Trading Ioniq 5 in for Model Y due to Charging Infrastructure

1714 Views 29 Replies 12 Participants Last post by zamafir, 16 d ago

mjordanvargas

Discussion Starter · 19 d ago

Decided to trade my my 2022 Ioniq 5 SE AWD in for a Tesla model Y LR. I really feel bad about trading it in since the Ioniq 5 has been a great car and I think is a better car than the Model Y. However, after 1 year and 31,000 miles, the CCS level 3 charging infrastructure has become too unreliable. I have almost been stranded a couple of times due to broken chargers, and have had one Electrify America charger not release the charger plug when the station when dead (not a pleasant experience 1000 miles away from home). I never know when I pull up if a charger is going to work. Many times the charger would start and work great for a few minutes than error out. By far the most numerous issues are with Electrify America stations. What is most frustrating is that Plugshare not longer accurately rates station that are not working.

I hope that Hyundai and other EV companies pool there resources to resolve the charging issues.

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HKtech

· #2 · 19 d ago

330 miles on full charge.... Y LR is not likely to happen.... 270-280 on full charge...
I had Tesla S long range 2021 and my mom still owns 2022 Model Y LR.... both of them only show on the paper EPA ( but reaching them in real life is not likely to happen).
Good luck and keep as updated on your new ride.

zamafir

· #3 · 19 d ago

HKtech said:
330 miles on full charge.... Y LR is not likely to happen.... 270-280 on full charge...
I had Tesla S long range 2021 and my mom still owns 2022 Model Y LR.... both of them only show on the paper EPA ( but reaching them in real life is not likely to happen).
Good luck and keep as updated on your new ride.

It's because they're the only automaker to use the 5 cycle EPA test figures to inflate numbers, everyone else uses the normal one which tends to be more conservative than real world while theirs is always more optimistic. My buddy with a 2022 M3P gets the same range as my 2022 IONIQ 5 Limited AWD.

Reactions: 3

HKtech

· #4 · 19 d ago

zamafir said:
It's because they're the only automaker to use the 5 cycle EPA test figures to inflate numbers, everyone else uses the normal one which tends to be more conservative than real world while theirs is always more optimistic. My buddy with a 2022 M3P gets the same range as my 2022 IONIQ 5 Limited AWD.

Tesla propulsion units are designed towards city driving efficiency....and interstate speeds makes this propulsion units much less efficient.
I had in the past old Tesla S long range and last one was 2021 and old one was more efficient at interstate speeds than 2021 with FWD ( majority of travel is done by FWD axle unless traction is needed on Model S).
With my Ioniq6 SE i have no problem exceeding EPA numbers doing 67 MPH on flat terrain and good weather conditions. So in my opinion, owning Tesla and now Hyundai..... Tesla only has one advantage..
. Tesla charging network and close to none not working stations.

Reactions: 1

HKtech

· #5 · 19 d ago

zamafir said:
It's because they're the only automaker to use the 5 cycle EPA test figures to inflate numbers, everyone else uses the normal one which tends to be more conservative than real world while theirs is always more optimistic. My buddy with a 2022 M3P gets the same range as my 2022 IONIQ 5 Limited AWD.

If you switch to 18 inches aerodynamic wheels from Ioniq6...you should have no problem exceeding EPA numbers without too much effort .

zamafir

· #6 · 19 d ago

HKtech said:
If you switch to 18 inches aerodynamic wheels from Ioniq6...you should have no problem exceeding EPA numbers without too much effort .

Oh, I'm well over EPA, I hit 290 miles no issues, it's more agreeing with you on how folks don't hit the tesla range because they use the over optimistic cycle to hype numbers. I'm looking forward to a Model 3 LR and IONIQ 6 SE comparison in the real world!

HKtech

· #7 · 19 d ago

zamafir said:
Oh, I'm well over EPA, I hit 290 miles no issues, it's more agreeing with you on how folks don't hit the tesla range because they use the over optimistic cycle to hype numbers. I'm looking forward to a Model 3 LR and IONIQ 6 SE comparison in the real world!

They are experimenting with new propulsion unit and inverter that is already been used on Model Y ( but inverter was not used)....
New Model 3 LR will be definitely less efficient than old Model 3. And if it comes with CATL LFP chemistry this would require more energy to keep this chemistry from freezing.

zamafir

· #8 · 19 d ago

Yup and the 4680 roll out has been really rough for them, meanwhile OEMs moving to manganese based cathodes in the lead up to solid state, so cool how fast the batteries and drivetrain are advancing with simple industry wide improvements every year!

Reactions: 1

voxel

· #9 · 19 d ago

HKtech said:
Tesla propulsion units are designed towards city driving efficiency....and interstate speeds makes this propulsion units much less efficient.
I had in the past old Tesla S long range and last one was 2021 and old one was more efficient at interstate speeds than 2021 with FWD ( majority of travel is done by FWD axle unless traction is needed on Model S).
With my Ioniq6 SE i have no problem exceeding EPA numbers doing 67 MPH on flat terrain and good weather conditions. So in my opinion, owning Tesla and now Hyundai..... Tesla only has one advantage..
. Tesla charging network and close to none not working stations.

The efficiency of the Ioniq 5 Limited AWD is nothing special. It’s the same (3.2 mi/kWh) as my Mach-E Premium AWD Extended Range but that has a 99 kWh gross battery vs 77-80 kWh battery on the Ioniq 5. Range wise I can get 30-50 miles more on the Mach-E. I drive both weekly and also alternate trips with them. I’ve never seen more than 260 on my Ioniq 5 GOM. Mainly because I drive 80% between 65-70mph in flat warm Florida.

My former Teslas were definitely more efficient (3.6-3.8 on Y and 4.2 on 3) but I did not care for the ride quality so I kept road trips to sub 250 miles. My former BMW i4 smoked all the above in efficiency and range though. Competition is heading up.

Chiptuck

· #10 · 19 d ago

zamafir said:
Yup and the 4680 roll out has been really rough for them, meanwhile OEMs moving to manganese based cathodes in the lead up to solid state, so cool how fast the batteries and drivetrain are advancing with simple industry wide improvements every year!

You all have hijacked this thread.

His complaint is the charging infrastructure in his geographic area and when traveling. He's not talking about speed of charging or range.

That being said I have to agree with him. Most are not bothering to make reports on Plugshare anymore as the newness has run out. There is no reliable way to know what to expect at your next stop. I got my car in Feb. of 2022 and since then there has been no EA or other new Level 3 chargers installed anywhere in my very populated area of the south central Pa. or even destinations to the shore resorts in MD and NJ. The closest one to me is along the turnpike 50 miles from my home. Free charging for two years is a joke. The Pa Turnpike is still a barren path for charging high speed. Travel into Pa. from Ohio sometime and stop at the first charger in Bedford. It's a 4 station stop with a wait time of over an hour to get spot on a weekend. There were 5 cars waiting some slow charging models.

No business is going to invest in new stations as they are way too expensive for their return on investment. Traveling in the northeast is like going on a scavenger hunt for chargers every time you travel. No one can expect EV's to become popular until they install the charging stations needed. This not being done anywhere.

The word is getting out to the general vehicle buying public that EV's are a joke. They vast majority want to gas and go. CA and some other urban areas may be an exception but elsewhere in the country, it just sucks.

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BigNerd

· #11 · 19 d ago

I'm in SoCal... and the charger situation isn't all that different... just more of them but if they are out... doesn't matter... also not as many EA chargers as Chargepoint and EVGo in my area.

I'm the opposite, just turned in my Y and got an SEL RWD Extended Ioniq 5. Did it partially for the free charging as I probably only SC'd 3 or 4 times with the Y as my EV is a local commuter. What I plan to do with the Ioniq is not charge it at home (still using 120v Level 1!) and just DCFC when it gets down to 10% which will save me some money on my home electric bill.

There is an article on Electrek about a new consortium to improve public charging:

electrek.co

ChargeX is a new group that's going to improve US public EV chargers – here's how

The EV industry consortium ChargeX's mission is to improve public EV charging reliability and usability by June 2025.

electrek.co

And there have been announcements from Walmart and other retailers about putting in fast chargers so hopefully the situation will improve.

Tesla SCs also opening up to non-Teslas but will probably be slow and not many.

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zamafir

· #12 · 19 d ago

BigNerd said:
Tesla SCs also opening up to non-Teslas but will probably be slow and not many.

Yeah. 2 in the largest ev market in the country, you hit the nail on the head for sure!

voxel

· #13 · 19 d ago

Chiptuck said:
You all have hijacked this thread.

His complaint is the charging infrastructure in his geographic area and when traveling. He's not talking about speed of charging or range.

That being said I have to agree with him. Most are not bothering to make reports on Plugshare anymore as the newness has run out. There is no reliable way to know what to expect at your next stop. I got my car in Feb. of 2022 and since then there has been no EA or other new Level 3 chargers installed anywhere in my very populated area of the south central Pa. or even destinations to the shore resorts in MD and NJ. The closest one to me is along the turnpike 50 miles from my home. Free charging for two years is a joke. The Pa Turnpike is still a barren path for charging high speed. Travel into Pa. from Ohio sometime and stop at the first charger in Bedford. It's a 4 station stop with a wait time of over an hour to get spot on a weekend. There were 5 cars waiting some slow charging models.

No business is going to invest in new stations as they are way too expensive for their return on investment. Traveling in the northeast is like going on a scavenger hunt for chargers every time you travel. No one can expect EV's to become popular until they install the charging stations needed. This not being done anywhere.

The word is getting out to the general vehicle buying public that EV's are a joke. They vast majority want to gas and go. CA and some other urban areas may be an exception but elsewhere in the country, it just sucks.

Even back in mid-2021 PlugShare was not very accurate. You are relying on folks to open the app and report positive and negative experience and my guess is less than 5% people do.

There’s no profit margin on DC charging so that’s why there is so little investment. Folks told me back in 2021 that we’d have CCS chargers everywhere by 2023 but I think public charging networks have gotten worse. So I definitely agree with you. While I’ve owned my share of Teslas and yes the network is amazing - the network still has major holes. I still recommend ICE cars for travel to rural areas. EVs should stick to interstates and cities. And that’s where EVs shine… they are a joy for urban commutes and short 200-400 mile trips. There’s no one size fits all for everybody though.

Reactions: 2

zamafir

· #14 · 19 d ago

voxel said:
Even back in mid-2021 PlugShare was not very accurate. You are relying on folks to open the app and report positive and negative experience and my guess is less than 5% people do.

There’s no profit margin on DC charging so that’s why there is so little investment. Folks told me back in 2021 that we’d have CCS chargers everywhere by 2023 but I think public charging networks have gotten worse. So I definitely agree with you. While I’ve owned my share of Teslas and yes the network is amazing - the network still has major holes. I still recommend ICE cars for travel to rural areas. EVs should stick to interstates and cities. And that’s where EVs shine… they are a joy for urban commutes and short 200-400 mile trips. There’s no one size fits all for everybody though.

Hydrogen!

/s

HKtech

· #15 · 19 d ago

voxel said:
The efficiency of the Ioniq 5 Limited AWD is nothing special. It’s the same (3.2 mi/kWh) as my Mach-E Premium AWD Extended Range but that has a 99 kWh gross battery vs 77-80 kWh battery on the Ioniq 5. Range wise I can get 30-50 miles more on the Mach-E. I drive both weekly and also alternate trips with them. I’ve never seen more than 260 on my Ioniq 5 GOM. Mainly because I drive 80% between 65-70mph in flat warm Florida.

My former Teslas were definitely more efficient (3.6-3.8 on Y and 4.2 on 3) but I did not care for the ride quality so I kept road trips to sub 250 miles. My former BMW i4 smoked all the above in efficiency and range though. Competition is heading up.

It is still far from 330 miles for Y model.... 270 or less is what Y is seeing in real world and 290-300 Model 3 on full charge.
Regarding BMW.... they have designed propulsion units for interstate speeds efficiency and only thing is holding them back on I4 is no ground up chassis design for EV.

zamafir

· #16 · 19 d ago

HKtech said:
It is still far from 330 miles for Y model.... 270 or less is what Y is seeing in real world and 290-300 Model 3 on full charge.
Regarding BMW.... they have designed propulsion units for interstate speeds efficiency and only thing is holding them back on I4 is no ground up chassis design for EV.

Yup, we should see that soon with the announcement of the new i4/i7

.

BigNerd

· #17 · 19 d ago

@mjordanvargas Have you test drove a Y?

Here are some of the reasons why I went from Y to I5:

1. Ride quality: This is subjective but here are many complaints about how harsh the Y is. The new models are supposed to be better but I had a 2021. The I5 feels much softer compared ot my older Y.
2. Passenger space: As big as the Y is, the Ioniq just feels roomier and the open floor space in the front row helps (instead of the center console that extends to the dash).
3. Driver display: Another hot button issue... but I just like stuff in front of me... I even bought one of those cheapie displays for the Y that shows drive mode, speed, lights etc.
4. Physical controls: I like the dedicate buttons for HVAC, vents, volume etc. Rumor is they are even removing the stalk controls from the 3/Y.

But cargo space wise and many other things like Phone As A Key is superior in the Y. You may like the Y better... it was good for me for over 2 years... but I drive multiple cars in my family and if I prefer to drive the Leaf (other than the size) over the Y, that was telling me something.

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Neil F

· #18 · 19 d ago

Back to the charging infrastructure I am visiting S FL and there are a lot of EA chargers Pull up an EA display and they are pretty populated. A number are close to each other and a lot of 350s THAT DELIVER 230-240

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mjordanvargas

Discussion Starter · #19 · 19 d ago

I do agree that the I5 is a better car as you outlined, but I average 30K miles per year and lack of reliable level 3 charging has become a deal breaker. I frequently drive over 100 miles one way and worry about finding a working charger to get home.

Yes - I test drove a Model Y and the "comfort" suspension system is stiffer than the I5, but still OK. Having driven the Y with "non-comfort" suspension- the comfort suspension is a big improvement. Sticking with the Y's base 19" wheels also makes the suspension more compliant.

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zamafir

· #20 · 19 d ago

I guess the charger part is odd to me but i get it's location specific in terms of driving (ie across the plains vs in town). I drove 189 miles yesterday and arrived home with 89 miles remaining. I'd never worry about needing to charge on a 200 mile round trip but do have charging at home which I get not everyone has. Enjoy the model y, hopefully you see much better mileage than most model y owners report, obviously the charging will be easier for sure.

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