2022 I5 SE AWD. Bought new May 2022. 22K miles. No issues with 12V battery until last night. To borrow a line from "The Princess Bride" it was not dead, just mostly dead. Car seemed to start up fine, but then dash displayed "12V battery voltage low. Stop safely". But car would not shift into gear. I had noticed once or twice in the past few weeks I was prompted to touch the fob to the starter button to start the car (but assumed I had to fob in a bag that was blocking the signal). Anyone experience anything similar ?
12V Battery Issue
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US ICCU Recall (aka 12V battery failure issue) and Tesla Supercharger access and adapters. Please do not create duplicate threads on these topics. Links: ICCU Thread | Supercharger Thread | Adapter Thread
Mdmif256
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45 Posts
What problems would use of this battery bring?
It has been discussed already if you use search button
In my assistance trough the US dealerships.
About 97% of 12V battery issues are related to aftermarket products being installed incorrectly or blue link app has been merged with other companies like grid suppliers to pull too many syncing.
Less than 3% are related to the 12V battery premature reduction in SOH because of QA or 12V battery mishandling.
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710 Posts
i am also very interested in a lithium replacement(or any other). i have seen several posts on why the ohmmu battery is not suited, or will not work. BUT, i have also seen posts where it has been installed, and i have yet to see any posts on it failing. vs a whole pile of posts on the regular battery failing. however, the car is still relitively new, so i would expect aftermarket will soon have an alternative. having been in the parts business for a long time, i have seen several instances where a new car has a high failure part that eventually the aftermarket makes a replacement. one instance is the bmw n62 coolant transfer pipe. it had a high failure rate, and was a killer expensive job, only genuine parts were available for a long time. then someone invented a collapsible pipe, which made the job a whole lot less, and the aftermarket scooped them up. another was the "thumbwheels" on the e23. these controlled the a/c climate control, and had a really high failure rate. then, someone discovered that only a certain electrical part failed, and it was easy to repair. 4hp22 transmissions were a nightmare, gm, jaguar, slaab, bmw and volvo all took a bath on this transmission, then a fairly easy repair of one part made them a thing of the past. and, again, it was the aftermarket that discovered it. the few aftermarket batteries that are available now proves that the market should expand in the future
Making different chemistry like LFP or other that use dedicated BMS to take care of cells in this aftermarket solution for 12V battery is quite complex. Here are requirements from engineering standpoint.
This type of battery with dedicated BMS need to have ability for CAN ot LIN communications with onboard DC-DC converter.
Onboard DC-DC converter has to be designed in software side and wiring harness side to work with this type of 12V battery.
Aftermarket 12V battery has to pass manufacturers requirements to he married to the vehicle module network.
If all of this is existing, onboard DC-DC converter has to be master and 12V battery BMS has to become slave to the onboard DC-DC converter.
Ohmmu 12V battery has ability to go to limp mode >>>>examples
Stop charging and not letting know onboard DC-DC converter about this.
Stop discharging and not letting know onboard DC-DC converter.
Completely disable charging and discharging not letting know onboard DC-DC converter.
Ohmmu doesn't have dedicated heater pad assistance in quite cold weather to prevent battery from entering lock out.
It has no ability to fight with extreme hot temperatures under the hood when air conditioning is running in stop and go traffic. There is no aluminum heat sinks or coolant lines to manage this type of situations.
It has no ability to talk to vehicle module network or onboard DC-DC converter module to take necessary actions if some of problems arise from mentioned above to take full responsibility of maintaining low DC 12V power.
Onboard DC-DC converters by nature produce electronic noise if there is no 12V battery in network to act as buffer ( most 12V electronic dosent like this type of electronic noise if 12V battery is suddenly disconnected from network because of BMS has decided to shut down for some reason).
And most importantly all 12V electronics including modules and networking has to be designed with this in mind to handle this type of scenarios, or onboard DC-DC converter has be equipped with necessary filters for electric noise.
Are there ways for aftermarket solutions, yes definitely but it is not going to be accomplished by cutting corners like Ohmmu provider.
Umm... you can start counting 12 volt battery threads on this and every other EV forum. And that is just the tip of the iceberg as what, maybe only 1% of owners post to a forum? Compare EV forum 12 volt posts to ICE 12 volt posts (spoiler, huge difference).
Not enough evidence? Lets think logically. 12 volt batteries have a long history of working reliably right? In ICE vehicles with always on alternators that is. Now design a system without alternators and for sound engineering and safety reasons, a step down DC/DC converter from 240-800 volts to 14 volts constant charging current can not be done. Instead, an intermittent charging system is designed with a trigger voltage when a low battery voltage is found. Guess what, every time the voltage drops, lead acid batteries suffer incremental damage until they fail prematurely.
Is that a battery problem? Or a car systems/design issue?
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I'm with you.
I don't really understand the the details like many but it is clearly a design problem and, again not understanding the details, it seems unacceptablethat this is not fixed going into the 4th year.
Illustrating my ignorance, it blows my mind that you're sitting on this high tech HUGE battery with an incredibly high tech electron system and the system fails because an old fashion 12v battery can't hold or be recharged as well, as a 1940's car.
I don't really understand the the details like many but it is clearly a design problem and, again not understanding the details, it seems unacceptablethat this is not fixed going into the 4th year.
Illustrating my ignorance, it blows my mind that you're sitting on this high tech HUGE battery with an incredibly high tech electron system and the system fails because an old fashion 12v battery can't hold or be recharged as well, as a 1940's car.
Onboard ICCU software is calibrated for Onboard users. Any aftermarket additions that use 12V battery when vehicle is stationary are not accounted.
There is specified logic after so many times in 24 hours to recharge 12V battery.
If this is exceeding calibration values, it will go to preserve conditions and stop recharging 12V battery.
If this is happening or 12V battery is going bad no Onboard DC-DC converter or software will make this fixed.
Any time 12V battery drops to single digits voltage it will need immediate check under load for SOH ( and replaced if necessary)
If you have more questions please feel free to ask and 9 will try to detangle misconception about people believing because there is huge HV DC pack that 12V battery should have unlimited power when vehicle is stationary.
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789 Posts
Thank you.
You have just described what currently happens. As many of us already know.
But what you haven't done is explain why the OEMs appear to be incapable of designing a system that takes ongoing note of unexpected power drains - that may be outside their initial calibration estimates - and react accordingly to cope with that unexpected condition.
Why do they just abrogate all responsibility at that stage and allow the DC/DC converter to go to 'preserve' conditions, cease power transfer, and allow the 12v battery to be destroyed by constant low voltages?
That is the question that remains unanswered. Because to us laymen that appears to be a really simple amendment to the initial program that calls for DC/DC action. But for some reason, they do not do that and to make matters worse deliberately withdraw sessions of DC/DC transfer so that failure is inevitable.
Read on the website. Totally compatible.
I can't find any posts about the failure of an aftermarket lithium battery on an ioniq5. Can you point me to the information? I'd be interested to read.
Reason behind is liability insurance.
If 12V battery was ignored for SOH it could make 12V battery to start melting or goes on fire 🔥.
I do agree that there should be option to enable more active management but policy makers will never agree to this option because of interference with sensors that calculate 12V battery internall resistance and SOH degradation.
Running aftermarket accessories when vehicle is stationary is all over the board on power consumption and each owner case that is trying to keep them alive even when vehicle is trying to enter deep sleep for conserving energy in EV.
I hope this answers your question on OEM not implementing this on EV.
Great line! Better if you say 1950's car though - cars from earlier than about 1955 had 6 volt systems. Same battery lead acid tech of course just more cells now.
I'm not here to keep tracks on failure.
I'm here to explain why LFP chemistry and Ohmmu approach is bad idea.
But you are welcome to make experiments and expose this battery to extreme hot scenarios and extreme cold weather scenarios and find out yourself, how well it does.
I have personally tried to get in contact with Ohmmu company, but in exchange had crickets for my questions.
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Yes. You described the "why" nicely.
It still doesn't explain why there hasn't been a remedy, again, going into the 4th year. Too complicated?
Maybe they should include a 12v battery pack as standard equipment. 🤣
It still doesn't explain why there hasn't been a remedy, again, going into the 4th year. Too complicated?
Maybe they should include a 12v battery pack as standard equipment. 🤣
Did you mean SOC? In any case, alternator equipped cars provide constant voltage to the battery. That is not forced charging, not the way batteries work. Never heard of lead acid battery fires. Now explosions, yes, but related to gas buildup and an outside spark.
Edit: Sorry, you may not have been discussing lead acid batteries. ?
Your post #22 above says there's info that was discussed already. That's what I mean. I don't want you to keep track of failures. Lol.
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789 Posts
I agree. Even my 1959 TR3A, which uses an older dynamo and regulator system, can fully charge the 12v battery and then apply a float voltage open-ended as the regulator does its job. The 12v battery can tolerate and benefit from such a float voltage long-term. No dangerous issues. An ICE car using a modern alternator has also been able to do this for decades without causing any dangerous problems.
Yet for some reason EV designers are unable to both successfully control when a DC/DC converter operates to keep the 12v charged whatever load happens to be there at that time, but they are also unable to afterwards regulate that voltage supply to maintain a float level when the 12v battery has been charged, as an alternator does.
Why is ancient tech able to do that? Yet modern systems are unable to emulate it.
There have been some that have installed LIon batteries across several forums but in reality installations have been recent. I have not seen failure posts but it is too early. It may take some time to show if improper charging will take any toll
I'm curious about how I could use several third-party apps simultaneously and check the Tesla app, which constantly connects to the car, multiple times a day without the 12V battery dying. This was possible with a 2021 model equipped with a standard 12V battery. It seems Tesla addressed and resolved a similar issue in their early days, and I hope Hyundai can find a solution as well.
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