Hrm as someone with a car on order who decided the eco pack wasn’t necessary for the mild (southern) UK, this does concern me. I thought it might mean reduced range in cold temps (as using resistive heating on the battery, not via heat pump), but not absence of battery heating completely, even under charge.

Out of interest can you select winter mode on/off? Could that have an effect?


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I can confirm that there is no Winter Mode in the settings, so that wont work I'm afraid. It could be that there is an issue with the car, it has been booked into the dealer to be checked - but to be honest the original sales person couldn't be less interested in the issue, and I have a feeling that service will say that they cant find anything (I do hope I am wrong).

I asked followed up with Hyundai directly and asked what would happen next if the dealer finds nothing wrong. Here is their response:

"If there are no issues with your vehicle, we do have to advise different chargers can be specified for different vehicles."

Well, I have tried 10 different Ionity chargers after long journeys with low state of charge, and every time (since Oct) the charging speed has not went above 50Kwh.

As I say, hopefully it is an issue and can be sorted, as I really love the car otherwise. I am just not sure that I have too much faith in getting anywhere.

 

Ok, so quick summary, I purchased an Ioniq 5 Ultimate RWD (no tech or eco pack) in October last year.

I do a load of motorway miles and thought that although the range would take a hit during the winter, it wouldn't matter too much as I would be able to get a "fast-ish" charge. I do understand that the battery temperature needs to be warm to get a fast charge. Disclaimer: I also have a Tesla Model 3 LR - so this not my first electric car.

So, having had the car since October, I have used it to travel from Glasgow to Manchester and (which I do a weekly basis) a few times and have been nothing but shocked by the charging speeds. At fast chargers (between 150-350Kwh), I am lucky to see 50Kwh charging rates.

My last visit to Gretna saw me arriving with 20% SoC having driven for 2 hours. The charge rate started at 50Kwh for 10-15 mins, and I was expecting it to increase as the charge heats the batteries. However, it reduced to 29 Kwh for the remaining hour which I had to wait as I needed the charge to get home.

Now the temperature outside was 5 degrees C, I wasn't expecting the massive 220Kwh charging which I have seen others get, but was more hoping for around the 100+ like the cars around me (one of which was an EV6).

So I am guessing, (but who knows), that since I don't have the battery heater as part of the Eco Pack that fast charging is an option that's not available to me. I don't recall being told by the dealer that you can only get good charge speeds if you have the heater or you choose not to live in Scotland.

Today I wrote to Hyundai to check and make check and see if they could confirm that the "No Eco Pack" cars have absolutely no battery heating, and here is their response:

"Hi Iain, the battery heating system can be added as an optional extra to the Ultimate trim as part of the Eco Pack."

So, sounds like no heating at all, which as far as I can see means 1 of 2 things:

1. The car is a 'summer' car if you need fast charging - not what I would expect for £45k
2. There is something wrong with my specific car

I am looking for some advice from other Ioniq 5 owners without the Eco Pack who have used rapid chargers - are you having the same issues?

My car is booked into the dealer, but I can almost guarantee their response. The original sales person couldn't really seem less interested in the issue - but then the sale is done, so why would he care.

Sorry for the long ramble, but I find it infuriating that I spent so much money on what seems to be a dud.

I have the ECO pack but nobody including Hyundai technical can tell me how it works!
So at the moment you can feel smug as you didn’t spend the £1400 ish on the option.
My heater has never switched its self on!

 

I have been questioning Hyundai UK since before Christmas. This is what I have received so far:

The Eco Pack on IONIQ 5 Ultimate, is an optional pack made up of the Heat Pump and the Battery heater. The Heat Pump uses heat generated by the car, inc the battery, to heat up the cabin which helps saving some the High Voltage Capacity to be used for driving the car.

Battery Heater ensures the battery is at right temperature during cooler month to optimise the charging and its performance ( this is mainly beneficial for DC charging )

There is no official data to quantify the exact benefits of those as too many variables come into play.

Here is a brief description of the operation of the AC Heat Pump and Battery PTC Heater fitted to IONIQ 5.
Heat Pump
Description and Operation
Heat pump is integrated into the vehicle’s air conditioning system and is configured to enable heating of the passenger compartment by circulating the flow of refrigerant through an inner condenser.
This process minimizes battery consumption when compared to sole use of the PTC heater which increases the drive distance for EV.

Electric air conditioner compressor : It is operated by an electric motor and converts the gas refrigerant of low-temperature/low-pressure into the gas of high-temperature/high-pressure and sends it to the indoor condenser.

2.	Evaporator : It cools air by using the vaporizing effect of the refrigerant.

3.	EXV : In heating mode, it converts the liquid refrigerant of high-temperature/high-pressure into the low-temperature/low-pressure to facilitate phase change.

4.	R/D water-cooled condenser : It expands the liquid refrigerant of low-temperature/low-pressure into the gaseous refrigerant of low-temperature/low-pressure.

5.	3-way valve : It controls the refrigerant to move it to the accumulator.

6.	Accumulator : It separates the gas/liquid of the refrigerant so that only the gaseous refrigerant can flow into the compressor.

Battery PTC Heater
Description and Operation
High Voltage Battery Heater System is installed to keep the battery pack at the optimum temperature to increase efficiency.
If the internal temperature of the high voltage pack assembly decreases drastically, this may freeze the battery or decrease the output voltage. In order to prevent these issues, the high voltage battery heater installed on the side of the module is automatically controlled, according to the internal temperature of the battery.

If the internal temperature of the high voltage pack assembly decreases drastically, this may freeze the battery or decrease the output voltage. In order to prevent these issues, the high voltage battery heater installed on the side of the module is automatically controlled, according to the internal temperature of the battery.
When the high voltage heater relay is ON, high voltage is supplied to each high voltage battery heater. The high voltage battery heater relay is controlled by BMS ECU.
Even when the ignition switch is turned off, the VCU operates the BMS ECU regularly to prevent the high voltage battery from freezing.
When the temperature becomes normal so that the high voltage battery heater does not need to work anymore, BMS ECU prepares for the next operation time, and the time will be received via CAN communication of VCU.

Further to this they inferred the Heat pump has no cooling function, other than it will cool the battery be scavenging heat from it for the cabin.

On 1 Feb I asked :

a. In the UK, is it only cars with the ECO pack that have the Battery heater?

b. How is the operation of the Battery Heater linked to the option to switch Winter Mode on or off? The statement above infers it is all just automatic.

No response yet, despite my weekly nags.

 

Hi Chris, do you use Rapid chargers at all? If so do you get anywhere around the 100+Kwh. I need to use them based on the motorway miles I am doing, but its adding over an hour onto a 3 hour journey at present! Not ideal.

But to keep positive about it, you are right - at least I didn't spend that £1400!!

 

I’m just struggling with how you’re not getting anywhere near speeds that you see from e.g. YouTube vids etc. (unless they all have loaded cars with Eco packs!). I can understand it lagging initially but once the battery warms up >100 kWh should be possible at 5 °C. If you need the eco pack to achieve that, I would genuinely consider all the advertising false.

Hyundai doesn’t qualify the claims on their site:
“Go from 10% to 80% SOC in less than 18 minutes when connected to a 350 kW ultra-fast charger!” No asterisk or anything.

And the Eco pack is only an option on Ultimate trims, right? I’ve seen reports of SEL trims fast charging, and they won’t have the Eco pack… maybe it is your car?

One last thought: you haven’t limited the current somehow in setting, have you? Some cars can do that (not sure about Ioniq 5)


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Can you meet up with someone to do a side by side comparison?

Interesting that you say you do not even have the ‘Winter Mode’ option. However, it is thought this only operates at -5 deg C.

 

I would be totally delighted to meet someone locally to compare. The response from my request to Hyundai re the heater is here:

I asked: "I have the Ioniq 5 Ultimate RWD with no Eco pack. Does this car have any form of battery heating in place?"

Hyundai Response: "The Battery Heating System can be added as an optional extra to the Ultimate trim as part of Eco Pack"

I guess there is still some ambiguity in the statement, but I am reading it as "No there is not any battery heating unless you have Eco Pack".

However, your point about people with a lower spec getting better speeds is indeed interesting...as I say I would be happy to meet anyone locally for a comparison.

 

I would be totally delighted to meet someone locally to compare.

Where is ‘locally’?

 

PS: I have bought the V-Gate Pro ODB thingy and have car scanner so I am going to make my own video (of questionable quality I suspect) which will show my experience with the car charging.

 

I agree, a comparison with an otherwise similar car with and without Eco pack would be great. Hyundai saying there’s no active battery heating without an Eco pack is quite concerning…

If it’s only ultimates with Eco packs that can reach >100 kW speeds in winter in the UK, then that is firstly really disappointing, secondly something they should make explicitly clear, and thirdly I think quite a solid case for false advertising on the charging speed.

What %age of Ioniq 5s in the UK have Eco packs? From reading this forum maybe 10-20%? Probably a biased sample.


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Good question re the % of cars with/without eco pack.

I think most of the videos I have seen are people with either the P45 or the Ultimate with Tech & Eco.

 

From reading other threads, at current the battery warmer doesn't actually work, even in those cars fitted with it, and Hyundai said a software update later this year will fix this issue. So if you see other IONIQ 5 cars charge more quickly than yours, then the battery warmer isn't the reason for it.

Also, all that the battery warmer is meant to do in Winter Mode, is automatically bring the battery temp from -5⁰C to +5⁰C, so if the ambient temperature where you were while charging didn't go down to -5⁰C, the battery warmer wouldn't have worked even if you had this feature, and even if the promised (but not yet available) software fix had been applied.

And last, I don't that the difference between -5⁰C and +5⁰C can explain the gap between 29-50kW and the promised 350kW (on a fast Ionity DC super charger).

What I don't fully understand is how the battery is meant to get warmer when using a DC charger, on cars not equipped with the optional battery warmer - only from the chemical reaction?

I don't know why owners arent getting the faster charging, but I think that the battery warmer is a bit if a red herring. And I don't believe that you'll see 350kW as soon as the ambient temperature reaches 22⁰C.

My advice would to get the dealer to install any BMS software update that are available for the car, in the hope that one if these updates will fix the slow charging issue.

(The battery warmer might come in handy once Hyundai implement the pre-warming when navigating to a DC charger, but this feature isn't currently available on the IONIQ 5)

 

And I don't believe that you'll see 350kW as soon as the ambient temperature reaches 22⁰C.

Not ambient temperature, but minimum temperature of the battery pack is what matters in Ioniq 5.

Very cold battery pack will limit the initial charging rate down to 40-70 kW. As battery warms up, the charging speed increases. Maximum 220 kW (not 350kW) is available when battery pack reached 25 C.

 

Ok, so quick summary, I purchased an Ioniq 5 Ultimate RWD (no tech or eco pack) in October last year.

I do a load of motorway miles and thought that although the range would take a hit during the winter, it wouldn't matter too much as I would be able to get a "fast-ish" charge. I do understand that the battery temperature needs to be warm to get a fast charge. Disclaimer: I also have a Tesla Model 3 LR - so this not my first electric car.

So, having had the car since October, I have used it to travel from Glasgow to Manchester and (which I do a weekly basis) a few times and have been nothing but shocked by the charging speeds. At fast chargers (between 150-350Kwh), I am lucky to see 50Kwh charging rates.

My last visit to Gretna saw me arriving with 20% SoC having driven for 2 hours. The charge rate started at 50Kwh for 10-15 mins, and I was expecting it to increase as the charge heats the batteries. However, it reduced to 29 Kwh for the remaining hour which I had to wait as I needed the charge to get home.

Now the temperature outside was 5 degrees C, I wasn't expecting the massive 220Kwh charging which I have seen others get, but was more hoping for around the 100+ like the cars around me (one of which was an EV6).

So I am guessing, (but who knows), that since I don't have the battery heater as part of the Eco Pack that fast charging is an option that's not available to me. I don't recall being told by the dealer that you can only get good charge speeds if you have the heater or you choose not to live in Scotland.

Today I wrote to Hyundai to check and make check and see if they could confirm that the "No Eco Pack" cars have absolutely no battery heating, and here is their response:

"Hi Iain, the battery heating system can be added as an optional extra to the Ultimate trim as part of the Eco Pack."

So, sounds like no heating at all, which as far as I can see means 1 of 2 things:

1. The car is a 'summer' car if you need fast charging - not what I would expect for £45k
2. There is something wrong with my specific car

I am looking for some advice from other Ioniq 5 owners without the Eco Pack who have used rapid chargers - are you having the same issues?

My car is booked into the dealer, but I can almost guarantee their response. The original sales person couldn't really seem less interested in the issue - but then the sale is done, so why would he care.

Sorry for the long ramble, but I find it infuriating that I spent so much money on what seems to be a dud.

I had my I5 delivered on Monday - AWD Ultimate, Tech but no Eco. I'd already registered for chargemyhyundai so zipped off to Ionity Chippenham with my daughter to show off the amazing charging speeds. Long story short; my demo fell very flat indeed with a steady 38Kw. I even swapped chargers and got exactly the same speed. A Polestar next to me was drawing 100Kw. Ambient was 11degrees C, I'd only driven for 25 minutes and the SOC was about 70% at the start of the session. I was pretty shocked at the performance.

 

Something is rotten in the State of Charge....

The whole fast charging issue just doesn't look right....

 

I’ve had my car since September (boggo Premium, no packs) and so far I have only ever charged it from home.

All this is going to change tomorrow though as I’m taking my son and one of his friends to see some godawful rapper in Leeds. While they are having their brains melted I’m going off to the Ionities at Leeds Skelton Lake services to give them a try (living the dream). I expect to get there on about 40% after a couple of hours of driving, outside temps about 5°C. I’m not expecting anything over 200 but I’d quite like to see something over 100. It better not be 38 like the poster above. That’s a joke.

 

I did more or less this journey last weekend. 1 hour 20 minute drive to Leeds Skelton Lake with temperature around 5°c.

I have a 73 RWD Premium. Charging started at 38 and didn't get any higher on the Ionity charger. FWIW, I may have a very early UK model as I've got automatic pop out for handles.

I often tend to blame the charger, but substandard speeds happen so regularly on various charging networks in my experience, I'm seriously suspecting the common factor is the car itself.

 

This is starting to sound like I’m going to be disappointed tomorrow. Are we saying the non-eco pack cars are doing no battery heating whatsoever in any circumstances? I thought battery heating was one of the reasons for poor economy figures at the start of each journey as the car devotes power to heating the battery?

 

Would be good to see how you get on with this.

 

The rate decrease definitely weird, Kyle from out of spec review also have a ioniq 5 with battery heater, than the charging rate also decrease during a coldgate charge test.

I think they can update the charging curve with a update. Hopefully they dont waiy until next model year

 

As Mikael48 said, if you have a battery heater, charging speed should increase over the session. All of us in Canada are mad right now because when you're starting from -30, without any pre-heating in advance of reaching the charger, you're just blowing money and wasting time as your battery slowly heats from -30 to +25 and you finally get, say, 200kW charging when you hit 75%. This seems like a much more significant problem that you guys have.

 

If your in Glasgow perhaps you could meet up with James. I'm not sure if he is in this board or not but you could message him through YouTube

https://youtube.com/c/LemonTeaLeaf

 

I’m still not clear on whether those of us without the heat pump get any sort of battery heating apart from as a side effect of charging? If we don’t then we are hardly ever going to see decent rapid charging speeds surely?

 

Some of the info in the forum indicate that heat pump is only used to cool (regarding battery pack), and that heating (battery pack) is done by old style PTC heater (like a electrical kettle)

 

Most tests has been done with cars equipped with battery heater, indeed.

Charging speed has been confirmed by several owners using obd2 dongle, speed is limited by the minimum temperature of the battery pack (not ambient temp):
-5°C to 5°C: 50 kW
5-10°C: 65 kW
10-15°C: 73 kW
15-20°C: 115 kW
20-24°C: 180 kW
25°C and above: 215 kW

Additionally, charging speed is temperamental, with sudden ups and downs for several minutes, then suddenly resuming at higher rate. The charging curve is never identical even if charging station is functioning properly, which adds additional confusion.

Obd2 dongle helps tremendously, the charging speed can be anticipated well in advance while driving to a fast charger, and you won't blame the DC charger

 

Most tests has been done with cars equipped with battery heater, indeed.

Charging speed has been confirmed by several owners using obd2 dongle, speed is limited by the minimum temperature of the battery pack (not ambient temp):
-5°C to 5°C: 50 kW
5-10°C: 65 kW
10-15°C: 73 kW
15-20°C: 115 kW
20-24°C: 180 kW
25°C and above: 215 kW

Charging will never get faster than that if battery is colder than above.

Additionally, charging speed is temperamental, with sudden ups and downs for several minutes, then suddenly resuming at higher rate. The charging curve is never identical even if charging station is functioning properly, which adds additional confusion.

Obd2 dongle helps tremendously, the charging speed can be anticipated well in advance while driving to a fast charger.

So for cars equipped with a battery warmer, there's no way to test if it is actually working during DC charging? I.e. the battery will warm-up anyway as result of the charging, and there's no indication whether the battery warmer is actually activated?

 

It sounds like cars without the eco back, and therefore any of the additional heating gubbins, are totally at the mercy of whatever the ambient temperature is when it comes to the speed of the rapid charging.

In the UK it’s the P45s and whichever Ultimates have optioned the eco pack (the option is not available on SE and Premium trim as I understand it) who are in with a chance of getting the mythical 20-80% in 18 minutes and the rest of us (probably the majority of owners) get the shaft.

I’m off to have a look at the Hyundai UK website to see if any of this is mentioned.

 

This is all I could find about it - I guess “can” and “up to” has them covered legally, but it’s pretty poor.

 

Using the Bluelink Energy Consumption feature in "Charging/Energy" in the Home Screen where it shows Driving/Electronic Devices/Climate Control /Battery Care I have never seen the Battery Care show any power used.
This may not be scientific but it is a starting point to check if the battery heater is working at all.

 

Battery care could be about caring for the 12v battery
Battery care could be about keeping the battery pack above -5 degrees
(know not - just pointing out )

 

My gut feeling is that there are two separate issues here.

The first, is that the battery warmer doesn't actually work (either it does not work as planned, or it does not work at all).

The second is that there's an issue with fast DC charging, which cannot be explained simply by blaming it on the non-operative battery warmer. As others pointed out, Hyundai boast 'up to 220kW' for all IONIQ 5 cars, I.e. not just those cars fitted with a battery warmer.

 

I agree with both of these points, I have never had any evidence of Winter Mode working even when at 3C.
I have complained to my supplying dealer regarding charging speeds, they have put forward many excuses; temperature, the condition of the charger etc.
I have never seen speeds above 100KW at an Ionity 350KWh charger! At the same charging location I have seen a Polestar charging at 148KW, this seems to cut no ice with Hyundai.
They clearly have an issue but seem unable/unwilling to address it!
Getting any useful information out of Hyundai is nigh on impossible!

 

Quite right. As far as I can see, for me to be able to get 220kw charging I’ve got to rock up with the battery at around 20% and with its temperature at 25° or above, and crucially there is nothing I can do in terms of how I drive or configure the car to achieve this - I am entirely dependent upon external air temperature. That’s ridiculous.

 

My battery care is at 0 - but for sure I have something heating my battery pack when charging.
Regarding winter mode -my understanding is that it only kicks in when below -5 degrees

 

The charger is heating you battery when you are at a charger. It is known as charging loss!

 

I've got one without a battery heater (72kw battery) & have seen above 50kw. On a 120kw charger with 8c ambient I was able to get the following:

SOC 25%, Battery min temp 9c : 62kw
SOC 27%, battery min temp 10c: 69kw
SOC 33%, battery min temp 11c: 58kw
SOC 44%, battery min temp 14c: 49kw
SOC 49%, battery min temp 15c, 120kw (charger max)
SOC 50%, battery min temp 15c, 91kw
SOC 59%, battery min temp 17c, 82kw
SOC 72%, battery min temp 20c, 120kw (charger max)

I stopped charging shortly after this, it did start dropping speed, but I had what I needed to so stopped.

The battery did warm up as part of the charge, I've seen it warm up on a 50kw charger, however slower than at higher currents.

On the charge above it took 35 mins from the start to end.

Hopefully this is useful and carscanner is great for getting more info on what's going on. Min temp seems to be what determines charge speed in winter.

 

What you say agrees with Bjorn Nyland's experience. He did a YouTube video where he plotted the charge rate against battery min temperature and noted a couple of points at which the rate changed dramatically. I've been searching his channel, but cannot find which it was unfortunately. But we can see from your data above that the battery temperature increases during charging - which is to be expected - just feel your phone while it's on a fast charger, it also warms significantly.