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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Charged up my 22 month old 38 kWh Ioniq all day yesterday to 80% SOC, at 6A off my solar panels. All was fine. Unplugged the car, locked it all up around 5 pm. This morning the car's almost dead; door unlock worked, but power-on asked me to prod the Start button using the key fob, as it couldn't detect the key! And it wouldn't start anyway.

12V battery read 8.6V, so something's drained it overnight. No idea what. Not moisture as temps have been 20-30C ish!

Had a long chat with helpful guy at Hyundai UK, also local dealer who is booked up at the mo, also I have holiday coming, result is car's going in for warranty check on Aug 20th. Where they may/may not find there's a problem!

Car is under 5-year warranty, so I can call Hyundai Assistance any time, 0800 1980 2733, and they'll sendout a tecchy to inspect/advise etc. Might have to do this as a way to get the battery replaced PDQ if it's completely toast. Dealer is overloaded at the mo' is the impression I get.

Present battery is Delkor CMF40L-BCI rated 40 Ah, CCA 354A, conventional lead-acid. Terminals are UK-sized posts, a bit larger than the Japanese posts. Did a lot of hunting on tayna.co.uk and there's nothing that's a perfect replacement but of better quality, closest is Yuasa HJ-S34B20L or the L-A variant, these are AGM rated 35 Ah. But this has the Japanese posts so will need adapter to "grow" these by about 4.5mm diameter. I'd cut some sheet copper, myself. Or machine brass sleeves with a slot down the side.

There's a fair bit of space around where the battery goes, but again I can't see anything remotely suitable in AGM, even with the baseplate being altered to take a larger battery.

Speaking with the Hyundai guy, I've explained the problem, and that I'd really like to change the battery completely for something much better, but am worried this may affect the warranty. He's reassured me that if I did change the battery, the only part of the warrant that gets voided is the 12V battery itself. So the important other stuff, inverders, mains charger, filler-flap actuator, ... etc is still covered. Good news!

I've had a hunt for a LifePo4 battery drop-in replacement. I really like the Antigravity offerings, except their smallest car version is a bit too large! I really like their monitoring app add-on, also the built-in reserve feature where if the battery has switched itself off at around 9V to protect againat full discharge, you can press a button to do a quick override to let you get going! This should be enough to get the contactors going, and let the HV battery recharge it all.

There's an Ultramax LI40-12 that's he correct length, about 34mm wider, slightly lower, and I think this can be made to fit with modest alteration to the baseplate, so I'm happy with the size. This also has a low-voltage cutout to prevent full discharge, but I don't see any recovery/override button, and I don't know if their BMS is compatible with a 12V lead-acid car-charger voltage offering, so have emailed them to find out.

I've got the ref number of my call to H-UK, so I'm going to keep in contact & see what can be done. It simply isn't good enough to just stuff yet another small-capacity 12V lead-acid in every couple of years. FWWI I tried using my Li-Ion battery-booster pack, but that didn't have enough oomph to both recharge the drained 12V and operate the contactors, so am a bit disappointed with that, as that was my plan-A recovery method!

I need something quick in the meantime, which doesn't involve huge cost (Lithium replacement), and which doesn't alter the car in any way, so I'm going to get a decent-sized booster battery, maybe lead-acid, maybe LifePo4, which will sit alongside the existing battery. I'll wire it in parallel, so it will be charged up from the 12-14V supply via a beefy diode (0.7V voltage drop, not a problem), so it gets charged when the car's at a higher voltage than the battery is, but cannot discharge at all. Then when the Delkor fails, I'll lift the bonnet & connect a jump-lead over. There's actually quite a lot of space in there for another battery!

Ultimately I might end up with a substantially better/larger battery & the mountings changed about, or I may decide to stick with my spare-backup & make a nice Mosfet-gate so I don't have to connect a jump lead, instead just press a button inside the car to switch the spare battery int action. More news later as things develop; for now I'll be watching it like a hawk to see if I get more phantom drainage! A BM2 Monitor is going on shortly...
 

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Did you actually test the battery to see if it's bad? CCA and Voltage after a full charge? Mine has died twice and both time the battery tested like "new" when charged. If it's OK, charge it up and use it as is, until you find a replacement. My only advice is to lock the car with the fob before charging and always after you exit the car while parked. The both times mine has been dead was when the car was unlocked or locked with the door lock button (not the fob) . That action seems to stop the parasitic drain on the 12V due to "something" in the car, but mine is a '19 28 kW. I do not know if a bigger 12V battery will fix this issue, but worth a try. As an option a low cost Amazon 12V LiPo batter jumper in the car just in case. I do not know if I would wire it directly to the battery. Keep us posted.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Haven't checked out the battery CCA etc, don't have the heavy-duty test kit to do this. Car was locked using fob as always. BM2 monitor is now fitted so will keep an eye on it. My LiPo battery jumper that lives in the car didn't have enough oomph to start the car. Strange, as it's reckoned to start frozen diesel trucks etc no probs.

Exide AGM12-23 21 Ah battery now on order, will be wired in parallel to existing but with diode between the +ve terminals so can charge up but not discharge. If further problems it will get the jumper wire to engage it. Car check now postponed until 2nd yr service in early September. So I have quite a few weeks to see how it all pans out!
 

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I've had to jump mine 3 times now, always at home in the garage while plugged in to the Level 2. The last time it happened I had the dealer do battery and leakage tests, but after being restored at home first by my smart charger the battery tested out fine. The leakage test showed 40 mA draw with the fob out of the car, 40 mA with spikes to 60 mA when the fob was left inside it. The dealer said the spec is 65 mA draw, so in both cases it was all within spec. Mathematically it takes 25.6 days to drain a 40Ah battery at 65mA, so at the very least we should easily get 3.5 weeks of leaving the car unattended. (My car is a pre-Bluelink model, the spec's probably different when you're keeping a cellular modem alive.)

Sometimes I think some module or other in the car just isn't fully powering off when it's supposed to, but good luck determining the culprit unless you wire up the whole car to log everything at all times. They should make these cars with a contactor that does a hard power off of everything 12V that's not part of the central locking system, and a DC-DC converter that puts out 13.8V at all times the car is On and Ready like a good old fashioned alternator used to do in a fossil car. They'd have a lot fewer problems...
 
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Car has now been switched off for a few hours after charging all day around 14.2 volts appx. BM2 monitor reports battery fine at 13.31V, so I'll see what it says tomorrow morning.

In the meantime I've ordered some hefty diodes, and some hefty Mosfets, to make the 300A 20V switch I need to charge my Aux battery and activate from inside the car itself with a push-button. I'll use a push-to-make button, so I'll be holding it down to engage it, and that should be enough to boost the HV stuff into life & energise the contactors. I have a small 12V meter permanently plugged into the 12V aux in te front console, so it will be easy to see what's happening.

I'll take some pics & post a circuit diagram when I'm done, should anyone else want to replicate this. At their own risk of course!
 

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Charged up my 22 month old 38 kWh Ioniq all day yesterday to 80% SOC, at 6A off my solar panels. All was fine. Unplugged the car, locked it all up around 5 pm. This morning the car's almost dead; door unlock worked, but power-on asked me to prod the Start button using the key fob, as it couldn't detect the key! And it wouldn't start anyway.

12V battery read 8.6V, so something's drained it overnight. No idea what. Not moisture as temps have been 20-30C ish!

Had a long chat with helpful guy at Hyundai UK, also local dealer who is booked up at the mo, also I have holiday coming, result is car's going in for warranty check on Aug 20th. Where they may/may not find there's a problem!

Car is under 5-year warranty, so I can call Hyundai Assistance any time, 0800 1980 2733, and they'll sendout a tecchy to inspect/advise etc. Might have to do this as a way to get the battery replaced PDQ if it's completely toast. Dealer is overloaded at the mo' is the impression I get.

Present battery is Delkor CMF40L-BCI rated 40 Ah, CCA 354A, conventional lead-acid. Terminals are UK-sized posts, a bit larger than the Japanese posts. Did a lot of hunting on tayna.co.uk and there's nothing that's a perfect replacement but of better quality, closest is Yuasa HJ-S34B20L or the L-A variant, these are AGM rated 35 Ah. But this has the Japanese posts so will need adapter to "grow" these by about 4.5mm diameter. I'd cut some sheet copper, myself. Or machine brass sleeves with a slot down the side.

There's a fair bit of space around where the battery goes, but again I can't see anything remotely suitable in AGM, even with the baseplate being altered to take a larger battery.

Speaking with the Hyundai guy, I've explained the problem, and that I'd really like to change the battery completely for something much better, but am worried this may affect the warranty. He's reassured me that if I did change the battery, the only part of the warrant that gets voided is the 12V battery itself. So the important other stuff, inverders, mains charger, filler-flap actuator, ... etc is still covered. Good news!

I've had a hunt for a LifePo4 battery drop-in replacement. I really like the Antigravity offerings, except their smallest car version is a bit too large! I really like their monitoring app add-on, also the built-in reserve feature where if the battery has switched itself off at around 9V to protect againat full discharge, you can press a button to do a quick override to let you get going! This should be enough to get the contactors going, and let the HV battery recharge it all.

There's an Ultramax LI40-12 that's he correct length, about 34mm wider, slightly lower, and I think this can be made to fit with modest alteration to the baseplate, so I'm happy with the size. This also has a low-voltage cutout to prevent full discharge, but I don't see any recovery/override button, and I don't know if their BMS is compatible with a 12V lead-acid car-charger voltage offering, so have emailed them to find out.

I've got the ref number of my call to H-UK, so I'm going to keep in contact & see what can be done. It simply isn't good enough to just stuff yet another small-capacity 12V lead-acid in every couple of years. FWWI I tried using my Li-Ion battery-booster pack, but that didn't have enough oomph to both recharge the drained 12V and operate the contactors, so am a bit disappointed with that, as that was my plan-A recovery method!

I need something quick in the meantime, which doesn't involve huge cost (Lithium replacement), and which doesn't alter the car in any way, so I'm going to get a decent-sized booster battery, maybe lead-acid, maybe LifePo4, which will sit alongside the existing battery. I'll wire it in parallel, so it will be charged up from the 12-14V supply via a beefy diode (0.7V voltage drop, not a problem), so it gets charged when the car's at a higher voltage than the battery is, but cannot discharge at all. Then when the Delkor fails, I'll lift the bonnet & connect a jump-lead over. There's actually quite a lot of space in there for another battery!

Ultimately I might end up with a substantially better/larger battery & the mountings changed about, or I may decide to stick with my spare-backup & make a nice Mosfet-gate so I don't have to connect a jump lead, instead just press a button inside the car to switch the spare battery int action. More news later as things develop; for now I'll be watching it like a hawk to see if I get more phantom drainage! A BM2 Monitor is going on shortly...
Had the very same problem with the 12v battery draining for no apparent reason. This happened on about 5 or 6 occasions and I was glad I had a remote booster to get started rather than have to call out someone.
The cure that seems to have solved the problem- about 4 weeks ago I disconnect the 12v negative terminal and charged the battery with a trickle charger overnight, reconnected and all has been well since.
Maybe it was something to do with the system rebooting ?
All set ups e.g favourites etc were retained which I thought may be “lost” by undoing the 12v battery so that was an added bonus !
 

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Haven't checked out the battery CCA etc, don't have the heavy-duty test kit to do this. Car was locked using fob as always. BM2 monitor is now fitted so will keep an eye on it. My LiPo battery jumper that lives in the car didn't have enough oomph to start the car. Strange, as it's reckoned to start frozen diesel trucks etc no probs.

Exide AGM12-23 21 Ah battery now on order, will be wired in parallel to existing but with diode between the +ve terminals so can charge up but not discharge. If further problems it will get the jumper wire to engage it. Car check now postponed until 2nd yr service in early September. So I have quite a few weeks to see how it all pans out!
I am in the States and went to a Walmart to have mine checked. It took minutes. I do remember the CCA was even better than the battery rating. My Hyundai dealer recommended this as it was in the middle of Covid late Spring and they did not have a loaner to use, if I had the car hauled in. Is there a local auto parts store or chain store that does that in your country? It's typically a free service. I hate to see you do all that you have done and it's not battery related, it's a Parasitic drain off the car. But more battery will provide more time for the drain, I guess. I did spend the $30 on a battery CCA tester as well, in case it happens again. Its been all good except for one time, I locked with the door switch and not the Fob. Dead the next day.......
 

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Car has now been switched off for a few hours after charging all day around 14.2 volts appx. BM2 monitor reports battery fine at 13.31V, so I'll see what it says tomorrow morning.

In the meantime I've ordered some hefty diodes, and some hefty Mosfets, to make the 300A 20V switch I need to charge my Aux battery and activate from inside the car itself with a push-button. I'll use a push-to-make button, so I'll be holding it down to engage it, and that should be enough to boost the HV stuff into life & energise the contactors. I have a small 12V meter permanently plugged into the 12V aux in te front console, so it will be easy to see what's happening.

I'll take some pics & post a circuit diagram when I'm done, should anyone else want to replicate this. At their own risk of course!
My car is now over 4 years old, and so far (touching wood furiously) I have had no issues at all with my 12v battery even when the car has been unused for nearly a month. I have an OBD ii reader permanently connected to the car for about 6 months now and had no issues caused by that.



Put simply if there is no drain on the battery then it will not discharge, however, if there is a vampire drain then the battery will discharge at a rate dependant on the current drawn, and will go flat in a set time. Replacing with a battery twice the capacity will not solve the problem but just mean it will now take twice as long to go flat. Your solution of an aux battery is a sophisticated way of papering over the cracks and getting the car to start but does not solve the route of the problem, a vampire drain. ;)
 

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I've had this a couple of times on 38kwh Ioniq. First time recovery came out and jumped it, second time I trickle charged the battery.

I suspect this is a software bug that leaves something running and kills the battery. It doesn't take long to flatten as it is so small.

I've checked the 12v battery voltage whilst the car is charging and can see that the 12v battery was also charging, even where the car was switched off. Both times the battery went flat was when it wasn't plugged in charging.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
...Your solution of an aux battery is a sophisticated way of papering over the cracks and getting the car to start but does not solve the route of the problem, a vampire drain. ;)
Absolutely agree. Trouble is, quite a lot of Ioniq owners seem to get this ?same? problem. And I have zero confidence in the dealer being able to diagnose the problem. Car has now been perfectly happy for 2 days with no problems. I'm going on holiday soon, the last thing I need is to get stuck somewhere where I don't have all the kit & backup I have at home, hence my decision to install an emergency booster system. This will be a cheap way to get me peace of mind! :)
 
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Absolutely agree. Trouble is, quite a lot of Ioniq owners seem to get this ?same? problem. And I have zero confidence in the dealer being able to diagnose the problem. Car has now been perfectly happy for 2 days with no problems. I'm going on holiday soon, the last thing I need is to get stuck somewhere where I don't have all the kit & backup I have at home, hence my decision to install an emergency booster system. This will be a cheap way to get me peace of mind! :)
I fully acept your reasons for putting in an aux battery and agree it is the best solution in the short term. I hope in the long term the gremlin/s in the Ioniq electrical system will be found and a permanent fix applied.
 

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Didn’t I read on this forum about a guy fitting an Odyssey extreme PC1200LT battery to his car, a slight modification to the carrier was all that it needed to fit, if memory serves :rolleyes:
 

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I was unloading whilst camping the other week. Rear door was open for about 20 mins which drained the battery!

Because I was in the middle of nowhere I had to get green flag out 😬
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Didn’t I read on this forum about a guy fitting an Odyssey extreme PC1200LT battery to his car, a slight modification to the carrier was all that it needed to fit, if memory serves :rolleyes:
Hmm, I missed that one when trawling through tayna site! Looks a v suitable item, it's about 39mm wider, so will need the clamp-bolt moving forwards to fit. But at 42 Ah it's not a huge step-up from the 40 of the existing one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
Ok guys, I've designed my circuit, bought the Exide battery (it fits nicely in engine bay) & got some of the components.
Here's how it's going to work. There will be 2 on/off switches under the bonnet, S1 & S2, one to control each battery.

S1 ON means Main battery (Delkor 40 Ah) runs the car as usual. Vampire drain can flatten it.

S1 OFF means the Main battery can contribute power to the car (if it has any left!), but cannot be recharged. Vampire drain can still flatten it.

S2 ON means Aux battery runs the car as usual (and will recharge the Main battery as well, if it's flat, and if S1 is ON). Vampire drain can flatten it.

S2 OFF means Aux battery (Exide 21 Ah) cannot contribute power to the car, but can be recharged. Aux battery is in Standby mode. Vampire drain cannot flatten it. This behaviour is different to S1 OFF for the Main battery.

So Normal use is S1 ON + S2 OFF. Business as usual, the Exide is float-charged at around 13 to 13.2 V I expect.
AGM batteries like to float at 13.5 max volts, acc to internet.

When Main battery goes flat, unlock car with mechanical key & lift the bonnet. Turn S1 OFF and S2 ON. In either order, doesn't matter. The car will continue to see the Main Battery voltage at the very least. If you turn S2 ON first, then you have both batteries fully active, so the Aux will begin to recharge the Main. You probably don't want this just yet, as the car's not yet back to life! So S1 OFF then S2 ON is the preferred sequence.

At this stage the car should now see a decent 13V from Aux, and should turn on properly. This will cause the HV battery to bring it's own 12V charger into action. You should now see 14.2V on the voltmeter you keep plugged into the Aux console socket. You do have one, don't you?

Once the car's happy, turn S1 ON again. S1 & S2 are ON. You now have both batteries fully active. There will be a surge in demand from the flat Main battery, which is met by a combination of the Aux battery and the car's own charger. After a few moments it should be Ok to turn S2 OFF, and put the Aux battery back into Standby mode.

You now have the car started up OK and the voltage is OK. Turn S2 OFF to put the Aux battery back into Standby mode & protect it against any vampire drain. S1 is ON and S2 is OFF. Normal service is resumed.

Any combination of switches does something valid, and any sequence of changing them cannot do any harm. It's fine to run the car with both batteries active if you want, but any acidental leaving a door open or radio on etc could flatten both batteries in time, so this is at your own risk, and not recommended. In effect you're just fitted a larger battery that is still at danger of a Vampire (or other) high-drain event.

Having both switches OFF is definitely NOT recommended! The Aux battery will be happy, it's doing nothing at all. But the main battery will still supply electricity, with the car seeing about 0.6V less than the battery voltage because of the diode voltage drop across the Mosfet when the Mosfet is OFF. But importantly, the Main battery cannot be recharged when S1 is OFF! This is a deliberate design decision which means that when you turn S2 ON to help start the car, the Aux battery does NOT have to recharge the flat Main battery at the same time!
If yout Main battery is fully charged, you will be able to start the car OK with S1 and S2 OFF, but yo will flatten the Main battery in double-quick time, because it will not be recharged at all! But at least your Aux will be ready to take over when you discover your mistake!

Now all I have to do is work out the mechanicals of how to wire up this gizmo, and get the battery cables safe etc...

FAQ:
Q1) Will this invalidate my warranty?
A1) No. It may invalidate the warranty on the 12V Battery itself, (almost certainly will acc to the dealership!) but Hyundai UK personnel assure me that the rest of the car is still covered as usual. I need to get this in writing. Maybe it's in the fine print somewhere?

Q2) Can I drive the car on the Aux battery alone for a day or so while I desulphate or replace the Main battery?
A2) Yes. Set S2 ON so Aux runs the car as usual. Remove Main battery and desulphate it separately. Switch S1 now does nothing at all, ignore it. Do not try desulphating the battery when it's connected in the car!!! Very likely to clash with the car's own charger topups.

Q3) Can I run the car without the Aux battery in place, maybe while I desulphate that?
A3) Yes. S1 ON uses the Main battery. S2 does nothing when there is no Aux battery connected.

Q3a) If I run without an Aux battery connected, will the Aux battery +12v wire coming from the device be live?
A3a) Yes it will. The device always tries to float-charge the Aux battery, so this wire WILL be live. I will supply a plastic "dummy" pair of terminals so the unused Aux battery connections can be "parked" safely.

Q4) If I turn both battery switches OFF, won't the car see 0V and lose my settings etc?
A4) No. The lowest voltage the car will see with S1 and S2 OFF is the Main battery Volts -0.6V. The Main battery will always try to provide power to the car when it's connected in. It does it better with S1 ON, but this will load up the Aux battery if the car itself isn't yet running.

Q5) Doesn't having this device inserted between the Main battery and the car mean that the car will see less voltage from the battery, and recharge less well?
A5) No. Thanks to the magic of Mosfets, the voltage drop is minuscule. If the car decides to draw 300A from the Main battery, there will be a 0.33V drop from the Mosfets. The 12V battery's own voltage is likely to drop much more than that! At a 30A load, the Mosfet voltage drop is 0.033 Volts. No-one's going to notice this! Charging, or discharging.

Q6) Does this contain any BMS (Battery Management System) or do any De-sulphating?
A6) No. Think of it as a simple pair of switches with a tiny bit of logic to set the behaviour of each.

Q7) This gizmo is monitoring the switches S1 & S2 continually. Won't this be a Vampire drain of its own making?
A7) No. The current drawn for this is 2mA for each battery. At that rate it will take 1 year to drain the 21 Ah Exide Aux battery.

Q8) Can I connect up the battery posts in any order?
A8) Yes. You cannot damage the car. The most it sees is 12-14V from one or other, or both-batteries-in-parallel.

Q9) Can I buy this yet?
A9) No. Still a project under development. I haven't built the prototype yet, and I don't know if the demand for it exists.

Q10) What would it cost if you made it available?
A10) Probably £100. Plus cost of Exide/other Aux battery that you supply.

Q11) Will this fit cars other than the Ioniq 38 kWh?
A11) Probably, but you'll have to check. I'd expect the 28 kWh to fit, but haven't seen under the bonnet of one. Might need different cables to the battery posts, as some are UK sized, some are Japanese (slimmer). Delkor CMF40L-BCI has UK sized posts as fa as I can see.
Details of Battery Post sizes here:
How To Choose The Correct Car Battery
 

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I read a lot on these forums about 12 volt battery issues. Makes you wonder what the engineers were thinking when they designed the 12 V battery system. Well today I was reminded that these issues do not just pertain to hybrid cars. It seems that all modern cars (ICE and hybrid) have become so dependent on the 12 V battery that its ridiculous, comical, and frustrating when they fail.

My niece was driving her (non-Hyundai) ICE car today when her 12 V battery died. The car came to a stop in the middle of a busy intersection and would not start. She is pregnant and the temperature today was 90 deg F (32 deg C). She called my 80 year old dad for help and he tried to jump start her car. The jumper cables must have been old, they got so hot they started to smoke. Her car would not start and my dad burned his hands removing the cables.

Someone else stopped to help and they decided to push the car out of the intersection. But the car was in Park and with no 12 V battery they could not get the car in Neutral. Someone suggested that new cars have a way to get the car into neutral even without power but they could not figure out how to do that. They could not push the car.

She called two tow truck companies to have it towed. Both places she called would not come get her car until tomorrow. They could not get it towed.

They went and got a different set of jumper cables and finally managed to start the car. Then drove to the auto parts store and bought a new 12 V battery. Now to replace the battery. But her car is a Dodge Durango and it's not simple. You have to jack up the car. Take off the front driver side tire. Remove some plastic shielding. Remove a battery bracket (tucked up in a small compartment, where you can barely swing a wrench, held on with a rusted bolt). Remove the wires from the terminals (where you cant swing a wrench). And wiggle and pry the battery out of the tight compartment. Hours later the battery was replaced and the car started.

What a joke! What a disaster. Why do they design modern cars this way? The 12 V battery is so crucial to the operation of the car you would think they would engineer it better.
 

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After what happened to my niece I started to wonder about my Ioniq. How would I put the car in neutral if the 12 V battery was dead? After a little reading today I just learned about the shift-lock-release functionality in modern cars. Its described in the manual but it didnt really make sense to me until I saw this video.


And also, I found this thread to be helpful.

 

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What a joke! What a disaster. Why do they design modern cars this way? The 12 V battery is so crucial to the operation of the car you would think they would engineer it better.
We drained the 12V battery in our Santa Fe on a 3-night camping trip two months back. We'd turned off the interior lighting so it didn't turn on with the doors or tailgate, but apparently used the power liftgate too much and there wasn't enough left to crank the engine. (A mistake we were careful not repeat on last weekend's camping trip.) Our 12V recreation battery was apparently too weak to boost it as well, having kept our phones, tablets, and smartwatches going all weekend. (We'd have used them less if our Seadoos hadn't been banned at this place, a tiny statement buried in the fine print of a side page on their web site.)

There was one other group still around in our area of the campground that was able to give us a boost, but unfortunately the first gentleman to try couldn't figure out how to do it with his Volkswagen SUV, which apparently has the 12V battery buried under the driver's seat. What?!? Who does this? Why?

Fortunately their second vehicle was a good old fashioned Dodge pickup with the battery easily accessible under the hood/bonnet as god intended, and we were on our way with a new respect for the potential of the power liftgate to ruin an otherwise great weekend.
 

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Someone suggested that new cars have a way to get the car into neutral even without power but they could not figure out how to do that. They could not push the car.
For the next time that happens to your niece:


It would be nice if Dodge labelled that cover in the centre console "Shift Lock Release" the way that Hyundai and Kia do...
 
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with his Volkswagen SUV, which apparently has the 12V battery buried under the driver's seat. What?!? Who does this? Why?
Haha, the Germans love playing "hide and seek" with the battery. My Mercedes has it's battery under the passenger seat floor board. Also, I read that Merc discourages their drivers from jump starting cars, as the feedback could fry sensitive electronics on their SAM units.
I like how the Ioniq's (as troublesome as it maybe for some) is at least out in the open with plenty of space around. Does anyone know if it is strong enough to jump an ICE car? I would think that the CCA on our batteries is really low as it doesn't need to turn a starter.
 
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