Hyundai IONIQ Forum banner

21 - 40 of 73 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
Also, maybe others could be interested, I created a calculated pid to give the time to charge to 45kW for 80%. Car gives for 100%


004_CALC Estimated time 45kW 80% Charge,45kW 80%C,2105,(MAX(0:28*(0.8-(af/200)))/45)*60,0,100,minutes,7E4
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
Thanks for testing this.
I just graphed some data from a car in Spain comparing GPS speed and the value for real speed from Torque.
Apart from a few glitches in the Torque data they are identical.



It confirms:
1/ The formula is mph
2/ The value for real speed exactly matches GPS speed.
3/ At one point the speed goes from zero to 655km implying the formula is signed. 1mph in reverse is displayed as -1

The updated formula is : Can you confirm it works.
003_VMCU Real Vehicle Speed,Real Speed,2101,((Signed(O)*256)+N)/100,0,180,mph,7E2
As long as your unit settings in Torque are set to show metric units the this will be converted to km/h automatically.


reald: thanks for that new formula. I can add to the extra gauges file
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,742 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
Hi again JejuSoul
I multiplied the formula by 1.609 to get km/h and compared to GPS speed which then was slightly lower (about 2%)
I then added a 0.98 multiplication and then the two speed indicators matched perfect.
What could be the reason for this 2% mismatch?
I use a Nexus 7 in the car now. I'll compare with the GPS speed in my phone, Samsung S7, and see if there is a difference.

It's great that we now have a real speed from the Ioniq. I have used the GPS speed so far for calculating my own consumption and available distance values.
I have one that's based on a 5 minutes average consumption and one of 15 min avg consumption. I have made them as distance to the turtle. I will now change to use the real speed instead.
But that's just a start for testing, I don't know if 5 and 15 minutes averages are the most useful.

My reason for doing this is that I have no idea how that is calculated by the car. If the battery is running low and I have to save energy I don't now if a change in driving style and speed is enough to get to my destination.
The first test using the 5 and 15 min averages was a success. I had to slow down a bit to get home (mainly due to a strong head wind) and stopped at home with 6% SOC.

This is what my main display in Torque looks like for the moment.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts
I just graphed some data from a car in Spain comparing GPS speed and the value for real speed from Torque.
No, that time I was in Portugal. Only the temperature log was from Spain.

I multiplied the formula by 1.609 to get km/h
If Torque does it automatically for us, it seems more terse to leave that responsability to it.

and compared to GPS speed which then was slightly lower (about 2%)
I then added a 0.98 multiplication and then the two speed indicators matched perfect.
What could be the reason for this 2% mismatch?
I also found that, only eyeballing the numbers. Did you actually do averages over a longer period?


I have one that's based on a 5 minutes average consumption and one of 15 min avg consumption. I have made them as distance to the turtle. I will now change to use the real speed instead.
But that's just a start for testing, I don't know if 5 and 15 minutes averages are the most useful.

My reason for doing this is that I have no idea how that is calculated by the car. If the battery is running low and I have to save energy I don't now if a change in driving style and speed is enough to get to my destination.
I agree with you entirely. We need a short-term estimate. But we also need to eliminate the height factor. Because, on a motorway, we never perceive well if we are climbing or descending...
We could remove it at least partially using GPS height (because we assume we won't be climbing the entire trip). Or, we could use accelerometer data and then also remove the acceleration.

Afterwards, I may ask what it was all about :)
Well, we have been reading and logging BMS data from the OBD port for a while now. JejuSoul is now looking again at data from another electronic control unit in the car (VMCU, vehicle management control unit) which has gears, speed as we now know, motor temperature, and more we don't know yet.

We have to supply him data, because he only has a Kia Soul EV.

Also on the horizon is the OBC (on-board charger). There is also discussion going on on JejuSoul's github, on the issues section. Many have the same nick there as they have here.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,742 Posts
Well, we have been reading and logging BMS data from the OBD port for a while now. JejuSoul is now looking again at data from another electronic control unit in the car (VMCU, vehicle management control unit) which has gears, speed as we now know, motor temperature, and more we don't know yet.
After googling a bit, related to a car, I found
BMS = Battery Management System
OBD = On-Board Diagnostics

Well, interesting. I'll read the thread again to see how this can be extracted. I might try myself, just for fun. Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
29 Posts
migle:
I haven't made an average of the two speeds yet, I will do that next week.
The strange thing with the 1.609 scaling is that I first added that PID manually into Torque. Later I made some more changes and imported my CVS-file again and then I had to remove the 1.609 to get the value in km/h. So Torque is doing the scaling, don't know why it didn't from start.
I haven't really thought of including height, maybe I will do some thinking and experiments with that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts
I might try myself, just for fun.
It's not only fun, it's also caring. We can read battery temperatures for instance. So, when we're taking a fast charge we may decide what to do based on that. 38 degrees? Fine. 42 already? Better stop. No wait, I'm already at the 55A phase, it won't heat more, let it go through the end.

I've been learning a lot. Let me suggest my posts with plots of this data: charging, discharging and this one.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
47 Posts
reald: thanks for that new formula. I can add to the extra gauges file

Yes, you can.


What I like about this pid is that it gives a good accuracy of the time required to charge at level 3 of 50kW to reach 80%. I think others could be interrested.
Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
490 Posts
Here is a list of the best seven Bluetooth ODB2 adapters. I have number 5 which works well with the PIDs of the Kia Soul EV/Ioniq EV. I got it from eBAy though and the price was about €15,-
Can you just leave this dongle plugged into the vehicle all the time? Are there any side effects to doing this?

OB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
421 Posts
Yes, sometimes it stays on and drains the 12V battery a bit. It's not as much of a problem as in a normal car, because the car periodically wakes up and checks the level of the 12V battery and fills it up again. It is even less of a problem if, being in North America, you already have the newer Li-Ion 12V battery. However...

Some people use an extension which has a switch.

Another consequence, because most of these devices have no security, anyone can pair their phone and communicate. It's doubtful that someone can do anything harmful. But we are only beginning to discover what we can read from the OBD port, someone else might be researching a different path.

Also, if you go for the expensive OBDLink LX, which is faster than other dongles because it uses Bluetooth 3.0HS, the phone app, Torque Pro, has specific features to put it in low power sleep mode and wake it up. It is also only possible to pair with this device by pressing a physical button. I'm considering that it might be worth the price (because the price lowered recently on www.scantool.net).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Another "rumor" is that 90% is usable and total capacity is 31 kWh. I hope this issue can be settled once and for all by these Torque readings.
I suspected it all alone. Ionic for sure behaves quite different(better) from other EVs while charging and when getting close to empty(I ran demo one to 5 miles left with no panic or cliff hanger like in Leaf; or Bolt which just shuts down with less than 25 miles left). It is easy to figure the upper buffer, but lower is not that easy as you need to go very low to figure it out. I would not be surprised if lower buffer even bigger than upper. Battery in Ionic behaves like bigger battery, may be even bigger than 31kWh, usually capacity is even number, so it would not be a stretch to assume 32kWh total capacity.
I setup Torque Pro relatively easy on Mac with Android File Transfer app. Just created (missing) "extendedpids" folder under ".Torque" folder, then dragged and dropped files to corresponding folders under .Torque folder on the phone. The rest is easy, but I had to battle with few OBD II Bluetooth adapters either not compatible with Torque Pro (BTLE LELink 2 and Veepeak - could not even pair, lol, it was WiFi). Finally, some no name ELM327 adapter paired and Torque Pro started to receive the data. I ordered recommended "Konnwei KW902" to stay away from any troubles in the future.

BTW, I think it should be relatively easy to determine how accurate SOC reported by OBD. Li-Ion batteries has very well documented voltages-to-SOC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
SOC BMS does not relate to the total capacity. It is another way to measure existing usable capacity. It will always vary between 2% and 95%. Hence it cannot be used to measure either deterioration or total capacity. If someone can show me I'm wrong I'd be pleased. It would be nice to finally have an answer to the question - what is the total capacity?
I think the only way to get closer to real capacity figure, by taking voltage measurement and it should very accurately point to SOC of the battery regardless of capacity. We know 28 kWh is usable. It should be possible to find those top and bottom buffers when we know the real SOC (not BMS nor Display). The only thing I would caution about: the voltage value-to-SOC during charge and discharge cycle could be quite different, so the best way is to stick to discharge cycle(no charger connected) voltage as it excludes any charger interference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Here is some readings I took on slightly discharged battery:

BMS SOC: 89.5%
Cell Voltage: 4.04V

It is known Li-Ion cell max voltage is 4.2V at 100%. So at least SOC and voltage do not match with SOC higher than voltage suggests. Have to dig more info and take readings at full charge.


Below is some info on Voltage vs. SOC of Li-Ion 18650 cell from other forum:
SilverFox
Li-Ion State of Charge and Voltage Measurements

There has been a lot of discussion on how to figure out the state of charge on Li-Ion cells by measuring their resting voltage.

I picked up some information on high current draws that gives the following values:

4.2V – 100%
4.1V – 87%
4.0V – 75%
3.9V – 55%
3.8V – 30%
3.5V – 0%

Please note that resting voltage means the cell has stabilized at room temperature and the voltage has also stabilized.

I decided to check a brand new 18650 cell at a defined current draw. This cell is a Pila 600P rated at 2200 mAh. The test current was 2 amps with a low voltage cut off of 2.8 volts.

At a 2 amp current draw, this is what I observed:

4.20 volts – 100%
3.97 volts – 80%
3.85 volts – 60%
3.77 volts – 40%
3.72 volts – 20%
3.58 volts – 0%

This cell tested at 2000 mAh capacity at 2 amps. I ran 2 amps for 400 mAh, then stopped the test to let the cell and voltage stabilize. I then continued to do this 5 times to come up with the values listed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Some interesting EV battery info

Yesterday, an opportunity presented itself to take measurements of the Ionic battery in turtle mode (4 miles range left) and then fully charged. Also, the good news that it delivered all reported 137 miles after last charge to 96%(Display). It also demonstrated the outstanding experience while handling low battery conditions all the way to 4 miles, including the turtle mode when remaining range flipped from 5 to 4 miles left without any hint of panic or freakiness (--- fits on Leaf), as it simply re-mapped accelerator sensitivity to reduce the risk of power surges that could trigger voltage drop below safety thresholds. That is my friends very, very rare occurrence in EV world. And, it is not incidental as later data capture suggested the reasons for this graceful handling.

I own home charger JuceBox 40 Pro and it is smart enough to figure out exact amount of charge delivered to the vehicle battery during charging sessions with nice graphing and time info (it knows its own efficiency and specific vehicle charger efficiency). The fact it is a pro version worked in my advantage as it stopped charging once it delivered 28kWh. This offered yet another opportunity to capture the battery state at 91.5%(BMS)/96%(Display) SOC. Later I have edited charger vehicle info and increased total capacity to 30kWh, so charger delivered more to 95%(BMS)/100%(Display) SOC. It will help with approximations later.

I took screen captures from JuceBox app. It is interesting to compare it to Leaf 24kWh.

Let's start with pictures first:

1. Leaf 15 SV 24 kWh:


Notice how long is the final 10% it takes and how erratic charging current becomes (fuzzy graph) and then 3 distinctive pops most likely attributed to active balancing attempts during charging.


2. Ionic phase 1 - 91.5%(BMS)/96%(Display) SOC




3. Ionic phase 2 - 95%(BMS)/100%(Display) SOC


Notice how quick is the finishing taper - most likely no active balancing takes place as it is rather quick and very steady current steps all the way to end of charging. Presence of those steps indicates the fact - it is enforced by the charger, not by battery getting close to full. This again suggests the battery capacity is bigger vs. disclosed figures. Probably by large number that one might guess. We can also compare to initial Leaf current tapper suggesting it is indeed battery induced (pattern close to analog noise, not well defined steps). Leaf' 8-10% top buffer would put usable capacity to 21.6-21.8kWh (observable/confirmed by many owners) out of 24kWh battery.

Also you might noticed the total charge delivered to the battery was 28+1.3 = 29.3 kWh. With an additional 4.5%(Display) SOC remaining - it would put total usable Ionic EV battery capacity to: 29.3+1.26 = 30.58 kWh. And this is below freezing temperatures. During summer it would most likely get over 31kWh usable capacity. So at this point we could settle on conclusion Ionic EV has 31 kWh usable for driving.

The remaining question is what is real battery capacity. The only reason we might want to know is to assess the durability of those usable figures over time. More excess capacity the better chances of not experiencing usable capacity degradation in the future.

I will continue later when I finished massaging the captured data, hopefully leading to a closer estimate of the real capacity of Ionic EV battery.

...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
689 Posts
Had a charge last week from 7% SOC and it took 28.1kWh from the charger to get to 100%. Calculated about 30.2kWh used cappacity. Car is almost two years old and at 30000km's. Same value as when I started, so I'm not running out of the safety margin of the BMS.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Just publishing raw figures obtained at turtle and following with 100% charge:

Turtle:
Battery Voltage: 320.7V
Average Cell Voltage: 3.341V
SOC BMS/Display: 5.5%/4.5%

Charge +28kWh:
Battery Voltage: 392.6V
Average Cell Voltage: 4.09V
SOC BMS/Display: 91.5%/96%

Charge +1.3kWh:
Battery Voltage: 396.8V
Average Cell Voltage: 4.133V
SOC BMS/Display: 95%/100%


Feel free to interpret those figures. I will get back to it a bit later.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
168 Posts
Finally, I was able to get near EA chargers with 51% battery after driving almost 80 miles on highways.

So lets compare what happened on 50kW free charger and EA $$ charger:

*** Public Free DC 50kWh charger
75% @ 392V*120A=47kW
78% @ 395V*109A=43kW
81% @ 394V*88A=35kW
86% @ 395V*59A=23kW
90% @ 398V*59A=23kW
92% @ 399V*45A=18kW

*** EA 150kW $$ charger. Total paid: $5.19, Energy delivered: 10.57 kWh, Max charging rate: 58.96 kW, Time: 00:13:00
53% @ 55 kW
62% @ 57kW
67% @ 58kW
77% @ 44kW
79% @ 36kW
82% @ 27kW
83% ended

According to evbox.com:hyundai-ioniq-electric: The max. charging capacity this car can handle is 70 kW.

So there could be an improvement in the warm weather to reach max charging rate of 70 kW.

What is interesting from the EA session? I got 32% battery charge boost with 10.57kWh, I used heater for less than 10 mins at 39F ambient temperature and car was 4F below target temp, so effort was minimal to keep it warm (1kWh*10/60=0.17kWh). You can observe the heater draw with rate boost from 57kW to 58 kW between 62 to 67 % SOC. So, what is total battery capacity usable really? (10.57-.17)/(32)*100= 32.5kWh. Not far away from my 32kWh usable battery capacity estimates based on what my car delivers and my own cell voltage vs. SOC research on Ionic EV with Torque Pro app.

It is good to have EA charger when you are in emergency, but charging cost would be more than buying gas and driving ICE car, unless your car can pull 150kW, or at list > 100kW to break even. EA charging is cheaper than EVgo and no membership fees. I am spoiled with free L2 chargers at work and other places I visit. I do not even bother to use free DC chargers 24-50 kW available around.

I wonder if anybody was able to get close to 70kW charging rate?
 
21 - 40 of 73 Posts
Top