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Interesting, I read that too, so taking the original owner as Hyundai, even buying out the lease is technically a second owner (because Hyundai is technically the first owner). My guess is they would be agreeable to somehow convey the lifetime warranty to the same original personal on the lease, but it definitely would need some confirmation by Hyundai in writing.
I did read somewhere that on a Hyundai lease buyout by the original leasee, Hyundai does convey all warranties as if the leasee purchased it new. It did not address the battery specifically though. I will have to find it again. It’s been months since I saw that. I did just find this.......interesting.....
“As a reward for your loyalty, when you lease or finance a new Hyundai with Hyundai Finance within 60 days of returning your lease, your vehicle Disposition (Turn-in) Fee will be covered up to $400.1 As an additional benefit of your Loyalty Reward, any Excess Wear and Use charges will also be covered up to $500. That’s a total reward of up to:
$900”
Towards your Turn-in Fee and Excess Wear and Use charges.
 

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I
I did read somewhere that on a Hyundai lease buyout by the original leasee, Hyundai does convey all warranties as if the leasee purchased it new. It did not address the battery specifically though. I will have to find it again. It’s been months since I saw that. I did just find this.......interesting.....
“As a reward for your loyalty, when you lease or finance a new Hyundai with Hyundai Finance within 60 days of returning your lease, your vehicle Disposition (Turn-in) Fee will be covered up to $400.1 As an additional benefit of your Loyalty Reward, any Excess Wear and Use charges will also be covered up to $500. That’s a total reward of up to:
$900”
Towards your Turn-in Fee and Excess Wear and Use charges.
i found it. It’s in the factory warranty manual: “Original Owner is defined as the first retail purchaser of the vehicle who took delivery of the vehicle on its date of first use. If the vehicle was first placed in service as a lease vehicle, and the lessee purchases the vehicle at the end of the lease, the 10 years/100,000 miles Powertrain Limited Warranty remains in effect.”
 

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Who was your salesman at Healey? I also leased from them and bought my previous car there too
 

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Discussion Starter #64
Who was your salesman at Healey? I also leased from them and bought my previous car there too
My salesperson was Patrick Jaffee, I spent alot of time speaking with Eddie the sales lead and Mike in service. Rich the dealership manage has been quite helpful.
 

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Discussion Starter #65
Day 36- Friday was the worst day. They did change the gearbox on the car Friday but the issue remains. A person at the dealership said that no type of swap is most likely NOT going to happen, and the buy back process could take 4-5 months of which I have to keep making payments, and keeping the car insured. My thoughts of getting a Kona are off the table. They though the idea of even asking for the upgrade because of the circumstances was absurd. His words were why would Hyundai or the dealership lose money on a car. No one going to pay the difference in the cars. In addition no one could answer what the difference would be or what other car might be a more suitable replacement. If the the exchange include the incentives or not, rebates or not.

Saturday The Dealership manager called and filled in some of the blanks and informed me about some emails that the regional reps have or are trying to have with the corporate people. Their suggestion is to completely buy back the car and close out my lease. He mentioned that even he was getting angered by the lack of movement on my claim and said he hopes to have a firm answer to the direction that Hyundai wants to move in Monday afternoon.

No mention of compensation for insurance payments or the three payments I have already made. No mention of reimbursement for charger and installation in my garage. Doubt I'll be able to swing an EV without the incentives and such. I think the base leaf came out to $379 a month. And I'm not a fan of the styling. The Bolt - is not me either.

I made a web page that sums up my plight, it may be humorous in a sad way. There are still quite a few typos and grammar issues. It was written in haste. But keeping that rant inside was killing me. Thanks for your support. Please feel free to share and tweet the website. I do not think voice my outrage could hurt anything.

 

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It looks like you will be due it all back In your pocket. Did you follow the law with certified letters etc? It looks like everything including your reg fees and all costs will go back to you.....

”If, within the period specified in subdivision (b) of this section, the manufacturer or its agents or authorized dealers are unable to repair or correct any defect or condition which substantially impairs the value of the motor vehicle to the consumer after a reasonable number of attempts, the manufacturer, at the option of the consumer, shall replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle, or accept return of the vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price or, if applicable, the lease price and any trade-in allowance plus fees and charges. Any return of a motor vehicle may, at the option of the consumer, be made to the dealer or other authorized agent of the manufacturer who sold such vehicle to the consumer or to the dealer or other authorized agent who attempted to repair or correct the defect or condition which necessitated the return and shall not be subject to any further shipping charges. Such fees and charges shall include but not be limited to all license fees, registration fees and any similar governmental charges, less an allowance for the consumer's use of the vehicle in excess of the first twelve thousand miles of operation pursuant to the mileage deduction formula defined in paragraph four of subdivision (a) of this section, and a reasonable allowance for any damage not attributable to normal wear or improvements.”

Be sure you follow the lemon law guidelines to a tee and you should be whole. This is not debatable by Hyundai or the dealer. it’s the Law.

I had to do it once for bad mismatched paint. When Ford got the certified letter, my car was repainted within 30 days.

Also post your VIN at some point so someone does not end up buying the Lemon again. Best of luck!

i am sure you are getting the proper advice, this quote came from https://www.lemonlaw.com/state-lemon-laws/NY/New-York-Lemon-Law-Statute.pdf. Which I am sure is your source as well.

My guess is you will not get compensation for the in home charger and car insurance but all else should be covered. If you are not driving it and it’s sitting at the dealer see if you can make a change in coverage to reduce your costs.
 

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"the manufacturer, at the option of the consumer, shall replace the motor vehicle with a comparable motor vehicle, or accept return of the vehicle from the consumer and refund to the consumer the full purchase price or, if applicable, the lease price and any trade-in allowance plus fees and charges."

This would seem to imply that the consumer, not the dealership/manufacturer, has the power to decide whether a new vehicle or refund is given.
 

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nburd is spot on, there may be very specific things that need to be done to set up and prosecute a lemon law case in New York. You may be able to study the law and do it yourself, however those with experience are more likely to know what to do, what usually works, and what words and phrases to use in the formal communications with the manufacturer. I am pretty sure that setting up a website is not one of the steps :) That's not intended as a slight, you are preaching the choir here, we feel your pain.

You might still want to consider a first meeting or phone call with a lawyer. If you don't feel like they are the right one for you, try another one (many lawyers do not charge for the first call or meeting, in part because you are not yet a client, until you sign on with them).
 

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Discussion Starter #69
The key word is comparable. They want to make the about the cost of the vehicle. Which it is not. Comparable means like for like. Is a car with navigation for a car with navigation. An electric car is not comparable to an Ice car.
They Hyundai have been good enough trying to fix the car but I fail to see the logic to go through all the effort and cost to repair the vehicle and stop short by not putting me in a different car. If you rent a budget car at hertz and they are out they upgrade you to a comparable car that might be in a different or better class. They do not refund your deposit and tell you where the bus stop is.
 

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The key word is comparable. They want to make the about the cost of the vehicle. Which it is not.
For you it is not, but within the confines of common practice and the law, it generally is. The law is predicated on the notion of what a 'reasonable person' would expect, and as such there is always wiggle room for a court deciding on a different 'reasonable person' expectation, but most I think would find that comparable means price/cost - if for no other reason than that it is the most meaningful common denominator in most transactions. It would also be improbable that a court would find Hyundai liable to swap a car of one monetary value for another at a higher level simply because they have similar features. Depending on jurisdiction, certainly, courts are typically much more fixated on the money.

Your example of the Hertz rental is really not at all helpful in this situation, firstly because Hertz would be under no obligation to rent a car to you in the first place, nor upgrade you to another tier if the one you want is not available, but also because you would be free to go to a different car rental outlet if Hertz can't appropriately service your needs. In this case, you're stuck because you already own the Ioniq that is not of sufficient standard to be acceptable for road use, so you have little option but deal with Hyundai for redress. They have you in somewhat of a bind as a result.

What you do have is the option to try Hyundai's responses via lemon laws. It seems reasonable to have held off on this so far while it seems that things could have gone your way with Hyundai being generally responsive and seeking to resolve the original fault, but now you seem to be in a dead-end with their cooperation faltering - perhaps in part since they have tried most of the solutions they can think of by now - it may be that a lawyer who specialises in lemon law actions is the next avenue to pursue. It doesn't seem likely to be detrimental to your interests at this point, not least because it looks like the buy-back process could take months, during which you are still obliged to pay for a vehicle you seem unable to use.

I apologise if the above seems to trivialise your circumstances and frustration - I would not want to do either. But sadly, those frustrations and the issues you have experienced with your car are rarely likely to feature much in a real-world resolution. Sadly, that's the nature of relatively poor consumer rights, and car manufacturers who are often too-well shielded by their dealerships.
 

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Discussion Starter #71
That was great. Thank you very much for that. and taking the time to respond. I do not think I’m at a stalemate with Hyundai. They have done everything to fix the car. And have kept the lines of communication open,
I was hoping that they would come back with a specific amount of how much more the Kona would be. They I could make an educated decision on whether I want to cover those Costs.

Speaking with another they mentioned that the dealer should have noticed this issue before the delivered the car. Making them liable for the incentive that I will lose. But I’m not sure that’s a good argument either.

Thanks to all who have commented.
you all have help me alot
 

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That was great. Thank you very much for that. and taking the time to respond. I do not think I’m at a stalemate with Hyundai. They have done everything to fix the car. And have kept the lines of communication open,
I was hoping that they would come back with a specific amount of how much more the Kona would be. They I could make an educated decision on whether I want to cover those Costs.

Speaking with another they mentioned that the dealer should have noticed this issue before the delivered the car. Making them liable for the incentive that I will lose. But I’m not sure that’s a good argument either.

Thanks to all who have commented.
you all have help me alot
I think the Incentive would be considered part of the "fees" you are owed back or at least returned to your granting organization. The dealer may have to return the rebate to them.
 

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It may be ironic, but the whole issue could be a defective, slightly off center wheel ruined the whole car experience for owner and possibly just shown how dumb dealers staff is sometimes. I think sometimes you need to take some initiative and propose the solutions that do not require costly repairs as those just proven - it has nothing to do with it. Even rotating tires from front to rear maybe enough to realize where the issue is. Sorry for your experience, hope you'll resolve it to your satisfaction.

I have Expedition for 18 years that does vibrate a little around 60-70 mph on the steering wheel. I thought of all kind of things that could be wrong. Then it was time to rotate tires and after that vibration moved to the back. So I thought may be one of the tires is defective causing this small vibration, but rebalancing did not resolve it. Then it was time to replace tires and the issue did not resolve again, so now I know it is one wheel disk has some internal weight anomaly. But I do not care as it is not important since I know the source of it and the fact there is nothing wrong with my car.
 

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That was great. Thank you very much for that. and taking the time to respond. I do not think I’m at a stalemate with Hyundai. They have done everything to fix the car. And have kept the lines of communication open,
I was hoping that they would come back with a specific amount of how much more the Kona would be. They I could make an educated decision on whether I want to cover those Costs.

Speaking with another they mentioned that the dealer should have noticed this issue before the delivered the car. Making them liable for the incentive that I will lose. But I’m not sure that’s a good argument either.

Thanks to all who have commented.
you all have help me alot
It's no secret on here that I work for a law firm, (and previously taught law), so it is inevitable that the legal aspect of issues such as the ones you raise are of the greatest interest to me. Hence my response of course. But while I think it is admirable that Hyundai have worked so hard to resolve the problem, and have kept the lines of communication open (neither of which is all that common), there does not seem to be a resolution in development that will satisfy your needs as a consumer of Hyundai's product.

A lawyer might not be able to get you there either, but if you do have legal redress in this situation, there is little doubt that the presence of a lawyer could serve to focus both Hyundai, and your attention on suitable outcomes. Not only that, but would almost certainly be in a position to do so without making a resolution into a combative challenge. Lawyers (good ones) are professional talkers, and I'd say this situation needs one of those rather than anything else.

That said, if you were hoping Hyundai would identify a monetary figure that would be necessary between their buy-back of the Ioniq and your purchase of the Kona, but you haven't pressed for this solution, now would be the right time to do so, simply because otherwise there's a palpable stalemate, where they seem unable to work out how to fix your car, and you can't accept it as it is. Whatever else, don't assume they will have considered any options, unless you raise them yourself - car manufacturers and dealers are not known for creative thinking, above and beyond glossy sales brochures.

Even if you have raised this possibility, it doesn't mean the option is dead because they refused it. Leverage it. "If you won't accept this option as a sensible way to resolve this problem, and you can't identify a way to actually make the vehicle fit for use on the roads as everyone else's Ioniq seems to be, then what are the options you can offer me instead." Eventually, plugging away at that is more likely to bend them towards it as a way to solve the problem than trying to find more parts to replace and repairs to make to your car. Eventually, (in essence), selling you the Kona even for a bit of a discount will become more financially sensible than throwing an expensive technician plus all the company's support infrastructure into a car that seems unable to be made usable.

As to whether the dealer should have noticed the problem before selling the car to you, the fact is that they didn't. Arguing that they should have really isn't going to get you much more than a bit of sympathy from corporate because they can't fix that, and because if the dealership had noticed, they should have rejected the car and had it returned to Hyundai, not passed it on to a customer. Realistically, when dealers do sell-on a vehicle with imperfections, they hold their hands up and say that it isn't feasible to spot everything in pre-delivery inspections. Courts (sorry, it's a compulsive go-to) tend to assume that mistakes are always possible and that everyone makes them. It tends to be only after a body of evidence emerges to show that it wasn't a mistake but a deliberate or willful ignoring of a material factor that they would find for you in this sort of situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #75
Since there were only 704 of there’s cars sold in the us and probably less than 5000 world wide and I seem to be the only one affected with this issue. ( I would think others would have sought out this forum if they had similar issues) Hyundai would want to prove they are the best company when it comes to customer satisfaction. Especially in this new market of EVs. The cost of being a hero in this situation is minimal. I would gladly take another ioniq ev. It’s probably the most complete car I’ve ever driven in my 54 years. I think the EV wave is the most exciting thing in The automotive industry that I have personally seen. I don’t see as too creative by corporate to bend a bit. I understand that if they wanted they could really make things difficult. Which they have not I’m just asking for them to do the little bit more in a very unusual situation.

I would like nothing more than to sing Hyundai and the dealers praises from the mountain top.



once again I can not thank you enough for your advise and input in this ordeal.
 

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Lawyers (good ones) are professional talkers, and I'd say this situation needs one of those rather than anything else.
Andy, I'm a lawyer too (IP, patents), couldn't agree more with your advice. What I do not know is how to find a good lemon law attorney for a situation like this. If I heard right, christopher is over in Rochester, NY. He might have decided not for now, but for the thread in general, how would you advise someone in a similar situation to find the right lawyer?
 

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Discussion Starter #77
I’m in the greater New York City area. And I kind of have the same question. As Hyundai is being very proactive and the car is still in service. The lemon law lawyer said I would have to take the car back then they could file a claim. However since they have not been able to complete the service I’m in a holding pattern.

I just spoke with corporate and my car does seem to be the only ioniq with this issue. Luck me. They may be able to work with the dealer on compensation for the Kona ultimate. I also offered to throw in to kitty to have the dealer agree to the more expensive car. As said the has a lot of the power.

the benefits to me would be that the lease deal and it’s buy out remains the same. the Kona seems nice enough and the extra range would help make more future proof.
it’s also worth some extra cash just to get this whole thing behind me.

Now all I need is to convince my wife this is the proper action.
 

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Andy, I'm a lawyer too (IP, patents), couldn't agree more with your advice. What I do not know is how to find a good lemon law attorney for a situation like this. If I heard right, christopher is over in Rochester, NY. He might have decided not for now, but for the thread in general, how would you advise someone in a similar situation to find the right lawyer?
I'm not familiar with the NYC area, but the problem I find most prevalent with lawyers in civil actions is that they fall into two often distinct camps: the ones who pursue settlements and those who are rather more keen to go to trial. The latter often make the most noise and seem the most desirable for would-be clients because it appears all about a decisive push to resolution. In a case like this however, I'd be far more inclined to look for a lawyer with a history of either out-of-court settlement, or mediated settlements - these are the group who ply the professional talker trade the best. In this situation, you don't necessarily want a lawyer who can lay down the law and then hit sport-mode to get you there, but one who can argue for a practical and sensible compromise that fits both sides. You'll usually get a better and less combative result that way, particularly because there's still the option of a date in court if all-else fails, and that will often focus the corporate mind on less expensive options.

Of course, the problem is that most lemon laws are relatively weak, but corporates will generally not want to end up in court. They're not so much worried about bad press from court reporting as cost. The consumer's attorney may have a billable rate of barely $200/hour, but a corporate trial lawyer is way more expensive for them to hire than that. If you imagine a confrontational civil action, what Hyundai and/or the dealer would lose by giving the OP a decent deal on his Ionic/Kona swap would be swallowed up in lawyer's fees in a fraction of the time the action would take to play out. They know this, and I'd bet they hope our OP here doesn't.

The NYCbar.org site could be a good place to start, but there are also many places online that offer reviews of lawyer services.
 

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I just spoke with corporate and my car does seem to be the only ioniq with this issue. Luck me. They may be able to work with the dealer on compensation for the Kona ultimate. I also offered to throw in to kitty to have the dealer agree to the more expensive car. As said the has a lot of the power.
You can be sure that a corporate spokesman will never admit that they have a common problem or someone else has suffered the same problem at all. Maybe, if there are two different vehicles in the same repairshop at the same time with the same problem, and then only maybe....

And why they tried to fix the car so adamantly is because of the manufacturing cost of the BEV compared to ICE. The motors and transmissions are relatively cheap and easy to procure compared to the battery and thus a good way to go. Any ICE vehicle has a higher markup that gives more negotiation room to the manufacturer (consumer paid more "air" that doesn't have to be replaced).
 

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You can be sure that a corporate spokesman will never admit that they have a common problem or someone else has suffered the same problem at all. Maybe, if there are two different vehicles in the same repairshop at the same time with the same problem, and then only maybe....

And why they tried to fix the car so adamantly is because of the manufacturing cost of the BEV compared to ICE. The motors and transmissions are relatively cheap and easy to procure compared to the battery and thus a good way to go. Any ICE vehicle has a higher markup that gives more negotiation room to the manufacturer (consumer paid more "air" that doesn't have to be replaced).
To be honest, Hyundai have never really shown much interest in shirking their responsibilities. Witness their engine replacement campaign for the range of vehicles fitted with (I think) the 2.0 Turbo ICE units, which have had a high failure rate. They accepted responsibility and have replaced engines, even outside the extended warranty periods they offered owners, while also not being reticent to let affected owners know there is a common problem.

That corporate culture is, I'd say, part of the reason they are keen to resolve the OP's problem here. There would be no reason to go out on such a limb and spend so much time, money and energy on a single-owner/vehicle issue otherwise, when stonewalling and passing the buck would have been a lot easier and cheaper.

While I'm as skeptical as the next man, I also think credit is due where it has been earned.
 
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