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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Dear All!

I'm considering to buy a new Hyundai Ioniq and have a little hesitation to which version is more suitable for me.

In one week I should travel to my workplace atleast 3 times by average, plus sometimes we go to somewhere with my family in our free time.
My workplace is 105 km far from my home.
As I saw, with the new 2020 Ioniq EV it could be possible to travel to my workplace and back to home (210km) with only one charge (probably at night - considering to place a faster charger at home). I would go ~80-90 km on highway with 110-120 km/hour speed and the remaining 10-15 km in the city.

Is it really possible or it will cause a battery capacity problems after few years?

Which do you think is worth more, a plugin hybrid version or the EV?

I also checked the PHEV, and I got the information that the DCT is the bottleneck of the plugin hybrids.

So which is worth more in long therm? Replace the battery after few years or the parts of a plugin hybrid with petrol engine after lots of travelling?

I'm so clueless.

Thank you so much for your help!
 

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I think one or two of the presumptions you are making here might not be helpful in your choice. Or, at best, may sway your judgement for reasons that are not altogether of a reasonable nature.

For example, the notion that charging an EV regularly to make journeys that total close to the battery capacity damages the battery capacity to a notable degree seem disproven by vehicle users. While battery capacity likely does decline with misuse (such as frequent fast-charging), and will drop over time due to charging cycles, there is no real evidence in the Ioniq that this is devastating to battery life.

That may be because the Ioniq EV has not been around for enough years to show problems, but it is also likely that short of really poor charging habits, the batteries in modern EVs such as the Ioniq are rather more robust than people seem to expect.

Also, when considering long-term value, you ought to give some thought to how the comparative markets for EVs and PHEVs appears to be going. PHEVs are undoubtedly (and reasonably) popular at the moment, because they represent a good compromise between range and efficiency on the one hand, and low-cost running and environmental impact on the other. But like any compromise, the risk is that as EVs gain in popularity, PHEVs could become a millstone that after a few years may be hard to sell, or which could lose a significant amount of value because EVs have by then become cheaper and more plentiful in the marketplace.

So my advice would be to look at your likely running costs of both as they are right now. What would the cost/mile be of an EV, given the purchase price of the vehicle, the costs of the charger, and the cost to charge the battery each time. Set that against the (probably) lower cost to purchase a PHEV, and the cost/mile of mixed charging/refueling, allowing for a maximum of the PHEV's EV range on a single charge, which unless you have a charger available at your work, would mean that most of your journey each time would be in HEV mode, not EV - with consequent lower efficiency (and inevitable petrol use).

The other question about the comparative cost of engine versus battery, etc., is rather moot I think. One hopes when buying a car that neither would need replacing, but if you are looking at the issue of reliability, there is far less to go wrong and fail in an EV than a PHEV. Less probability of large-scale cost therefore.

If it were me, I'd look at whether the EV could readily cover the range I need for regular journeys, and whether I had ready charging options at home. If yes to both, I'd find it hard to justify anything but an EV.

Also:
I also checked the PHEV, and I got the information that the DCT is the bottleneck of the plugin hybrids.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. The PHEV (and HEV's) have DCTs which seem really effective, and behave pretty well. It doesn't feel like a problem to me, driving one, but it isn't clear what you mean by 'bottleneck'.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

"I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. The PHEV (and HEV's) have DCTs which seem really effective " -> I've just read somewhere that after for e.g. 144.000 km there could be problems with DCT. BTW I have a C class currently which have DCT as well and I've never had any problem with it.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
In test videos I can clearly see that the 210 km range for the 38.6kwh Ioniq would be not problem at all but do you have any experience about it? What do you think about it?
 

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Thank you very much for your detailed answer.

"I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this. The PHEV (and HEV's) have DCTs which seem really effective " -> I've just read somewhere that after for e.g. 144.000 km there could be problems with DCT. BTW I have a C class currently which have DCT as well and I've never had any problem with it.
There are a number of high-milage Ioniqs with owners participating in this forum, and I don't think I have seen any mention of DCT issues in particular. They are easy to abuse in some vehicles if you use the transmission to balance the car on a hill rather than use the brakes, for example, but that's just plain bad driving habits anyway. Otherwise, I'd say whichever model you get, it is going to have its risks of failure around some component or another.
 

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I'll side with Andy. From what you have said the new 38kWh IONIQ sounds like a great fit for your general driving habits, unless you live in a region with very cold winters (< -20Deg C) in which case your round trip commute and range may start to get close. But, driving just 10 kph slower on the freeway will make a massive difference on range and could help you out for those few extremely cold days. Other than that, I think the EV is perfect for you. Do some investigation, if you can charge close to your work then even winter driving range is a moot point.

As for the DCT, on the PHEV, as mentioned, it appears to be rock solid. Remember for getting going the car will use the electric traction motor, so there is absolutely minimal wear on the clutch, even if you creep or hold the car on a hill I believe the traction motor will do that work and the clutch will be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for your reply! I will decide it soon. I would like to buy the full electric version more at the moment, but I will see. The plugin hybrid version is also a very budget friendly one.
 

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The only reason I bought an HEV is that my vehicle use requires occasional long-range journeys for which battery power is totally insufficient, and the charging infrastructure is almost non-existent. Even then, I'd have gone with the PHEV if I could have had one at a good price (this time last year, there wasn't one to be had within several hundreds of miles), and the dealer offered me the HEV I ended up buying at a price that was not much higher than a similarly priced Elantra, which was rated at about 35-40mpg.

But once the charging infrastructure improves, as I really hope and believe it will, the HEV will stop being a good compromise, and I will switch to an EV, because that's far closer to the way the future of personal transport needs to go than any vehicle that has an internal combustion engine, however clever the engineering.

I don't think you can go wrong buying an EV if the range meets your needs.
 

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I drove a PHEV for a year and a half before trading it in for an EV. The PHEV was a great car for sure, and it gradually got me hooked on driving on electricity. In hindsight I wish I had gone for the EV from start!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
But what do you think? For me from the data which is avaliable, the EV could handle my distance? I'm not sure.

Now I checked my whole path and the result is that I should go 80 km on highway and 25 km in city. My idea is to not charge my car at my workplace so the whole distance would be 160km highway and 50 km city => ~210 in sum but of course there could be some uncommon phenomenons like accident on the highway or closed roads or something else.

I think the 38 khw Ioniq could handle this traveling but I think it's really close to the limits. On highway I wouldn't go with more than 110-120 km/h and in the city it will be 50-60 km/h and near the city it could be 70-80 km/h.

I'm not sure that the 38 khw EV (which has WLTP 310 in real life on highway it's 250-260 as I have read in some reviews) could be the best choice for this purpose for me because the close range limits, the PHEV will be the best choice I guess. Or a Kona maybe with the 64Khw. Don't know.
 

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In my MY 2017 EV I can do at least 240km with a 20+ Km reserve all year here in Cyprus starting at 100% and motorway cruising speed of 95km/hr. Of course the lowest temp here is always above freezing, and temps below freezing would reduce range. With the increased battery size of the 2020 EV I would not expect you to have any problem achieving over 260 Km range unless the temps drop to below -10C. There is plenty of evidence on this forum of 2016-2019 owners achieving the WLTP, or equivelant, range and often exceeding it so no reason why the 2020 should be any different.;)
 

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The only way to say for sure is to borrow a car and test it out. My current range under real conditions, this strange winter with temperatures around +5C, is 260-280 km, mostly highway. You should fare better than that since you have a fair share of city and near city conditions.

I estimate that you'll arrive home with at least 20% charge remaining, but who knows?

The PHEV is a very nice car too, and I can understand that you may wish to play it safe. But it's more fun to drive on electricity alone! :)
 

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Styler, I suggest you jump on "A Better Route Planner" ( ABRP ) and plan your route to work and back using that tool. ABRP will take speed limits, road and weather conditions, baggage and elevation change into account when working out expected energy use on your trip. Generally speaking, I think the estimates provided are accurate or at worst a bit conservative. If you don't have access to a vehicle to do a real world test, this is as close as you can get.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks for the tool! Basicly I got 21% arrival charge result if I don't charge the car at work. Not bad I think but I shoul start with 100% capacity. Other thing is that I could set the maximum speed to 110 km/h so on highway it calculates with the 110 km/h, but on other road I couldnt set secondary max limit, so it calculated with for e.g. the maximum 90 km/h.

So overall I think the 21% is the minimum because if I go with for e.g. 80 km/h in normal road instead of 90 km/h then it could be better result. :)

31879
 

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Styler, that result is pretty much what I was expecting, based on your commute description. Play around with the road, weather and temp settings to find your worst case. Likely winter with snow (if you get that in your location). If that combination still works, then you're good to go.
 

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Dear All!

I'm considering to buy a new Hyundai Ioniq and have a little hesitation to which version is more suitable for me.

In one week I should travel to my workplace atleast 3 times by average, plus sometimes we go to somewhere with my family in our free time.
My workplace is 105 km far from my home.
As I saw, with the new 2020 Ioniq EV it could be possible to travel to my workplace and back to home (210km) with only one charge (probably at night - considering to place a faster charger at home). I would go ~80-90 km on highway with 110-120 km/hour speed and the remaining 10-15 km in the city.

Is it really possible or it will cause a battery capacity problems after few years?

Which do you think is worth more, a plugin hybrid version or the EV?

I also checked the PHEV, and I got the information that the DCT is the bottleneck of the plugin hybrids.

So which is worth more in long therm? Replace the battery after few years or the parts of a plugin hybrid with petrol engine after lots of travelling?

I'm so clueless.

Thank you so much for your help!
Dear All!

I'm considering to buy a new Hyundai Ioniq and have a little hesitation to which version is more suitable for me.

In one week I should travel to my workplace atleast 3 times by average, plus sometimes we go to somewhere with my family in our free time.
My workplace is 105 km far from my home.
As I saw, with the new 2020 Ioniq EV it could be possible to travel to my workplace and back to home (210km) with only one charge (probably at night - considering to place a faster charger at home). I would go ~80-90 km on highway with 110-120 km/hour speed and the remaining 10-15 km in the city.

Is it really possible or it will cause a battery capacity problems after few years?

Which do you think is worth more, a plugin hybrid version or the EV?

I also checked the PHEV, and I got the information that the DCT is the bottleneck of the plugin hybrids.

So which is worth more in long therm? Replace the battery after few years or the parts of a plugin hybrid with petrol engine after lots of travelling?

I'm so clueless.

Thank you so much for your help!
Hi Styler.

The comments provided by Andy and Ou are bang on.

I purchased a PHEV last summer and am most pleased with everything about this vehicle.
As mentioned, look at the PHEV as a transition technology between ICE and EV. Eventually as EV battery technology continues to evolve, within a 2-3 years they will attain 100$ per KwH. At this point, with a 850+Km range, EV will be dominant.
But note that for the next few years PHEV will continue to be viable and popular.
My PHEV delivers 2L per 100Km in the non winter months (3.5L inthe winter period) I live in a colder climate and getting a blended 2.75L/100Km is not bad at all. Of course it depends on your driving profile.
If you are able to charge at your place of employment, even on a 120V input, that's 120Km (2020) free every day!

Of course on longer trips the PHEV fuel advantages are mitigated vs EV. It depends on how much driving you do
on a daily basis. The longer the trip segments, the less the advantage for the PHEV.
Both are great solutions, but if you secure office charging and are concerned about range on longer trips, then the PHEV might be attractive. Also bear in mind that the 2020 PHEV has a kilometer range in the 60's.
Good luck
Ron
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi Ronmontreal!

Thank you for you answer. Yes, the plugin hybrid one is a great choice as well. One good thing in the EV is that we can get some financial support from the government to buy a clear electric one. So I will decide it in the next few weeks. Now I really can't decide but I lean to the electric one at the moment.
 

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PHEVs will be popular (although that is a bit of exaggeration) only as long as there are government subsidies. Sales will drop like a rock when they stop. Still, calling it a transition vehicle is a good description and government subsidies are indeed needed for that purpose.
 

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We struggled with the same conundrum when we purchased....go Hybrid (don't have to worry about range/refueling/etc...)...go PHEV (get "free" mileage sometimes, don't have to worry about range for longer trips)...go EV ("free" mileage...but need to plan/factor in charging for longer trips/etc..)...or go ICE (lower up front cost...higher running costs...no range issues).

Our thought process (really just mine, since my wife doesn't think of any of this stuff) was:

We defined the purpose of the car:
1. commuting...primarily for my wife as she commutes every day
2. fuel economy...overall consideration, minimize expense
3. comfort and safety...less tiring for the commutes, advanced safety features
4. occasional long drives out to our property...solid 250km each way + trips into town
5. backup for our other car...Subaru forester...averages 8.8-9L/100km

We then looked at the typical trips that we do:
1. commute to office 1 (sometimes charging is available...enough other EV/PHEVs being driven/too few charger spots) ...27km each way 90% highway....her company has 2 offices at the moment and is building a 3rd...she has to regularly go to each
2. commute to office 2 (charging regularly available)...110km each way 95% highway
3. commute to office 3 (charging unknown...under construction but there's word that there's no plan for a charger)...40km each way 95% highway
4. In-laws...6km each way -city
5. parents...32km each way - 60% highway
6. remote property...250km each way 90% highway
7. local errands and groceries/etc....all close city driving

We factored in costs for the vehicle, fuel, range, charge times, etc... I saw a general trend
  • over a comparably capable ICE....hybrids added about $5K to the cost...and would take approx. 6.6yrs to break even on fuel costs. Local incentives have been much reduced re. hybrids
  • From a hybrid to the comparable PHEV...it added about $2500 to the cost...and factoring in the number of "typical trips", some "free" and others using Hybrid mode...it was a good balance for us on being able to get to where we needed to go, without having to worry about range or else be in a "must charge at destination" situation. Waiting around for an hour or so at a highway charging point was not an option. Local incentives amounted to ~$2500 for the PHEV...so a price wash between hybrid and PHEV
  • From ICE (with features of the EV's we were looking at) to EV...we roughly figured out that we were pre-paying about 8-9years worth of gasoline upfront. And to get into the EV with the features we wanted we were typically looking right up there at top EV trim models. This was, for us, a long break even point
  • From PHEV to comparable EV it was ~$5K. With local incentives, the difference was ~$2500-3000.
  • rewiring the house panel (my old panel would have needed to be replaced)...wiring a 220/240V circuit out to the garage and installing a level 2 charge point was guesstimated at $6000K
  • in our area (Toronto, Ontario, Canada), lots of people have said/reported/reviewed that a safe/conservative estimate is to reduce EV range by 25-30% for the worst of the cold weather
  • for our commutes, they're generally "flat"...some hills/etc...but they're generally minor compared to real hills
So in the end, (for us and our situation), it came down to these factors:
  • overall price for a balance of fuel economy, cost of the vehicle with the safety features we wanted, cost to charge it at home, fuel costs for our estimated normal average of trips to various locations
  • range to be a backup vehicle if needed...and time it takes to charge up
We ended up choosing a 2020 PHEV Ultimate (SEL?) package...and after some use are happy with our choice. We average ~1100km per "fill up"...fill ups are about 35L. That's just over 1 weeks worth of commuting/errands (we used to hit the gas station at least once if not twice in the Subaru for the same timing...and it's a 50-55L tank). Charging every night at home off of a regular plug in the garage is simple...but it does take ~6h30min. I only wish it was faster on the weekends when we run errands throughout the weekend days. If we have a full battery we're averaging 3.0L/100km for her longer commutes...4.3L/100km if she doesn't leave with a full charge and cannot charge at work (about the same...bit higher at 4.5...for the longer trip out to the property)...and 4.7-4.8 if she uses the heater/AC for those longer commutes. For the short local errands (essentially the weekends) it's 0.0L/100km...which is sweet.

For us, the situation will only get better (hope) when the new, closer, office opens and her longer commute is less frequent. And spring is nearly here and the weather is warmer which does make the EV range better.

Do I wish we got the Ioniq EV? No. 1. the cost difference had too far out of a break even point for us. 2. The range (and conservative winter safety margin) was just not enough for the longer normal commute (we could and will defer to the Forester for the drives out to the property...ground clearance and towing capability matters there).

Would the longer range Hyundai Kona EV have done the trick? Range/usability...yes. Price...no, it pushed us out of out budget (could have bought an ICE commuter car and a "lifetime" of gasoline for it). But we were right on the fence...between the Ioniq PHEV and the Kona EV (Ioniq PHEV is more comfortable for commuting IMHO). If she didn't have the regularly occurring longer commute...then we would have done a lower cost EV, and used the Forester for the odd occasion as needed.

I'm 90+% convinced that an EV is a viable option if your day-in-out driving distances fall comfortably within its conservative range AND if you have a reliably available charging point (e.g. home/garage/work). And if you are willing to adjust your habits/wants when it doesn't fit...e.g. rent a car for longer trips if you don't want to wait to charge...wait to charge when you need to...etc...

Cautiously, if I had to rely on public/payable charging infrastructure (e.g. not my house/garage) on a regular basis it would greatly take away from my interest in an EV vs. a PHEV/hybrid. Some countries/cities have done it well (and pricing is increasing)...but around here...not so much.

Just my $0.02
 
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