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Dead 12V battery and some lessons learned

57K views 133 replies 51 participants last post by  Coastal  
#1 ·
So I had the dreaded dead 12V battery today. I went past my Ioniq to go out via the garage to check the mail mid day today and knew something was up because the single red strip of light underneath the brake lights/Ioniq 5 lettering was lit. I was like hmm, that seems weird and unusual. Tried to open the car door and no response, so as I suspected, dead 12V. Needed to use the mechanical key to open the door, pop the hood, and get the 12V jump start battery from the glove box. Connected the 12V jump starter to the battery and started hearing some clicking noises, I suspect I could have disconnected the jump start battery then but I went ahead and turned on the car first. Oh, and the alarm started honking at me as soon as the 12V was live, not sure if closing the driver's door would have prevented it but just be aware so you don't startle yourself.

Not entirely sure what caused it to go dead. I realized I left the lights on (not in auto like normal) as it was raining but bright enough for auto lights not to be on yesterday when I drove it. I assume those turn themselves off though like on most modern cars. Other than that, I have a hardwired dash cam but it has a low voltage cutoff switch and an OBD dongle that does stay on even when car is off. Would love to know why the 12V died but not sure I'll ever know.

One more thing, I wasn't getting any response from the lock/unlock button on the passenger side door handle this evening, but the driver's side was fine. I suspected it might need a reset, so I disconnected the negative terminal on the 12V battery when i got home, reconnected it and worked like a charm afterwards.

Any ideas what drained my 12V battery? Anyone else had similar issues with the lock/unlock button after a dead 12V?
 
#4 ·
So I had the dreaded dead 12V battery today. I went past my Ioniq to go out via the garage to check the mail mid day today and knew something was up because the single red strip of light underneath the brake lights/Ioniq 5 lettering was lit. I was like hmm, that seems weird and unusual. Tried to open the car door and no response, so as I suspected, dead 12V. Needed to use the mechanical key to open the door, pop the hood, and get the 12V jump start battery from the glove box. Connected the 12V jump starter to the battery and started hearing some clicking noises, I suspect I could have disconnected the jump start battery then but I went ahead and turned on the car first. Oh, and the alarm started honking at me as soon as the 12V was live, not sure if closing the driver's door would have prevented it but just be aware so you don't startle yourself.

Not entirely sure what caused it to go dead. I realized I left the lights on (not in auto like normal) as it was raining but bright enough for auto lights not to be on yesterday when I drove it. I assume those turn themselves off though like on most modern cars. Other than that, I have a hardwired dash cam but it has a low voltage cutoff switch and an OBD dongle that does stay on even when car is off. Would love to know why the 12V died but not sure I'll ever know.

One more thing, I wasn't getting any response from the lock/unlock button on the passenger side door handle this evening, but the driver's side was fine. I suspected it might need a reset, so I disconnected the negative terminal on the 12V battery when i got home, reconnected it and worked like a charm afterwards.

Any ideas what drained my 12V battery? Anyone else had similar issues with the lock/unlock button after a dead 12V?
Have you got a BM2 battery monitor fitted? Useful to have as it will help to show you what happened.
 
#133 ·
I got the BM2 battery monitor. Very easy for anyone to install: Just loosen the two battery cables, then slip the BM2 connectors underneth them, then press cables down and tighten. Download the app to your phone (there's a QR Code in the documentation), and follow the easy directions.
It not only provides battery's DC voltage and charge percentafe, but even provides extra, useful tests (optional to use).
 
#5 ·
I have a PHEV but experienced basically an identical situation with needing to use the manual lock and then having the alarm go off when it started to come back to life.
Best conclusion I was able to get is I was using my 12v battery for too much without it getting any recharging back into it. Most days the gas engine doesn't turn on in my car, so the alternator doesn't get to cycle the battery. And I'm using heated seats / cell phone charger / etc - what I came to find out is that is un off the 12v and the traction battery is essentially just for driving. Don't crucify me if I have any part of that mixed up- but that's what I've come to understand.

Fix? I installed a battery tender on the 12v and I hook it up to the wall charger once a month or so for a few hours for peace of mind.
 
#6 ·
Man, the irony of legacy auto technology.... Here we have a big old 77kwh battery pack (or 56? kwh if you have the smaller pack) full of juice, and then everything is run by the ol' 12V accessory battery (probably lead acid.. although I didn't check before I started writing this response). I've read of many other EV owners having their cars stuck because the 12V battery died. It seemed crazy to me that the manufacturers didn't just use a DC-DC converter to power everything off the main pack until I remembered that a DC-DC converter costs hundreds of $'s (or more) whereas a standard lead acid battery costs $10's of dollars.

One thing I might look into is replacing my 12V battery (assuming it's lead acid) with an LiFePO4 battery which will hold charge a LOT longer, LAST a LOT longer (battery lifespan), and have a lot better C-rate in cases where I need to jump start someone else's car.
 
#7 ·
Man, the irony of legacy auto technology.... Here we have a big old 77kwh battery pack (or 56? kwh if you have the smaller pack) full of juice, and then everything is run by the ol' 12V accessory battery (probably lead acid.. although I didn't check before I started writing this response). I've read of many other EV owners having their cars stuck because the 12V battery died. It seemed crazy to me that the manufacturers didn't just use a DC-DC converter to power everything off the main pack until I remembered that a DC-DC converter costs hundreds of $'s (or more) whereas a standard lead acid battery costs $10's of dollars.

One thing I might look into is replacing my 12V battery (assuming it's lead acid) with an LiFePO4 battery which will hold charge a LOT longer, LAST a LOT longer (battery lifespan), and have a lot better C-rate in cases where I need to jump start someone else's car.
But there is not really a problem with the current 12v battery. Battery failures identified so far can be attributed to a specific defect with the car, such as the charging door, or with the operator such as using the infotainment system for a while without being in Ready of Utility mode. The car does regularly top up the 12v battery from the HV battery.
 
#13 ·
This company may have the correct size for Ioniq 5. The link is for Ioniq classic 12-volt battery.
This LiFePO4 battery will be damaged if charged and stored in freezing temperatures.
If you read product specification:
Charge Temperature: 0 to 45 ÂşC ( 32 to 113 Âş F )
Recommended Storage Temperature: -5 to 35 ÂşC ( 23 to 95 Âş F )

Ioniq 5 doesn't know it and will push many amps after start, regardless of battery temperature. Moreover, the BMS cutoff voltage is 14.8V, Ioniq5 sometimes may charge battery with higher voltage.
 
#21 ·
The 800v is completely disconnected to prevent battery drain which used to happen on early tesla's. This is just bad engineering from Hyundai, if they are doing an update they need to reconnect the 800v battery to keep the 12v battery topped up, you can't even listen to the radio for mare than 2 minutes without the full system enabled so how do they think an OTA update would consume less power!
 
#26 ·
So I had the dreaded dead 12V battery today. I went past my Ioniq to go out via the garage to check the mail mid day today and knew something was up because the single red strip of light underneath the brake lights/Ioniq 5 lettering was lit. I was like hmm, that seems weird and unusual. Tried to open the car door and no response, so as I suspected, dead 12V. Needed to use the mechanical key to open the door, pop the hood, and get the 12V jump start battery from the glove box. Connected the 12V jump starter to the battery and started hearing some clicking noises, I suspect I could have disconnected the jump start battery then but I went ahead and turned on the car first. Oh, and the alarm started honking at me as soon as the 12V was live, not sure if closing the driver's door would have prevented it but just be aware so you don't startle yourself.

Not entirely sure what caused it to go dead. I realized I left the lights on (not in auto like normal) as it was raining but bright enough for auto lights not to be on yesterday when I drove it. I assume those turn themselves off though like on most modern cars. Other than that, I have a hardwired dash cam but it has a low voltage cutoff switch and an OBD dongle that does stay on even when car is off. Would love to know why the 12V died but not sure I'll ever know.

One more thing, I wasn't getting any response from the lock/unlock button on the passenger side door handle this evening, but the driver's side was fine. I suspected it might need a reset, so I disconnected the negative terminal on the 12V battery when i got home, reconnected it and worked like a charm afterwards.

Any ideas what drained my 12V battery? Anyone else had similar issues with the lock/unlock button after a dead 12V?
Thanks for the insights here.
I'm interested in that 12v jumpstart battery. Any chance you can post a product link?

Many thanks!
 
#27 ·
I have this one or similar, likely overpowered for the Ioniq 5 but I had it from my ICE SUV days. There are a billion models of these, they also serve as a battery bank in an emergency (not that I don’t have 12 other of those because I love USB battery banks, but this one is alway always in the car at least.

Just remember to check the charge level every few months. Mine went from 96% to 62% when I jumped my Ioniq 5 likely because I left it plugged to the battery for so long.

 
#32 ·
What lesson for me? (Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ltd AWD 2022MY bought new in Feb 2022 in US).
I use Bluelink to check vehicle status occasionally and log in and out of the phone app. I store my key fobs about 40 feet from the garaged I5, but inside a wood frame house. I also notice the dash blue light (apparent in US models) blinking occasionally when the I5 is off and locked. I notice small drops (~1%) in high voltage battery SOC when the car sits in the garage for a couple of days, suggesting small power drains. It's been said that the 12v battery status line in the Bluelink phone app is not accurate/reliable and that using an external 12v battery charger routinely is unnecessary.
Questions that arise:
Does the Bluelink cause a draw on the 12v battery continue even when the phone app is logged out? Do key fobs draw 12v power when within distance range of an "off" I5? How is the high voltage battery "isolated" when the car is off but the dash light indicating 12v battery recharge is blinking? If 12v battery is charged when I5 is "on", utility mode, or "off" but being occasionally charged (as indicated by the blinking dash light), wouldn't trickle charge or battery monitoring be unnecessary (e.g. problems of 12v draining to dead have been remedied in this model)? What threshold triggers the Bluelink battery status light to go into failure of false positive (voltage drop, false negative)?
Image
 
#33 ·
What lesson for me? (Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ltd AWD 2022MY bought new in Feb 2022 in US).
I use Bluelink to check vehicle status occasionally and log in and out of the phone app. I store my key fobs about 40 feet from the garaged I5, but inside a wood frame house. I also notice the dash blue light (apparent in US models) blinking occasionally when the I5 is off and locked. I notice small drops (~1%) in high voltage battery SOC when the car sits in the garage for a couple of days, suggesting small power drains. It's been said that the 12v battery status line in the Bluelink phone app is not accurate/reliable and that using an external 12v battery charger routinely is unnecessary.
Questions that arise:
Does the Bluelink cause a draw on the 12v battery continue even when the phone app is logged out? Do key fobs draw 12v power when within distance range of an "off" I5? How is the high voltage battery "isolated" when the car is off but the dash light indicating 12v battery recharge is blinking? If 12v battery is charged when I5 is "on", utility mode, or "off" but being occasionally charged (as indicated by the blinking dash light), wouldn't trickle charge or battery monitoring be unnecessary (e.g. problems of 12v draining to dead have been remedied in this model)? What threshold triggers the Bluelink battery status light to go into failure of false positive (voltage drop, false negative)?
View attachment 41244
The Bluelink app works when outside of Bluetooth range of the car so it must be using a data connection. There is no provision that I have seen for having the car connect to your home WiFi (WLAN for you non-US people). So the car must be using a cellular/mobile connection for its data and that means that something in the car must be awake and powered on regardless of what you are doing on your phone. So just having the Bluelink app on your phone open seems to me to be an unlikely cause of drain on the 12v battery.

That said, there have been aspersions cast that activating some car functions via the Bluelink app can cause the car to drain the 12v battery. If true, then that can only point to software issues in the car itself that Hyundai should address.

According to the manual, the amber light on the top center of the dash is a warning light. It indicates that even though the car is off the high voltage system is active. As far as I could tell reading the manual, this only happens when the car decides to charge the 12v battery. This light warns a mechanic or technician that the orange cables and other components in the high voltage system are energized even though the car is off. That light is never illuminated when the car is on because it is expected that there is high voltage power present when the car is on.
 
#42 ·
So I had the dreaded dead 12V battery today. I went past my Ioniq to go out via the garage to check the mail mid day today and knew something was up because the single red strip of light underneath the brake lights/Ioniq 5 lettering was lit. I was like hmm, that seems weird and unusual. Tried to open the car door and no response, so as I suspected, dead 12V. Needed to use the mechanical key to open the door, pop the hood, and get the 12V jump start battery from the glove box. Connected the 12V jump starter to the battery and started hearing some clicking noises, I suspect I could have disconnected the jump start battery then but I went ahead and turned on the car first. Oh, and the alarm started honking at me as soon as the 12V was live, not sure if closing the driver's door would have prevented it but just be aware so you don't startle yourself.

Not entirely sure what caused it to go dead. I realized I left the lights on (not in auto like normal) as it was raining but bright enough for auto lights not to be on yesterday when I drove it. I assume those turn themselves off though like on most modern cars. Other than that, I have a hardwired dash cam but it has a low voltage cutoff switch and an OBD dongle that does stay on even when car is off. Would love to know why the 12V died but not sure I'll ever know.

One more thing, I wasn't getting any response from the lock/unlock button on the passenger side door handle this evening, but the driver's side was fine. I suspected it might need a reset, so I disconnected the negative terminal on the 12V battery when i got home, reconnected it and worked like a charm afterwards.

Any ideas what drained my 12V battery? Anyone else had similar issues with the lock/unlock button after a dead 12V?
Your problem is for 99% sure the already known charge door problem. The charge door just touched your switch at the inside, which causes a opening/closing sequence at high frequency which result in a drained 12V battery. The solution, until Hyundai solves this problem, is to stick some felt pads on the inside so that the charge door does not touch the switch anymore, see video (in German), but you will understand.
 
#44 ·
Where is the best place to store a jump starter with LiPo battery chemistry? Wouldn't storing it in the car be a fire hazard, as the storing temperatures for these are typically less than 40 degrees celsius? Does the frunk get that hot on a hot summer day? Glove compartment can get quite hot. Not storing in the car kind of defeats the purpose however.
I purchased the Shell SH916WC from Costco

Battery Type: Lithium-Polymer
Battery Capacity: 16000mAh, 59.2Wh
Operating Temperature: - 20ÂşC ~ 60ÂşC
Storage Temperature: - 20ÂşC ~ 40ÂşC
Charging Temperature: 0ÂşC ~ 45ÂşC
 
#45 ·
Hi
I had the 12v fail a week ago and after restarting took the car to the dealer for investigation.
They advised me a software update has been published by Hundai for cars in a specific VIN range. Unfortunately I was unable to get a copy of the service update document
At no time was I contacted by Hyundai advising me the update was available, which I think is poor customer service, considering they have my VIN and contact details
 
#47 ·
So I had the dreaded dead 12V battery today. I went past my Ioniq to go out via the garage to check the mail mid day today and knew something was up because the single red strip of light underneath the brake lights/Ioniq 5 lettering was lit. I was like hmm, that seems weird and unusual. Tried to open the car door and no response, so as I suspected, dead 12V. Needed to use the mechanical key to open the door, pop the hood, and get the 12V jump start battery from the glove box. Connected the 12V jump starter to the battery and started hearing some clicking noises, I suspect I could have disconnected the jump start battery then but I went ahead and turned on the car first. Oh, and the alarm started honking at me as soon as the 12V was live, not sure if closing the driver's door would have prevented it but just be aware so you don't startle yourself.

Not entirely sure what caused it to go dead. I realized I left the lights on (not in auto like normal) as it was raining but bright enough for auto lights not to be on yesterday when I drove it. I assume those turn themselves off though like on most modern cars. Other than that, I have a hardwired dash cam but it has a low voltage cutoff switch and an OBD dongle that does stay on even when car is off. Would love to know why the 12V died but not sure I'll ever know.

One more thing, I wasn't getting any response from the lock/unlock button on the passenger side door handle this evening, but the driver's side was fine. I suspected it might need a reset, so I disconnected the negative terminal on the 12V battery when i got home, reconnected it and worked like a charm afterwards.

Any ideas what drained my 12V battery? Anyone else had similar issues with the lock/unlock button after a dead 12V?
I've had this same issue on my 2020 Ioniq Electric. Both times the 12V battery died was right after the car was charged to about 95% on my 110V plug in my garage. I think there may be a software glitch that either drains the 12V during the charging of the main battery if the cycle isn't completed, or the 12V only charges during the very last phase of the charging cycle of the main battery, or for some reason a command is issued that prevents the 12V from recharging while driving. Somewhat to my surprise, Hyundai replaced the battery under warranty, which suggests it is a significant problem.
 
#50 ·
The 12V battery on my Ionic 5 SE AWD (US) keeps getting drained by a strong "vampire" current, until it dies. I purchased the car in March 2022, had no issues with the auxiliary battery until July.
A few times a week I would see the yellow light on the dashboard turn on, signaling a top-off of the 12V battery.I read about the dead battery issue reported by a number of users, so I bought a battery charger pack to jump start the battery in case I needed it.
Good thing I did, because in July I found the battery dead. Pretty much every day, unless I drove for more than 30 min, I had to open the driver door with the mechanical key, open the frunk,jump start the battery, hop in the driver's seat to turn on the main battery, disconnect the jump-start battery, close the frunk and get ready to drive.

After a week of torture I managed to book a service to inspect the problem.I had to leave the car for 3 days, as going through the diagnostics, charging and discharging the battery took some time.
In the end, the dealer was unable to identify the problem, but they installed a SW update (Control Shifter) and probably also the BMS update, both of which can only be done bythe dealer.

I kept my car updated on the infotainment side (May 2022 was the last update), but I doubt that this has anything to do with my current problem.
After I picked up the car, I noticed that the yellow light would go on much more often than before, probably 10 times a day, and almost every time I entered the car. At first I though that this was a good thing, as the large battery was taking care of tapping off the little one, to prevent me from being stranded. Fast forward 3 months, I noticed that the yellow light would no longer show up.
One week later I got a message from the Bluelink app saying that my battery was low. 58%. Yes, the main battery was at 58% (I never go below 30%) which I did not think it meant "low" battery charge.
But next morning my 12V battery was dead. I jump-started the battery, the main battery was still at 58%, so clearly the low-battery message was triggered by the dying 12V battery. But Bluelink seems to mix up the two.

This time the situation was even more extreme than in July. Even a fully charged 12 V battery (4 hours with a good charger) would die within the day, with the car locked, turned off, no use of Bluelink to check status etc.
I do have the BM2 voltage monitor installed, that many users suggested, but it does not help me because when the battery dies all the logged data disappears, so I haveno information about when the battery died.
I purchased a current meter, discovering that with the car turned off the vampire current from the 12V battery to the car ranges between 3 and 8 Amps, way more than the 50 mA used by the car circuitry when nothing is on. Strangely, after I disconnect the "-" cable from the car and reconnect, the current level changes, to 4 amps, 6 Amps, 5 Amps, 7 Amps after hearing various clicking of relays in the fuse box.
Having read about the misaligned charger port door that can cause high current when the flap touches the open/close button, I suspected that that could be the problem. But no, regardless of whether the flap is open or closed or kept slightly open to avoid touching the button, the leak remains substantial.

I tried all other tricks explained in this forum, refreshing the status on the Bluelink app, turning on the A/C to "unlock" something in the battery management system, staying away from opening the charge door via BlueLink app or voice command, that in some cases seem to leave something use a lot of current when the car is idle. But nothing works.
I brought tthe car to another dealership, closer to my home. They ran the car diagnostics, which reported that everything was working and the 12V battery was still in reasonable conditions, despite the numerous full-discharge cycles. As the problem kept happening every day, I brought the car a second time, for a full-day inspection. This time they confirmed that there is a problem, but they were unable to identify it.

Now I am scheduled for another service, lasting probably 2-3 days, to figure out what causes the problem by removing all fuses one by one. Whilst I am waiting for the service date, I tried myself extracting and re-inserting all the fuses in the main fuse box, close the the battery where the current meter is connected so that I can detect changes in current leaking. The only fuse (40A) that makes the current go down to 1-2A is labeled B+ (not sure what it is for).
Next step would be to do the same thing with the fuses next to the steering column, but then I cannot easily see the display of the current meter attached to the battery, in the trunk.
I am running out of patience and ideas on how to identify the problem. But it is probably not a simple issue, like a light stuck on, or a fan running for no reason, as every time I disconnect and reconnect the 12 V battery the current changes to a different stable level,accompanied by clicking of relays that indicate that different units are turning on or off. More likely to be a power management software problem.
The fact that the yellow light of the main battery management system never shows up again, whichever voltage the 12 V battery is at (13V, 12.5V, 12V, 11V, 4V...) makes me think that the battery management system itself may be faulty.

I am reporting this in case others encountered the same issue, and were unable to fix the problem using solutions presented in the past on this forum.
If the next service manages to find the cause, I will be happy to report, in case it may help others.

I love almost everything in my Iniq 5. but this battery problem is driving me nuts...
 
#52 ·
The 12V battery on my Ionic 5 SE AWD (US) keeps getting drained by a strong "vampire" current, until it dies. I purchased the car in March 2022, had no issues with the auxiliary battery until July.
You did have issues, but a new battery can put up with abuse for a couple months before it starts failing.
 
#53 · (Edited)
>The only fuse (40A) that makes the current go down to 1-2A is labeled B+ (not sure what it is for).
@sicconi With my I5 finally due in, possibly Dec, I signed up for maintenance again, service information. (BTW, sign up as public, not independent repair facility if you are a DIY EVGearhead owner like myself, it is less expensive.)

If you want to try to look around a bit more, no idea if I can help you find the load, send your VIN to me on conversation. Can you say more about the 40A fuse, which fuse box, maybe snap a picture of it. "B+" generally refers to a bus, probably the heavy black line at the top of these schematics. There are several 40A fuses, here are a couple of examples (pgs 1, 3):
Image
Image
 
#55 ·
Also taking current measurements with the hood open and key FOB next to car will skew the results. A forum member
Ixlr8 has taken reliable measurements of a good working Ioniq 5. Also based on his measurements, important to keep the SOC above 15%


"Preliminary observations:
Vehicle shut off, nothing plugged into obd2 or usb.
Soc 60%
Immediately after locking doors amperage drain was 5.7A
At 2 min 3.2A
At 8 min 0.035A
At 1.08 hours 0.009 amps or 9mA.
12v battery at 1.08 hour measurement was 12.67v
12.67v x 0.009 mA = 0.114 W or 114 mW.

I have data logging Amperage readings for over 12 hours to learn how the vehicle drains the 12v.

At 14 hours, touching dot on door handle adds 110mA to drain for 2-3 seconds then back to 9mA.

Accessing Bluelink app from Android phone make amperage spike to 7.2A. Then it takes the same time period to get own to 9mA sleep, 1.08 hours. "

"Side note, I can confirm from my own experience, monitoring and logging, the HV battery will not charge 12v when soc is below 15%. Therefore, if 12v battery has been ran down through heavy accessory use and you are at < 15% soc your 12v battery will run flat unless you turn on your car, place it in Ready mode. Again, I have confirmed this from my own monitoring of 12v battery and amparage drain in this scenario"
 
#76 ·
Also taking current measurements with the hood open and key FOB next to car will skew the results. A forum member
Ixlr8 has taken reliable measurements of a good working Ioniq 5. Also based on his measurements, important to keep the SOC above 15%


"Preliminary observations:
Vehicle shut off, nothing plugged into obd2 or usb.
Soc 60%
Immediately after locking doors amperage drain was 5.7A
At 2 min 3.2A
At 8 min 0.035A
At 1.08 hours 0.009 amps or 9mA.
12v battery at 1.08 hour measurement was 12.67v
12.67v x 0.009 mA = 0.114 W or 114 mW.

I have data logging Amperage readings for over 12 hours to learn how the vehicle drains the 12v.

At 14 hours, touching dot on door handle adds 110mA to drain for 2-3 seconds then back to 9mA.

Accessing Bluelink app from Android phone make amperage spike to 7.2A. Then it takes the same time period to get own to 9mA sleep, 1.08 hours. "

"Side note, I can confirm from my own experience, monitoring and logging, the HV battery will not charge 12v when soc is below 15%. Therefore, if 12v battery has been ran down through heavy accessory use and you are at < 15% soc your 12v battery will run flat unless you turn on your car, place it in Ready mode. Again, I have confirmed this from my own monitoring of 12v battery and amparage drain in this scenario"
This is very interesting. So currents of 3-6 A after parking and locking the car are "normal" for about 10 min, before the system to a more comforting 9-35 mA level.
I wonder what keeps the electronics use so much power for so long. Even connections with Bluelink to update status of the car should not last longer than a few seconds.
 
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