
• Some think shipping of cars for a long time across oceans resulted in battery draw and damage to the 12 V.
• the traction battery recharges the 12 V if the SOC is greater than 35% and the battery voltage approaches 12.1 V. It would be better if charging occurred at 12.3 V than so low to critical. Car tries 10 times to lift voltage and then stops until reset when car is driven. One poster notes their car charges when below 35 % SOC.
• the 12 V won’t recharge with the lift gate open
• the front USB powers for longer when car is off than other ports and accessories plugged in to it will use power
• The 12 V sockets do not provide power when car is off
• OBD scanners will draw power while car is off (please correct if wrong), unsure of battery monitors if they draw power while off. We love our tech devices but they use power
• lights left on will draw power
• operating power lift gate more than 5 times with car off is a huge power draw
• having car in Accessories mode is a major power draw
• there are some reports of parasitic power drain by the head unit and charging door
• a portable charge that many use is a NOCO GB40
• The 12 V battery will be damaged if the charge is 12 V or less. This is why the car charges the battery when approaching 12.1 V
• if a battery is drained very low it can be fatally damaged, especially in freezing conditions. A battery load test is recommended to insure continuing drain issues aren’t because of damage

Bottom line when not driving

• there is less power capacity (about 1/3 less) in the 12 V than we expect from a similar ICE
• its easier therefore to draw the charge down to damage the battery
• For caution, keep SOC above 35%
• remove any plugged in accessories from from USB, data port and battery
• limit need of car to send Bluelink notifications when off (e.g., lock doors)
• have all doors and lift gate closed
• have all lights off
• limit occasions car wakes up such walking by with FOB in pocket
• load test battery if a concern it doesn’t hold a charge

please suggest additions or changes and this and the IoniqPedia5 will be updated. Thanks.

It does turn off, but I believe it turns off after 15-30 minutes or so. When cover is closed the light turns off as well.

it definitely does not go off when the frunk cover closes. I waited the five minutes after I put the hood down and that didn’t do it either. I think however, it probably goes off when the doors are locked but they’re not always locked in my garage. The light is not important, especially with everybody having a cell phone and a flashlight on that. It will remain disconnected just because it only adds to the issue.

 

[Hitstirrer]

Just spotted this old thread after the latest new posts so I went back to read what the 'chatter' had revealed. It turned out to be a discussion on previous observations and reports, along with one or two suggestions on potential solutions such as installing a larger or different chemistry battery.

It is helpful to pass on this kind of information so that others can understand the nuances of ICE v BEV 12v DC battery issues. The biggest difference is, of course, that an ICE system will use a huge draw when cranking the engine over to start up, but quickly replace that lost power when the alternator kicks in to produce a huge current and refill the battery rapidly.

But a BEV uses a tiny amount of power on startup so that the car can then economise on normal recharging over a longer period. It does that by engaging its DC to DC converter to draw power from the traction battery to recharge the 12v battery. When the car is switched on this process continues.

However, there is another large difference in cars. Quite apart from the obvious drains caused by operator error such as lights left on and doors left open, in an ICE car there is usually zero drain to flatten the 12v battery when parked. In a BEV there are often tiny drains ongoing as they communicate with the mother ship and respond to interrogation by the owner. Some drivers have signed up for sophisticated energy supplies where they pass over responsibility to the power supplier to charge the car when cheap rates are available.

This means that the car is 'polled' every half hour to pass data to the energy company so that they can manage the agreed contract. So the car is awakened constantly and numerous such events will each draw a small amount of power. Over time the 12v battery will be showing a lower state of charge but will still be sufficient to start a BEV as little power is needed. Eventually, that kind of pattern will result in the battery being sufficiently drained that it won't even open the car's door. This kind of event rarely happens overnight. They are usually the result of a few days or even weeks of gradual voltage reduction that happens unnoticed by the driver.

Which brings me to my point.

Some eight years ago I experienced a series of weird and bizarre glitches in my early Leaf 24. These were tracked down to the 12v DC battery having a low state of charge. After a few such events over a month or so, I asked for advice in a forum. This resulted in a similar thread discussion as the one here. However, the forum had a resident expert in lead/acid battery tech. Apart from explaining that the standard ICE car battery was the wrong type for use in a BEV he suggested that BEV owners should take some responsibility for maintaining the 12v aux battery in good condition rather than ignoring it until it failed.

He recommended that I should buy a modern 'Smart' mains battery charger and attach it to the car's 12v DC battery at least once per month, and leave it on overnight. Also to buy a cheap 12v monitor of the type that plugs into the 12v accessory socket and keep an eye on it when driving the car. A bells and whistles addition would be to fit a Bluetooth unit to the 12v battery which could report all discharge and charge sessions to a phone and allow the user to monitor the state of the car's 12v battery remotely.

All of the Leaf 24 issues went away and in my three subsequent BEVs I have had no issues of this nature ever since.

I fully realise that such action should not be necessary. But life is too short to become stressed when there is a low-impact solution that can be started and operated at the same time as the normal monthly tyre kicking and screenwash bottle filling.

The OEM should be designing their systems better in the first place. And to be fair, most have now adjusted their algorithms to reduce the number of 'car awakening' sessions that are allowed daily as well as to increase the frequency of DC to DC sessions during parked-up periods. So that this long-standing problem may soon be behind us.

Meanwhile, I can only recommend that all BEV drivers should pay much closer attention to the condition of their 12v aux battery than they had to do in their ICE car. And to begin a regular preventative maintenance programme to ensure that the 12v battery is kept in good health.

This thread is useful information to explain why and how the issue is so prevalent. But my experience is that with a small amount of personal responsibility, it can be greatly reduced.

 

[lmcancu]

in an ICE car there is usually zero drain to flatten the 12v battery when parked

Although, your article is spot on in all other aspects (I regulary maintain my 12V battery with a smart charger), this is definitely not true of modern high end ICE cars with all the bells and whistles, etc. ICE cars tend to have much bigger batteries, and the alternator is sized accordingly, so there is less chance of battery going flat as a result. Also the larger starting draw helps to reduce sulfation which can happen more easily in BEV car since the draw is so small.

 

[Hitstirrer]

Although, your article is spot on in all other aspects (I regulary maintain my 12V battery with a smart charger), this is definitely not true of modern high end ICE cars with all the bells and whistles, etc. ICE cars tend to have much bigger batteries, and the alternator is sized accordingly, so there is less chance of battery going flat as a result. Also the larger starting draw helps to reduce sulfation which can happen more easily in BEV car since the draw is so small.

I'm happy to acknowledge that modern ICE cars - especially expensive ones - have similar systems to a BEV that maintain communication with a server and can present a small drain on the 12v battery even when parked. My comment was really referring to the massive worldwide fleet of basic ICE cars which are still overwhelmingly pretty dumb regarding such systems as they basically go completely offline when parked. And as you say, the combination of a larger lead/acid battery and alternators that supply huge amounts of recharging power immediately after starting up, then even modern smarter ICE cars manage to keep the 12v battery fully charged.

As long as BEV owners acknowledge that they now can't ignore the humble 12v DC battery, as they have done for years when driving an older tech ICE, then they may avoid the often reported issues of low voltage causing bizarre and unexpected problems.