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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ioniq sales surpass Hyundai?s expectations


Hyundai is targeting the true fleet sector with renewed vigour this year as it looks to reduce its penetration into the rental sector.
Fuelled by the market growth in contract hire and leasing, plus a raft of new products including the Ioniq and i30, the company is confident of also catching the coattails of a rise in PCH popularity as company car drivers opt out in favour of cash.
“The deals are just as good,” said Hyundai Motor UK president and CEO Tony Whitehorn. “PCH is rocketing for every manufacturer.”
He added: “We started rebalancing our rental business last year [registrations in the fourth quarter fell by 16%] and there will be another small reduction this year.”
Whitehorn is also seeing growth in demand for alternative fuels, which is outstripping his expectations.
In a full year on Ioniq we expected around 2,000 sales; in the first two months we have sold 1,600, mainly hybrid,” he said. “In March we were going to order 100; instead we have ordered 1,200. We are seeing a 50-50 split between retail and fleet but fleet is growing fast thanks to the Ioniq’s high residual value of 59% over three years/36,000 miles.”
He added: “Ioniq is a door-opener for us; it gets us in so we can talk about our other vehicles.”
However, despite the interest in alternatives, Whitehorn does not believe that diesel is dead. It continues to play a major role in fleet, especially for higher mileage operations.
“Another above 20,000 miles a year should be diesel. Fleets have to analyse what their employees are doing driving wise to have the right balance,” he said. “With all the froth around diesel, we have to guard against a reflex action into petrol and hybrid.”
With the Ioniq offering three powertrains in one package – electric vehicle, plug-in hybrid and hybrid – Whitehorn believes all cars will eventually offer every powertrain option on the same platform.
Hyundai is scheduled to launch 14 alternative fuel derivative vehicles between now and 2021, including a C-segment car and SUVs, starting next year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
what we need now is the Ioniq to go on variable service to reduce service cost even more, then watch the fleet managers swap out old diesel Mondeo's for Ioniqs


I mean how can they justify 10k service when the engine isn't running 1/3 of the time ???, I mean even my old 12 reg Skoda Fabia Greenline 1.2 TDi had variable service upto 18,000 miles or 2 years
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
my fabia was a star stop diesel, although admittedly not as often as the Ioniq :)


my only thought was it might go Variable in a year or so once they have collected data from early adopters like us as it a new engine with many new bits on
 

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I think diesel is on its way out in the mainstream and certainly below 2 litre size engines but I am not sure that hybrid or electric is the future.

Maybe they are a stepping stone before hydrogen.
Hydrogen has no chance at being anything other than a niche transport fuel. It's still a fossil fuel, and very inefficient when you factor in reforming, compressing, transporting to filling stations. And it has no infrastructure in place, whereas fully electric already has significant and rapidly expanding infrastructure. People can fill their EVs at home worldwide, but no one can fill a hydrogen vehicle anywhere except for a handful of places. Cheap and easy to build EV infrastructure can also scale at a very rapid pace but hydrogen cannot.

Let's compare the Model S to the Toyota Mirai, both costing ~$100K: the Tesla is big, fast, looks great/sexy, mass produced, available everywhere, can recharge everywhere, while the Toyota is small, slow, ugly, available almost nowhere, and can refuel almost nowhere.

Add to that there were 500,000+ EVs sold last year compared to how many FCV? No chance for hydrogen.
 

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@Rundmcuk I was about to get on the defensive till I read that last bit ;)
I'm happy as long as we go for the most environmentally friendly way of doing things. Electric cars are not perfect, another member posted about the depletion of rare metals for the tech and batteries they use for example. But when I see things like Land Rover going with recycled interiors and metals for its parts, Ioniq with a small but decent percentage of recycled materials in its dash and panelling, etc. I get excited and I know that its only a matter of time before we're driving around in recycled coke cans and plastic bottles. What a lot of people don't realise is that the technology and science behind it all has been there the whole time but the funding for such innovation is not. We've had Sun, wind and rain for billions of years but we're only now building wind farms? It's ridiculous really. Lol
Anyway, I can't wait for the day I don't feel like I'm getting cancer every time a diesel drives past.
 

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And after reading @marcel_g's post.. i take it back, electric cars are the future. Haha
 

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Hydrogen has no chance at being anything other than a niche transport fuel. It's still a fossil fuel.
Not true, it depends how you generate it, just like electricity. Generally hydrogen can be produced by hydrolysis of water, using electric current. It is, depending on how this electricity is generated, fossil or "green" fuel. The efficiency is lower indeed, but the range is far better and the weight much less. The technology has still to develop. Don't underestimate science!;)
 
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People probably said 20 yeas ago when the Prius was launched that electric or hybrid would never take over full petrol/diesel. I think Toyota have had the hybrid market to themselves until quite recently and I think hyundai will steal market share off them. Electric cars are a step in the right direction however they are not the cleanest cars as posted about how the batteries are made and the power station you are provided your electric from is more than likely burning fossil fuels.

I just said I wasn't sure electric was the future and maybe a stepping stone to something else maybe hydrogen. There are several manufacturers investing heavily in hydrogen now and government is providing funds for infrastructure. The costs of manufacture are always much more expensive initially as it all depends on how many you manufacture. As volumes increase cost per unit tends to come down
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
hydrogen is starting to make sense if you read http://www.ioniqforum.com/forum/60113-post38.html


shell have started building hydrogen electrolysis plants on motorway service stations (cobham services on J10 M25,first of 3 this year), using renewable electric to provide the power


that means no transport, no carbon foot print other that that used to make the plant a transport it to site


small start, but remember the sinclar C5 the first commercial electric vehicle and now we have the prius and ioniq :)
 

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Not true, it depends how you generate it, just like electricity. Generally hydrogen can be produced by hydrolysis of water, using electric current. It is, depending on how this electricity is generated, fossil or "green" fuel. The efficiency is lower indeed, but the range is far better and the weight much less. The technology has still to develop. Don't underestimate science!;)
This is true, you can get hydrogen from sources other than natural gas reforming, it's just that the energy efficiency difference with batteries is so big it's an order of magnitude difference. I also can't see how renewable hydrogen will ever be cheap enough to compete with batteries, which are still dropping in cost by 20% / year. As well, FCV are far more complex than EVs, even if the weight is lower, and I think the simpler systems will win out usually when it comes to consumer products.

And yes, science could come up with something, but we're in a desperate crisis and emissions need to start coming down dramatically by 2020, so we need to use the tech we've got, not pin our hopes on an unknown tech miracle happening. The tech we've got is wind, solar, and batteries, and even better, denser cities, bicycles, and public transit. We can have better than adequate charging infrastructure by 2020, but there's no way we'll have anything but sparsely scattered infrastructure for hydrogen by then.

Hydrogen might make sense eventually for ships and long haul trucking, but I can't see it ever becoming part of the personal vehicle market.
 

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hydrogen is starting to make sense if you read http://www.ioniqforum.com/forum/60113-post38.html


shell have started building hydrogen electrolysis plants on motorway service stations (cobham services on J10 M25,first of 3 this year), using renewable electric to provide the power


that means no transport, no carbon foot print other that that used to make the plant a transport it to site


small start, but remember the sinclar C5 the first commercial electric vehicle and now we have the prius and ioniq :)

Ok, maaaayyyyybe hydrogen might still become a viable technology. But only just maybe, and I think that article looks like a fossil fuel company seeing the writing on the wall and trying to figure out how to keep people coming to their filling stations.

I doubt hydrogen will replace batteries in the foreseeable future. The only reason that I'm on about this topic is that the $ and energy put into FCVs, which aren't a near term climate solution, could be put to better use on plug in vehicles, which are. It's great that people are actually driving FCVs with renewable hydrogen, but it's even greater that there are people driving plugins because there are so many more of them! :)
 

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Ok, maaaayyyyybe hydrogen might still become a viable technology. But only just maybe, and I think that article looks like a fossil fuel company seeing the writing on the wall and trying to figure out how to keep people coming to their filling stations.

I doubt hydrogen will replace batteries in the foreseeable future. The only reason that I'm on about this topic is that the $ and energy put into FCVs, which aren't a near term climate solution, could be put to better use on plug in vehicles, which are. It's great that people are actually driving FCVs with renewable hydrogen, but it's even greater that there are people driving plugins because there are so many more of them! :)
its a start as with everything it will take time to mature or die depending in the economics and uptake of the technology


only problems I see with EV's / battery tech is the recharge times, super capacitors are fine but the amount of power transfer to recharge a 30-50kwh battery in a few minutes is mind boggling, its fine for a phone / laptop battery but not in my mind an EV battery


I you have mass uptake of EV's the amount of power to replace the thousands of gallons of petrol / diesel used each day, could the current grid take that sort of load?
 

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People probably said 20 yeas ago when the Prius was launched that electric or hybrid would never take over full petrol/diesel. I think Toyota have had the hybrid market to themselves until quite recently and I think hyundai will steal market share off them. Electric cars are a step in the right direction however they are not the cleanest cars as posted about how the batteries are made and the power station you are provided your electric from is more than likely burning fossil fuels.

I just said I wasn't sure electric was the future and maybe a stepping stone to something else maybe hydrogen. There are several manufacturers investing heavily in hydrogen now and government is providing funds for infrastructure. The costs of manufacture are always much more expensive initially as it all depends on how many you manufacture. As volumes increase cost per unit tends to come down
True, electric are not the cleanest possible currently depending on your electrical grid. That being said, decarbonizing grids is a solvable problem, and the electrical grids in most places are getting cleaner all the time, with no indication that trend is going to stop. So your EV is cleaner 5yrs after you buy it than when you started. With the way that prices of solar and wind tech are dropping, they're going to dominate the electrical systems of the future. They are the cheapest form of electricity in many places already.

Yes, there is a lot of money invested in hydrogen tech, but it's not a viable near future climate solution, I don't think Fuel cell vehicles will be cheap enough or hydrogen infrastructure developed enough for the manufacturers to sell more than a few thousand a year. At those numbers, they're not going to cut emissions much at all, and I wish that that money and energy was used for something that would help with solving the climate crisis.

Plugins are already selling more than 500K per year, with a number of massive battery factories and new models due to come online in the very near future. They are going to get cheaper faster than FCVs, so a lot of analysts are expecting EV sales to continue to dramatically increase. That will be enough to make a difference in terms of emissions, and in terms of cutting into oil company revenues, which makes EVs an actual climate solution.

So I just have to disagree, electric is not just a stepping stone, and I don't think hydrogen tech will get to enough volume to bring prices down. Electric, on the other hand, will get to the point of massive volume and economies of scale in the next few years. Once the factories currently being built come online, I think most manufacturers will give up on hydrogen.
 

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only problems I see with EV's / battery tech is the recharge times, super capacitors are fine but the amount of power transfer to recharge a 30-50kwh battery in a few minutes is mind boggling, its fine for a phone / laptop battery but not in my mind an EV battery
Seems unlikely that super capacitor technology will be commercialized enough for vehicles in the next 10 years. I've been reading about their promise for 20 years now! But the deal is that capacitors should not suffer from the degradation that "normal" batteries of all sorts suffer.

But if they do, I suspect charging stations will have a buffer super capacitor bank of their own to make two minute charges practical.
 

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And of course in the UK there is a massive number of people who park their cars on the roadside or across the road, especially in this day and age with smaller houses being built in a more condensed space. Its going to get interesting walking to the shops, especially if you are blind!

Its not really been a problem for Tesla owners :)
 

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See my post No. 48 under "Mazda Claims..."
It's contents are relevant to this discussion also.
 

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I meant post 49.
 
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