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What is the minimum Range of an EV on a single charge before you would consider one

  • 500 miles

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 450 miles

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 400 miles

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • 350 miles

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • 300 miles

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • 250 miles

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • 200 miles

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 150 miles

    Votes: 2 20.0%
  • 100 miles

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • would never drive an electric only car

    Votes: 1 10.0%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
most people seem to have the "range anxiety" issue and quote that as a reason for avoiding EV's at the moment


the other reason is that at the moment most public charging points are free to use, but some are now starting to charge for use, so how long before charging is as costly as petrol?


so a quick poll of the minimum range you would require from an EV before you would consider buying one
 

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This is actually a really good poll to see how people feel. I would have to say 300miles but that's just because I think the industry standard should be hitting that fairly soon. I can't just shoot for the stars because I know it won't happen like that and I'll have to wait quite some time to see 400+ miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
i went for 350, purely as I do a number of 250-280 miles runs, and would like to complete these on a single charge and have a little bit to spare to cope with the gradual decline in battery capacity over time


before pure EV's become mainstream I think they will need to have a range of 350 - 400 as a minimum as many would like to see a range equal to what they can currently get out of a single tank of fuel (for simplicity 1 charge = 1 tank of fuel)


the other thing will be plentiful charging points and cheap electricity from renewable sources
 

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400+ mile EV range battery and charging requirements.
I would prefer something more than a 400 round number. 425 seems like a better choice. How big of a battery pack does it need to get 425miles EV range and how long does it take to charge it?
We already know that a US gallon of gasoline is equivalent to 33.7kw. Almost all battery packs don't use its fully capacity. They may reserve 15% to 95% SOC as usable range to preserve the longevity of the pack. Even if they don't usable capacity stays the same.

Car A - 100MPGe, 425 mile EV range. 80% usable range (15%-95% SOC) The pack would have to be 180kw (round up from 179kw) with 143kw usable.
Car B - 125MPGe, 425 mile EV range. 80% usable range (15%-95% SOC) The pack would have to be 145kw (round up from 143kw) with 115kw usable.
Here are all the public EV charging stations. PlugShare - EV Charging Station Map - Find a place to charge your car!
A lot of chademo chargers on the US west coast freeways out in the boonies are run by this company EVRUS develops, markets and manages electric vehicle fast charging stations across America A lot of their charging station cost $2.95 service fee and $.59 per KW.
To charge car A from 10% to 90% would take about 115kw rounded up. That would cost just under $71
To charge car B from 10% to 90% would take about 92kw rounded up. That would cost just over $57
It would take about 2 hours to charge the pack using Chademo.
It would take just over 17 hours to charge car B with 6.6KW L2 charger and just under 22 hours to charge car A with the same charger.
It would take just under 77 hours to charge car B with 1.5kw L1 charger and just over 95 hours to charge car A with the same charger.
 

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I still consider an electric car as an option for a second car only, useful when you go to work everyday but not for long trips, so I'd rather buy one of it if they weren't so expensives... I would prefer a 150 miles range electric car if it cost half of the price they cost nowadays.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Tesla have a 300 mile range with a 100KW/h battery using current technology


BBC - Autos - With the P100D, has Tesla finally banished range anxiety?










so with the advances made in both battery, drive motor and regenerative braking being made in Formula e, I think a 400 mile range is feasible in the next 5-10 years


the next step is then cost, can the manufacturers bring the cost down so the man n the street in a normal job can afford to buy and run one


as to cost, here in the UK petrol is about £1.15 / l, so a 45 litre tank is costing around £50 to fill to get 300 - 500 miles range (depending on engine and driving style), at current rates that's about $60, a few months back when the rates were higher it would have been about $75


also don't forget supply and demand as EV adoption increases, as there are "price wars" beween petrol / gas stations now to get customers there could well be the same with charge points, and as more people use them they may be able to get a better tariff from the power companies


there are so many variables and possibilities this is going to be interesting to watch how it plays out over the next 10 years
 

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The problem with BEVs isn't just the range problem. It's a dual problem: short range and long recharge time. Increasing the range exacerbates the second problem. Level 1 recharging can replenish, at most, 14kwh in an 8 hour period. The Nissan Leaf is rated 2.9kwh/mi, so in 8 hours you can get maybe 40 miles of range. A level 2 charger can supply up to 40kwh in an 8hr period (for a home based system) so figure 115 mile range. But a level 2 charger costs hundreds of dollars just for the charger and hundreds more to to have an electrician install it. Figure $1k minimum.

But short range and long recharge times aren't the only problem. If I run my gasoline car empty I face an inconvenient walk to a gas station. If I run a BEV out of charge I risk bricking a battery pack that costs tens of thousands of dollars. So it's not just a dual problem, it's a triple problem.

But it's not just short range, long recharge time, and serious consequences if you guess wrong about your range problem. It's not easy to estimate your range in a BEV. Higher speeds significantly decrease range. Cold temperatures and hot temperatures significantly decrease range. So it's actually a quad problem: short range, long recharge time, hard to calculate range, and serious consequences if you guess wrong.

But it's not just a quad problem. Unlike a gasoline tank, a battery pack loses charge by self discharge. Cold temperatures greatly increase the rate of self discharge. Remember the NYT reporter that lost 2/3 of his charge one cold night at a motel in his Tesla? He ended up towing the car to a charging station. So it's not just a quad problem but a cinquenta(?) problem.

But it's not just a cinquenta(?) problem. Your battery pack suffers degradation with each charge and discharge. Hot temperatures greatly increase the rate of degradation. A few years down the road and that battery pack that barely took you where you needed to go will not get you there.

And so on and so on. The question is why? Why put up with all the limitations and problems of a BEV? The Prius and Ioniq HEVs have 600 to 700 mile range, can be refueled in less than 5 minutes all with no additional expense or electric infrastructure build out. They cost much less to buy and resale value will be much higher. HEVs are cleaner or just as clean as a BEV (unless your power source is nuclear). Why BEV? In the US, gasoline is actually cheaper in some markets than electricity, in other markets where electricity is marginally cheaper, you'll never recover the steep depreciation of your BEV. You'll never get any type of financial payoff going BEV.

Why BEV?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
the battery pack for the Ioniq has a built in battery warmer system for cold climates, but it only operates when charging so you need to get into habit of plugging it in when you get home in a cold climate


there is also battery cooling ducts for temperature control in use, not sure if there are fans which kick in if the pack get hot after a long run and you lock up the car


the LiPo battery tech in the Ioniq suffer far less from the memory effect NiMh batteries in the prius


they also have reserve capacity in the battery which prevents bricking the battery pack as you can't completely drain all power out of it


so Hyundai is addressing some of the issues you mention, but the issues with range and charge times are still the achillies heal of the tech


but like your dyson rechargeable vacuum cleaner or your electric toothbrush or razor you will rarely need a full charge from flat, it will only need a top up from your home charger,


so the issue of long charge times will more likely be due to the age old problem of the kids borrowing the car and forgetting to fill it up / plug it in when they bring it home, but unlike a petrol car you won't be able to take round the corner to garage and fill it up in 5 minutes
 
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