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Hard to believe that hybrid pricing is so different in Canada. Typical hybrid premiums over similar ICE model is two to three thousand in the US. In some cases it is less than two thousand. I don’t think there would be any market for hybrids at all in Canada at a six thousand dollar premium. Nor here.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Hi TysX10!

Thank you, it's very clear and detailed description about the problem and the possible solutions.

I think that the EV is probably could handle my distance as I have written above but I'm not really sure that it could be so good for the battery to charge it always to 100% and only 20% will be left from the capacity after every workdays. And if I use heater or climate then it will be worse.

So I think the hybrid one would be more better for me too as I consider everything as I can read in your description.
 

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Styler, as noted in another recent post, running the HVAC system isn't really a big hit on range (about 10 km or 15 km tops) if you do long trips, such as yours, because once the car is warm/cool, it doesn't take that much to keep it that way. And you can preheat and condition the cabin and battery in the morning while plugged in before you leave.

With regard to the battery, if you use the schedule feature, the car will finish charging shortly before you leave, so the amount of time the battery is at 100% will be minimal. And there is no problem with running the battery down to 20%. I've got the 28 kWh IONIQ and with my commute I charge to 85% every morning and it's down to between 20% and 30% every evening. Two years and 70,000 km on, my battery still shows 100% SoH. It hasn't used any of the buffer yet.

You are right on the cusp. I guess it comes down to how adventurous you are. What about the Kona or Niro? are those available to you. They have significantly more range than the IONIQ.
 

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2019 Ioniq Plugin, Phantom black
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We struggled with the same conundrum when we purchased....go Hybrid (don't have to worry about range/refueling/etc...)...go PHEV (get "free" mileage sometimes, don't have to worry about range for longer trips)...go EV ("free" mileage...but need to plan/factor in charging for longer trips/etc..)...or go ICE (lower up front cost...higher running costs...no range issues).

Our thought process (really just mine, since my wife doesn't think of any of this stuff) was:

We defined the purpose of the car:
1. commuting...primarily for my wife as she commutes every day
2. fuel economy...overall consideration, minimize expense
3. comfort and safety...less tiring for the commutes, advanced safety features
4. occasional long drives out to our property...solid 250km each way + trips into town
5. backup for our other car...Subaru forester...averages 8.8-9L/100km

We then looked at the typical trips that we do:
1. commute to office 1 (sometimes charging is available...enough other EV/PHEVs being driven/too few charger spots) ...27km each way 90% highway....her company has 2 offices at the moment and is building a 3rd...she has to regularly go to each
2. commute to office 2 (charging regularly available)...110km each way 95% highway
3. commute to office 3 (charging unknown...under construction but there's word that there's no plan for a charger)...40km each way 95% highway
4. In-laws...6km each way -city
5. parents...32km each way - 60% highway
6. remote property...250km each way 90% highway
7. local errands and groceries/etc....all close city driving

We factored in costs for the vehicle, fuel, range, charge times, etc... I saw a general trend
  • over a comparably capable ICE....hybrids added about $5K to the cost...and would take approx. 6.6yrs to break even on fuel costs. Local incentives have been much reduced re. hybrids
  • From a hybrid to the comparable PHEV...it added about $2500 to the cost...and factoring in the number of "typical trips", some "free" and others using Hybrid mode...it was a good balance for us on being able to get to where we needed to go, without having to worry about range or else be in a "must charge at destination" situation. Waiting around for an hour or so at a highway charging point was not an option. Local incentives amounted to ~$2500 for the PHEV...so a price wash between hybrid and PHEV
  • From ICE (with features of the EV's we were looking at) to EV...we roughly figured out that we were pre-paying about 8-9years worth of gasoline upfront. And to get into the EV with the features we wanted we were typically looking right up there at top EV trim models. This was, for us, a long break even point
  • From PHEV to comparable EV it was ~$5K. With local incentives, the difference was ~$2500-3000.
  • rewiring the house panel (my old panel would have needed to be replaced)...wiring a 220/240V circuit out to the garage and installing a level 2 charge point was guesstimated at $6000K
  • in our area (Toronto, Ontario, Canada), lots of people have said/reported/reviewed that a safe/conservative estimate is to reduce EV range by 25-30% for the worst of the cold weather
  • for our commutes, they're generally "flat"...some hills/etc...but they're generally minor compared to real hills
So in the end, (for us and our situation), it came down to these factors:
  • overall price for a balance of fuel economy, cost of the vehicle with the safety features we wanted, cost to charge it at home, fuel costs for our estimated normal average of trips to various locations
  • range to be a backup vehicle if needed...and time it takes to charge up
We ended up choosing a 2020 PHEV Ultimate (SEL?) package...and after some use are happy with our choice. We average ~1100km per "fill up"...fill ups are about 35L. That's just over 1 weeks worth of commuting/errands (we used to hit the gas station at least once if not twice in the Subaru for the same timing...and it's a 50-55L tank). Charging every night at home off of a regular plug in the garage is simple...but it does take ~6h30min. I only wish it was faster on the weekends when we run errands throughout the weekend days. If we have a full battery we're averaging 3.0L/100km for her longer commutes...4.3L/100km if she doesn't leave with a full charge and cannot charge at work (about the same...bit higher at 4.5...for the longer trip out to the property)...and 4.7-4.8 if she uses the heater/AC for those longer commutes. For the short local errands (essentially the weekends) it's 0.0L/100km...which is sweet.

For us, the situation will only get better (hope) when the new, closer, office opens and her longer commute is less frequent. And spring is nearly here and the weather is warmer which does make the EV range better.

Do I wish we got the Ioniq EV? No. 1. the cost difference had too far out of a break even point for us. 2. The range (and conservative winter safety margin) was just not enough for the longer normal commute (we could and will defer to the Forester for the drives out to the property...ground clearance and towing capability matters there).

Would the longer range Hyundai Kona EV have done the trick? Range/usability...yes. Price...no, it pushed us out of out budget (could have bought an ICE commuter car and a "lifetime" of gasoline for it). But we were right on the fence...between the Ioniq PHEV and the Kona EV (Ioniq PHEV is more comfortable for commuting IMHO). If she didn't have the regularly occurring longer commute...then we would have done a lower cost EV, and used the Forester for the odd occasion as needed.

I'm 90+% convinced that an EV is a viable option if your day-in-out driving distances fall comfortably within its conservative range AND if you have a reliably available charging point (e.g. home/garage/work). And if you are willing to adjust your habits/wants when it doesn't fit...e.g. rent a car for longer trips if you don't want to wait to charge...wait to charge when you need to...etc...

Cautiously, if I had to rely on public/payable charging infrastructure (e.g. not my house/garage) on a regular basis it would greatly take away from my interest in an EV vs. a PHEV/hybrid. Some countries/cities have done it well (and pricing is increasing)...but around here...not so much.

Just my $0.02
T: is the traction battery capacity 64Km as advertised for the 2020 PHEV? Mine is 47Km.
 

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T: is the traction battery capacity 64Km as advertised for the 2020 PHEV? Mine is 47Km.
As far as I know, the traction battery has the same capacity (8.9 kWh) in all Ioniq PHEVs, no matter which country or model year. The difference in advertised range is because of different testing conditions, i.e. driving cycles.

According to NEDC, the range is 63 km. According to WLTP, the range is 52 km.
In Canada, the range is advertised as 47 km, not sure which driving cycle is used there.
But even though the advertised range is different, there is no difference in real life at the same driving conditions.
 

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T: is the traction battery capacity 64Km as advertised for the 2020 PHEV? Mine is 47Km.
It's the same advertised 47km...but we've found it to vary, as said in the other post, depending on driving conditions. The furthest we got so far was ~55KM...the weather was really nice (no ICE heating needed..no seat heater, no steering wheel heater needed), clear highway driving, no head winds, etc... We've also gotten as little as 39km so far..."super" cold weather, running the seats/steering wheel heater, lousy road/weather conditions (this was probably the biggest factor)...and in those conditions we're more concerned with safe travels vs. fuel economy.

Re. the 64KM (guessing that was re the trip to my parents at 32km each way)…~40-45km would be EV only...and if we couldn't charge at their house it would be Hybrid on the way back. When we run hybrid mode (usually because the EV range has run out) we do notice that the ICE regen system will run to charge the battery (ICE running, regen, etc) a bit and when the road/driving conditions work out for whatever formula it uses it'll kick to EV to deplete what charge it's gained. Eg...Battery capacity drains down to 13% (ev range 0) and then it'll get back up to 14/15/16...19% and if we're cruising along it'll kick to EV again somewhere in there...then at ~14% again and it'll go back to hybrid. So for the ~64Km trip to my parents we'll end up at about ~1-1.5L/100km for that trip (~40km ev and 24km on hybrid)...of course, weather depending. At those sorts of fuel economy we chalk it up as negligible (for our purposes). And pleasantly...at highway speeds/noise I don't notice the ICE kick in/out (but I usually have the radio/spotify going)...I can just barely notice it.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Hi All!

Yesterday I bought my new IoniQ EV. So I ended up to buy the full electric version 38kwh. I love the car :) It's very effective. Easily could come to home (189 km) from the dealer and 126 km+ range was remaining as the car displayed. So 311 km distance is really achievable, or more? :)

At home my wallbox is under construction but now I tried my standard electrical power point and it can charge the car with 2.5 kwh. Is it possible to chare from 0 to 100% in 18 hours in this way?

I tried a 22kwh charger in the town, but it could charge the car also with 7.4kwh. (I knew it, that it works this way). 7.4 or 50 but not between them :)

Overall, I love the car. I had a Mercedes C class (2018) and I can say that this Ioniq EV can provide a very similar interior quality and driving experience, or more in the driving experience (at least from my point). I love that how soft is the suspension in this car and how quiet is it :)
 

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so other questions

are there any local tax implications for the PHEV or the EV?

here in the UK the EV and PHEV are very close in price after plugin vehicle grants are taken into consideration (with the EV being slightly cheaper)

the DCT is solid, we have a number of taxi drivers who driver PHEV / HEV's with 100,000+ miles / 160,000+ KM on their cars with no issues on the DCT

so long as you don't constantly rapid charge (L3 50KW+ chargers) we have 3 year plus EV's on here with no visible range degradation yet, from our understanding there is a 10% buffer in the battery, so a 100% full charge actually only charges the battery to about 90%. this is to protect the battery, also 0% on the gauge is actually 10-15% remaining to prevent battery damage due to running completely flat

so Hyundai have done a lot to protect the battery,

the 38KWh 2020 Ioniq EV also has the liquid cooled battery pack to prevent issues due to the battery overheating

the biggest issue for range is external temperatures and the effect they have on energy use
  • increase rolling resistance driving in snow / slush / heavy rain
  • more use of cabin heating (heated seats and steering wheel are more efficient, also preheat with scheduled departure time when plugged in)
  • more AC use cooling in high temperatures
have a look at spreadsheet to campare cost per mile EV/PHEV/HEV
it has a spreadsheet (no macros, just basic formula) you can enter your fuel / electricity costs and see your cost per miles easilly
 

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At home my wallbox is under construction but now I tried my standard electrical power point and it can charge the car with 2.5 kwh. Is it possible to chare from 0 to 100% in 18 hours in this way?
I just got an Ioniq EV recently as well.

I did some research on this - just using a standard socket, and was in touch with a few people about it, and posting on forums, and the conclusion was:

1. Yes you can. It will work.
2. 2.5KW is not that different to electrical appliances such as a kettle, microwave, hair dryer etc. Plugging in your car for some minutes or an hour is therefore no riskier than using these appliances.
3. However if you leave it in for 18 hours just using a regular socket there is a small risk of problems such as overheating, socket melting and perhaps a very small risk of causing a fire. Because of heat build up over time. It depends on the quality of the socket and electrical system.
4. So plug it in for a couple of hours, unplug, check the socket and plug are not excessively warm. If not, maybe try 3-4 hours, keep an eye on it. Perhaps don't leave it overnight this way. Maybe wait for the wallbox before doing that.
 

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Discussion Starter #30 (Edited)
Ok :) By the way I ordered my faster charger. I didn't want to upgrade my house electrical system so I ended up to buy a 7.2kw 1x32A charger (wall box) but it will use only 1x20A. But I think it could be good for me to charge the car from 0 to 100% in 10 hours, because the car will never be 0% (or rarrely), reather than 20,30 or 40%, and the chargin time will be ~7-8 hours then.

The electrician will install it next week. :)


The car by the way is extremely effective. Yesterday I went 190 km and the average consumption was 10.8 kwh :) (there were many hills and other in the path) . 43% were in the battery when I arrived home. It can easily go more than 310 km with my current driving habbit.
 

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3. However if you leave it in for 18 hours just using a regular socket there is a small risk of problems such as overheating, socket melting and perhaps a very small risk of causing a fire. Because of heat build up over time. It depends on the quality of the socket and electrical system.
4. So plug it in for a couple of hours, unplug, check the socket and plug are not excessively warm. If not, maybe try 3-4 hours, keep an eye on it. Perhaps don't leave it overnight this way. Maybe wait for the wallbox before doing that.
The household charging cable that comes with the car has a temperature sensor in the plug, so it will shut itself off if the plug gets too warm. Just don't use it with an extension cord, as it has no way of knowing how hot the plug on the far end of that cord might be getting.
 

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That's good to know. Assuming no extension cable, do you think that sensor can protect the socket as well as the plug from melting/damage/heat?
 

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That's good to know. Assuming no extension cable, do you think that sensor can protect the socket as well as the plug from melting/damage/heat?
Yes, copper is a good conductor of heat too, so if the socket contacts were overheating that would make its way back into the plug and cause a shutdown.
 

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So, given this, am I over cautious to suggest not to leave in overnight in a regular socket? Do you think it's safe to plug an Ioniq into any regular socket (within reason, assuming it looks in OK condition) and then just leave it without checking on it for 10 or 15 hours?

I probably won't do it in mine until I have the electrician come over. I asked him last year and he suggested to put a more durable socket in before leaving the car overnight.
 

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It's helpful to know what else is on the same circuit as that socket, along with the rating of the fuse or circuit breaker protecting it, and then adjust the charge level accordingly. Assuming the charge level is safe for your application then I would not be worried at all about leaving it overnight.

As an example, before I got my level 2 charger installed I was using the outlet on my porch. It was on the same 15A circuit breaker as the outlet on my deck, but since nothing is ever plugged in there except the occasional power tool used during the day, I set the charge level to high and plugged the car in every night without fear.
 
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