I have been wondering how, or even if, Hyundai deals with location specific voltages and AC frequencies. Most of the world would be fine with 50 Hz and 240 volts but for North America they claim the V2L adaptor puts out 120 volts. I have not seen anything saying they put out 60 Hz. But there are a bunch of electrical devices, usually older ones, that would have problems if fed 50 Hz power so I assume they are generating 60 Hz.

Having examined your assembly, do you have any insight into how Hyundai deals with this? Does the V2L adaptor somehow tell the car’s inverter what voltage and frequency to generate? Or do you think that is baked into the vehicle’s inverter and the inverter you get is based on the market the car is shipped to?

 

I suspect they ship the cars with the invertor to suit the market it's going too

What I would like to know though is if the car has 240v inverter and just connecting between PE and live to get 110v output on the V2L dongle.

I have not seen what spec a NA market car charges at in regards to AC

 

Thanks so much for this teardown. Now we know the different outputs are a function of the inverter.

I'm still wondering if the inverter is a standard part for all markets and there's an adjustment, firmware version or component swap done for different voltages and frequencies. Ideally I'd like to get back the full power ouput of that inverter for an American market car by getting two 120 VAC circuits or one 240 VAC circuit, 60 Hz, at 16 amps, which seems to be the current limit of the inverter.

It sure would be nice to get anything you want with a code update.

 

I see that the standard you guys use for charging allows 120 to 240, so maybe the car does have a 240 inverter onboard.

Hopefully someone over your side of the Atlantic can be inspired by the info here and do the same to the 120v V2L then you will be able to see and test what the cars doing.

 

If the external V2L adater is not standard kit with the US IONIQ 5....

And it costs a small fortune to buy from Hyundai...

And it is simple and easy to make one...

Perhpas someone (in China?) will start making inexpensive compatible ones.

Personally, my UK car with with it, but this will help US owners.

 

Well since owning the car I have been looking at the V2L dongle and wonder how it does what it does.

Looking at the unit I suspected that there couldn't be a whole lot going on because it didn't weigh too much.

With that in mind I thought it was fair to assume that the car did the heavy lifting in providing the angry pixies to allow us to dry the dog or boil a kettle or whatever it is you have done with V2L. and the dongle is just the means of connecting car to load and activating the Inverter in the car and allowing us the voltage output by the inverter.

So curiosity got the better of me today and i pulled it apart.

The main findings were that the dongle is indeed nothing more than a conduit from car to load with a switch to activate the inverter.

It activates the inverter by firstly telling the car there is something plugged into the charging port, This is done by the Red wire connected between PP and PE

Then when we operate the switch the CP line is also connected back to PE through the switch and thermal fuse which then tells the car to lock in the V2L dongle and switch on the inverter.

It's a pretty simple setup really with only a switch, a led and a thermal fuse to stop supply if the V2L socket gets too hot.







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Sounds like you've been watching a little too much AvE lol. Did you throw this thing on the healing bench after you got it apart?


...I hope you know what I'm talking about

 

Haha I love his YouTube channel. A very interesting and intelligent man with a great sense of humour.

 

Will V2L external adapter work with any IONIQ5 UK variants? The question is more for IONIQ5 in UK entry level trim 'SE Connect Auto' where V2L pack is not even an option. I am not after the 'internal port AC socket' but V2L external adapter part only.

 

I don't know, it would require the inverter in the car to be a standard fit.

Only way to know would be try one in the car.

 

My new Hyundai Ioniq 5 Ltd has a V2L plug inside on rear seat front. (The exterior connector is an expensive accessory.) When you take it apart, let me know what's in there and just what I can use it for, okay?

 

Hi

Thanks, I am going to do this next week and get back to the forum. It is a bit strange that 'sales people' would not know much about this capability. Even the EV cars with smallest batteries (around 40kWh) is much bigger than Tesla Wall Battery. I foreseen EV cars shall play a role in the future of energy storage with AC/DC and DC/AC.

 

It's a pretty simple setup really with only a switch, a led and a thermal fuse to stop supply if the V2L socket gets too hot.

…and all for the low, low price of $549! Act now!

 

You can get them for around $225 from a Hyundai dealer. The Santa Rosa dealership parts department ordered it for me and I picked it up 2 days later. There is a fraudulent outfit going on Hyundai forums saying the dealers are out, but you can get the $549 one from them. They leave comments supposedly from consumers. You can get it from a Hyundai parts department for a little over $225 so don't buy the $549 one.

 

Found this on Alibaba. Was offered price of 110USD with shipping to EU

 

Found this on Alibaba. Was offered price of 110USD with shipping to EU

 

Be interested to see one in the plastic to pull it apart and see how well its made and if it does indeed work

 

Interesting. The car plug appears to be Chinese standard interface. I sent them a note for J1772 US version plug to see what they reply.

 

I wonder how does this V2L adapter signal the car to enable the output. Is it as simple as you say, or are there any extra resistors or PWM involved? I wonder if it's possible to trigger full three phase out.

 

Like I said in the original post, The original v2l enables power out from the car by shorting the CP & PP pins to earth, I haven't tested to see if the other AC wires go live or not.

 

Well since owning the car I have been looking at the V2L dongle and wonder how it does what it does.

Looking at the unit I suspected that there couldn't be a whole lot going on because it didn't weigh too much.

With that in mind I thought it was fair to assume that the car did the heavy lifting in providing the angry pixies to allow us to dry the dog or boil a kettle or whatever it is you have done with V2L. and the dongle is just the means of connecting car to load and activating the Inverter in the car and allowing us the voltage output by the inverter.

So curiosity got the better of me today and i pulled it apart.

The main findings were that the dongle is indeed nothing more than a conduit from car to load with a switch to activate the inverter.

It activates the inverter by firstly telling the car there is something plugged into the charging port, This is done by the Red wire connected between PP and PE

Then when we operate the switch the CP line is also connected back to PE through the switch and thermal fuse which then tells the car to lock in the V2L dongle and switch on the inverter.

It's a pretty simple setup really with only a switch, a led and a thermal fuse to stop supply if the V2L socket gets too hot.







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Hi.
I have been trying to build my own V2L. Looking at your post, I have bought all needed parts. Since I have used a 5 meter cable, the utility socket is away from the car so a thermostat is not needed. As per you pictures and explanation, I have placed a permanent short between the PE and the PP and a switched short between the PE and the CP. This does no activate anything in the car. The charging lamps are not blinking and the 230VAC does not show (my setup includes a permanent DVM on the utility socket housing.
From the pictures, I do not see anything connected to the PE pin except for the green / yellow ground wire the is connected to the utility socket Base on the other side.
From whet I see on the PCB, it is all passive except for a LED and a diode or two to handle the LED from the 230 V AC.
BTW, I use a switch with built in 230VAC indicator so no diodes are needed.
Can you correct me or re-check your diagnostics of the product.

 

Try adding 62 ohm resistance between PP and PE and also 62 ohm resistance between CP and PE

 

Measuring the Hyundai V2L adaptor with a multimeter, there is 62 Ohm resistance between PP and PE. And when the V2L switch is turned on, there is 62 ohm between CP and PE. ie. they are not a dead short.

 

Thanks. I will share my setup when it will be OK. I have added a CB and a voltage meter on an outdoor universal socket . All are outdoor.

 

To my understanging, V2L is being handled by the same onboard charger, working in bidirectional mode. I have a hunch two other phases are identical, and I have a feeling the hardware is already capable of full bidirectional 3-phase operation with the grid. Also there was a short article somewhere about testing in Netherlands.
So I guess that we only need to discover the way to enable this mode, likely with different resistance. It may also be disabled in firmware, until Hyundai releases their smart grid integration.

 

Yes. I have seen a Phd paper about that issue, stretching the optional topology of different solutions to achieve efficient inverter which is bidi.

 

@aviryn Did you try adding the 62 ohm resistors as suggested?

If not, I'd suggest you add them. I have explained why and I know that they work.

When you've added the resistors, be careful of the voltage between L2/L3 and the floating neutral

 

I did not do that yet. I have sorted my resistors stock to get the 2 resistors. I have 2 trimmers I will adjust.
I did not read the IEC standard yet but from the little I have seen there is a room for play from the manufacturer’s side as the MG DIY post on the MGEV put just one 440 ohm resistor.

 

Hang in there @aviryn you're very close to getting it working.

The plug will unlock when you "turn off" the switch between CP and PE i.e. remove the 62 ohm resistor.

This is a design feature of the Hyundai V2L connector - whereby you cannot pull out the connector while the switch is on (even after clicking door unlock on the keyfob). Once that switch is off (ie. the resistor is removed), when you click the door unlock on the key fob, the charge port will release the locking pin holding the V2L connector.

This is different to the MG V2L connector based on the comments in that MG thread. So, as well as using different resistors, the locking method is different as well. This is why it is better to study the actual Hyundai V2L connector than try to replicate the MG V2L connector (and why I've ignored references to the MG V2L connector as they're not helping here).

In terms of getting power, there will be 230V (assuming that is your national standard) between L1 and Neutral if:

• there is 62 ohm resistance between PP and PE
• there is 62 ohm resistance between CP and PE (i.e. switch is on)

If there is no resistor between CP and PE (ie. switch is off), there will be no voltage between L1 and Neutral.

Next steps:

When you get it up and running, you will likely find some unexpected (and changing) voltages due to the floating neutral i.e. there is not 230V between L2/neutral and L3/neutral (ie. 230/415V three phase V2L) as some of use are hoping.

As @elektrinis has mentioned, it is possible that different signalling (i.e. different resistance levels) may trigger different behaviour in terms of provision of V2L (single or three phase) and V2G. Assuming the CP acts as a Control Pilot you would expect that it is the resistance on the CP that may "change modes" in a similar manner to the current control on an EVSE. That's worth testing.

V2L and V2G:

It's worth noting here that the Ioniq 5 V2L is in effect a grid-forming inverter - it sets the voltage and frequency. If the Ioniq 5 does have V2G capability it will need to revert to being a grid-following inverter in order to play nicely with the grid (regardless of whether it's three phase capable).

There is likely to be someone in the Utrecht We Drive Solar V2G project who could "unofficially" confirm how that V2G mode is initiated. It makes sense to me that V2L and V2G connectors/EVSE would provide the communication (via resistors or otherwise) to the vehicle as to what mode it wants - grid-forming or grid-following - not the vehicle owner who may not know.

 

Hang in there @aviryn you're very close to getting it working.

The plug will unlock when you "turn off" the switch between CP and PE i.e. remove the 62 ohm resistor.

This is a design feature of the Hyundai V2L connector - whereby you cannot pull out the connector while the switch is on (even after clicking door unlock on the keyfob). Once that switch is off (ie. the resistor is removed), when you click the door unlock on the key fob, the charge port will release the locking pin holding the V2L connector.

This is different to the MG V2L connector based on the comments in that MG thread. So, as well as using different resistors, the locking method is different as well. This is why it is better to study the actual Hyundai V2L connector than try to replicate the MG V2L connector (and why I've ignored references to the MG V2L connector as they're not helping here).

In terms of getting power, there will be 230V (assuming that is your national standard) between L1 and Neutral if:

• there is a 62 ohm resistor between PP and PE
• there is a 62 ohm resistor between CP and PE (i.e. switch is on)

If there is no resistor between CP and PE (ie. switch is off), there will be no voltage between L1 and Neutral.

Next steps:

When you get it up and running, you will likely find some unexpected (and changing) voltages due to the floating neutral i.e. there is not 230V between L2/neutral and L3/neutral (ie. 230/415V three phase V2L) as some of use are hoping.

As @elektrinis has mentioned, it is possible that different signalling (i.e. different resistance levels) may trigger different behaviour in terms of provision of V2L (single or three phase) and V2G. Assuming the CP acts as a Control Pilot you would expect that it is the resistance on the CP that may "change modes" in a similar manner to the current control on an EVSE. That's worth testing.

V2L and V2G:

It's worth noting here that the Ioniq 5 V2L is in effect a grid-forming inverter - it sets the voltage and frequency. If the Ioniq 5 does have V2G capability it will need to revert to being a grid-following inverter in order to play nicely with the grid (regardless of whether it's three phase capable).

There is likely to be someone in the Utrecht We Drive Solar V2G project who could "unofficially" confirm how that V2G mode is initiated. It makes sense to me that V2L and V2G connectors/EVSE would provide the communication (via resistors or otherwise) to the vehicle as to what mode it wants - grid-forming or grid-following - not the vehicle owner who may not know.

Thanks for sharing the info. I am an engineer so all was not surprising. The only thing I have no info is how close should I be to the 62 ohms and are the resistors need to be a matching pair. I guess they should not but that is just a guess. I assume there is a pull up in the car and a set of cooperators to determine the required mode.

 

Using a potentiometer, the acceptable range is roughly 50-75 ohm to provide V2L power.

Changing the resistance between 80 to 1000 ohm doesn't elicit any response in terms of V2L power. This makes sense on the PP as these would normally be used between the PP to PE to signal maximum cable current (eg. on a Type 2 to Type cable) as follows:

1500 Ω resistor – 13A cable
680 Ω resistor – 20A cable
220 Ω resistor – 32A cable
100 Ω resistor – 63A cable

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAE_J1772#Proximity_Pilot

I'm not sure whether there may be more advanced signalling on the Control Pilot (CP) in the case of V2G i.e. the bidirectional EVSE would use a more advanced version of current control using a similar PWM duty cycle as a standard EVSE would use to set current limits.

However, I noticed in a video on FullyCharged that Robin Berg from the We Drive Solar Utrecht project stated that they developed their AC charging stations with Renault to use the same protocol as Chademo and that they are now trialing the V2G with 25 Hyundai Ioniq 5 vehicles. Would be great to understand what that means and most importantly what charging station they are using and how that protocol (or updated protocol) is implemented for the Ioniq 5.

Interested in max combined V2L current

Back to V2L and it appears that it is only available on one phase. Unfortunately I don't know how the Inner V2L socket works as it is not available in Ioniq 5 is Australia. While the manual states it can be used simultaneously with the outside V2L connector, I suspect that they are sharing the same inverter/phase and total current limit of 16A.

If anyone can test pulling at least 10A from both the inner and outer V2L we could readily confirm whether it is a 16A limit.

I'd test that myself but it seems very difficult to find let alone buy an inner V2L socket. There is a spare socket in the ICCU to plug it in and I'm confident that it doesn't require any additional software/firmare for it to work.

Picture below from

 

Got 2 68 resistors. Will solder them some time this week and verify.
I hope the 0 ohms I have placed at the beginning will not do any harm. The car now detects the plug but I did not get any 230V at the output.
Since my son has an Ioniq5 as well I can double on his car if I suspect something is not working.
As for the inner V2L, I have seen on one of the Hyunadi clips that the inverter serves both inner and outer and support 16A overall.
In Israel the inner V2L is also not an option with Hyundai but in a few weeks the EV6 will arrive on the market. It is only the basic model so I assume it will not be included.

 

Excellent work here. Certainly no need to spend $500 on the official one when you can make your own with a connector and 2 resistors.
Anyone have a scope to see the waveform coming out of the car?

 

Question, for those that already have the IQ5 (waiting for mine to come in middle of next month), does the V2L under the second row seat work only if the car is on or is it always powered? If it does what the outside adapter does, may eliminate the need for the $549 expenditure.

 

Its only on when utility mode is active in the car.

 

The V2L can provide up too 3.6kw at 240v that's max.

So you can get that from either but not at same time.

Personally I find the inner socket tedious to use as the utility mode needs to be on first.

But my needs are mostly always outside the car so the V2L adaptor is the obvious choice for me.

 

I was looking to see if it were possible to get a 16a extension lead to plug in to the V2L as it feels like a waste to use a normal 13a one... all I found were 15a 'round pin' plugs or 16a commando plugs.

Anyone know if it would it be possible to use one of the commando ones, rewired to a normal UK plug, but with a 16a fuse (assuming that exists)?

 

If you were to build your own V2L adaptor that has a 16A 3 pin commando socket then you could plug in an off-the-shelf 16A extension cable like this one and a 16A to 13A powerboard like this one.

 

Would it be possible to develop a V2L adapter, for the US market, that would deliver 18A at 240V? That would make an awesome V2H backup in the event of power failure on the grid.

 

Nothing that I can see in our collective efforts to date suggests that the current limit could be increased above 16A nor that the adaptor would change the voltage and frequency that the ICCU is programmed to provide for the country/market.

If anyone would like to confirm if the US V2L adaptor is any different to the rest of the world, please get a multimeter and test the resistance between the PE and PP pins, and also between the CP and PE pins when the switch is both on and off. These test can be done without plugging in the V2L Adaptor into the car nor needing to disassemble the V2L adaptor.

It's very likely the results will be as follows (but if they're not then that may provide some hope to have the V2L adaptor provide a different voltage).

PP to PE = 62 ohms
CP to PE with switch on = 62 ohms

 

Sorry - typo above, now corrected - there's no connectivity between PE and CP when the switch is off.

 

When you get a chance could you confirm some resistance measurements to verify something for me?

PP to PE ( you already stated 62 ohms)
CP to PP (switch on and off) - if there are two 62 ohm resistors they would be in series with the switch on and show as 124 ohms in this case.
CP to PE (switch on and off)

I think there is one 62 ohm resistor between PP (Proximity Pilot) an PE (Protective Earth) which is identifying the connector as V2L as soon as it is plugged in.
Then there is a switch to connect CP (Control Pilot) to PP which is why it looks like another 62 ohm resistor.
Connecting CP to PP I think is what initiates the inverter to start supplying AC to the connected socket.
In the original post there is no connection between either CP or PP except the switch and the thermal fuse that are in series so opening the switch or the thermal fuse opening would both break the connection between CP and PP.

Just some observations as I have an Ioniq 5 but I am not paying over $400 USD for a overly fancy AC outlet connector that should cost less than $100.

Pete B.

 

I am just basing my assumption on the original post's images. There are no visible resistors in either place. I could maybe see the 62 ohm between PP and PE being built into the j1772 connector as it always has a resistor there of some value. The other resistor between CP and PE seems a lot less obvious since there doesn't appear to be any connection between CP and PE just between CP and PP via the thermal fuse and switch. I have a spare connector, I will have to dig it out and do some testing myself.

Pete B.

 

Waiting for your results.