[BAV]

Hi -

We are in the final stages between buying an Ioniq PHEV 19 vs a Prius Prime 20. It is hard to get good information as the dealers don't seem to know how the cars work very well. I think I like the Ioniq better, but they are close. Seems like the Ioniq is about 1200 cheaper and looks a heck of a lot better, and has better trunk space. And the plug is in a vastly superior location. And the warranty is amazing.

1. Can you remote start with blue link while the car is plugged in? And if not, does the blue link provide any added value?

2. We live in cold Boston and I know the ICE needs to start to provide heat, which we would need 4 or 5 months a year. However, if you are in EV mode is it still driving as an EV and just using the ICE for heat or does it convert to driving in HEV mode on cold days when the heat is running? In other words, does the plug in feature help with efficiency at all if you live in a cold climate or does it just drive as a HEV all winter long?

3. Should we hold out for a 2020 model? Is it better than the 19 model? They look the same and the 19 seems a bit cheaper. And we will drive until residual value is close to 0...15 years at least.

Thanks for any help. I hope to finalize soon!
Brian

 

[BlueNev]

2017 PHEV UK driver here...
1 - sorry I don't have blue link on phev 2017 in UK.
2 - the ICE runs at a fast idle speed to warm the cabin, demist the windscreen and charge the battery. That's all while the car is driving using just the EV motor. So it runs efficiently.
[I tend to drive the first mile in HEV, pressing the EV/HEV button but only if the ICE kicks in. It seldom drops below 0'C or 32'F where I live.]
3 - I am hoping to drive my 2017 PHEV until the wheels fall off too. It was a dealer sales managers car with 6 months and 8k on the clock with a substantial discount. 19 or 20 for you... I am not sure the extra tech would be worth the extra but that is your choice.

Prius vs Ioniq phev... Ugly vs good looking, Rubber band gearbox vs a 6 speed box with a fancy dual clutch gear box... (a robot driving the 6 speed box for you!). The early PHEV prius only had 4 seats vs 5 in the ioniq, which was no good for my family. The ioniq nearly drives itself... Lane keep assist and active cruise control.
The ioniq drives and looks like a normal car... The sports mode is fun too!

Good luck making up your minds.

 

[1stEV]

Basically ditto what @BlueNev has said!

I've been driving the 2019 for well over a year now and love it, however both the '19 & '20 each have their own merits. Believe it or not, the new model is not for everybody. Some current earlier owners actually do prefer most of their "Classic" model's features.

The 2020 Plug-in will of course, cost you more than the 2019 and offers a bigger dash display plus various other interior/exterior/electronic tweaks.

I'd suggest that you buy the best model & trim you can realistically afford, especially for your long term ownership plan.

But, I'm guessing you've already decided, so explore some more, then just buy it, you know you want to!

PS Welcome to the forum!
Edit Thought range was increased, but I was only dreaming.

 

[Chickenman]

As a long term user and fan of the VAG DSG gearbox the Ioniq DSG (or whatever they call it) was a major point in our purchase and we have not been disappointed. Would never buy a ICE with a lacky band transmission.
We love the understated looks of the Ioniq, would never consider a Prius just on that basis. That coming from an owner of Toyota commercial vehicles as they are clearly the most reliable long term.
The Ioniq LKAS is rubbish. The ACC is ok but not bringing the car to a full stop is very average. Maybe these elcheapo features are rectified in the new models.
Sports mode is crud, not sure why they call it that as the Ioniq is never going to be a Taycan. It should just be called "Full Hybrid mode" or something like that. Performance could only be described as adequate but that is really what the car is about anyway.
Hardly any difference from the first to current Plugin that I can see, at least here in Oz.

 

[builderpaul]

Hi, just picked up my 2019 limited last week. From upstate NY so I use the bluelink to start everyday.
Yes, bluelink starts car, as well as many other useful features (3 years free included with my lease). You also can set the climate control.
Heat comes from the ICE. ICE will run till cabin temp is reached then it will stop and car will go back to EV. My understanding is any power generated during this heat only run will charge the battery. For faster heat I start out in HEV mode for the first 10 min. this uses the engine for power and heats it much faster then at idle. Whe cabin is warm I switch to EV. With the heater on auto the engine will come on when heat is needed but it is surprising how little it is used with the heated seats, decent insulation, and some sun.
Tech changes so fast I lease and get new every 3 years. I think the 2020 have a faster charge ability and the infotainment screen is larger. Range still the same.

 

[bluioniq]

Hi -

We are in the final stages between buying an Ioniq PHEV 19 vs a Prius Prime 20. It is hard to get good information as the dealers don't seem to know how cars work very well. I think I like the Ioniq better, but they are close. Seems like the Ioniq is about 1200 cheaper and looks a heck of a lot better, and has better trunk space. And the plug is in a vastly superior location. And the warranty is amazing.

1. Can you remote start with B?luelink while the car is plugged in? And if not, does the blue link provide any added value?

2. We live in cold Boston and I know the ICE needs to start to provide heat, which we would need 4 or 5 months a year. However, if you are in EV mode is it still driving as an EV and just using the ICE for heat or does it convert to driving in HEV mode on cold days when the heat is running? In other words, does the plugin feature help with efficiency at all if you live in a cold climate or does it just drive as an HEV all winter long?

3. Should we hold out for a 2020 model? Is it better than the 19 models? They look the same and the 19 seems a bit cheaper. And we will drive until the residual value is close to 0...15 years at least.

Thanks for any help. I hope to finalize soon!
Brian

I live about 10 to 12 hours drive northwest of you. Your coldest winter day is an unusually warm day in Northern Ontario. That's my qualification for my next statement.
I set off every morning before dawn at less than 15*F ambient temp with the heating set to just below room temp. The ICE starts up right away and when it is beginning to produce interior heat I then switch to Sport Mode which will increase heat production and put out the highest battery charging output.
In the last 20 months, I have saved so much fuel that I just drive it like a normal car, which it isn't of course!
A conventional Fossil will cost you more in the colder months whereas in a PHEV providing heat also provides motive power reducing your overall consumption!
4 litres to 100klm. in summer and 3.6 litres winter !!

 

[bluioniq]

Hi, just picked up my 2019 limited last week. From upstate NY so I use the bluelink to start everyday.
Yes, bluelink starts car, as well as many other useful features (3 years free included with my lease). You also can set the climate control.
Heat comes from the ICE. ICE will run till cabin temp is reached then it will stop and car will go back to EV. My understanding is any power generated during this heat only run will charge the battery. For faster heat I start out in HEV mode for the first 10 min. this uses the engine for power and heats it much faster then at idle. Whe cabin is warm I switch to EV. With the heater on auto the engine will come on when heat is needed but it is surprising how little it is used with the heated seats, decent insulation, and some sun.
Tech changes so fast I lease and get new every 3 years. I think the 2020 have a faster charge ability and the infotainment screen is larger. Range still the same.

Welcome to the forum.
?

 

[maybeHyundai]

We love the understated looks of the Ioniq, would never consider a Prius just on that basis. That coming from an owner of Toyota commercial vehicles as they are clearly the most reliable long term.
The Ioniq LKAS is rubbish. The ACC is ok but not bringing the car to a full stop is very average. Maybe these elcheapo features are rectified in the new models.

What that is supposed to mean??? 'The ACC is ok but not bringing the car to a full stop is very average.' Ioniq is advertised (top trim) as having stop-and-go ACC. I doubt Hyundai is making different ACCs based on car models. It worked in Sonata thus I assume it must work perfectly in Ioniq (top trim). Maybe your Ioniq is not advertised as having and does not have full stop-and-go ACC. Both 2020 Canadian models have full stop-and-go ACC.
As for the 2019 vs. 2020 model, it depends on your budget. 2020 brings you bigger, nicer NAVI screen; most likely most bugs resolved; probably some additional tech features. For me it is a no brainer - I would get 2020, top trim. Mind you, 2020 model is not complete redesign so they kept engine, DCT, etc. The same as 2019 so there should be no surprises. Same sluggish, small, cute, very efficient car. Calculate how much are you going to save for the lifetime ownership of that car; for few grands more (or maybe $0) you could get bigger, more powerful, same or better tech car using 30% more gas. Choice is yours...

 

[Jonboy]

...

2. We live in cold Boston and I know the ICE needs to start to provide heat, which we would need 4 or 5 months a year. However, if you are in EV mode is it still driving as an EV and just using the ICE for heat or does it convert to driving in HEV mode on cold days when the heat is running? In other words, does the plug in feature help with efficiency at all if you live in a cold climate or does it just drive as a HEV all winter long?

...

I want to add one small detail to the answers that have been given on this. When you run in EV mode and turn on the heat, the engine runs at idle speed for a while or as needed to generate heat. It's not the same as HEV mode where the engine is running at power to propel the car. So it uses less gas than HEV mode.

However, if the temperature is very cold, say -12 deg F, then the car will display a message on the dash and it will revert to HEV mode. I had this happen on very cold winter mornings about three times last year. I suspect this is designed to protect the battery. It's not a big deal to me, it rarely happens, not at all this winter. And on those very cold winter mornings you will probably want heat as fast as possible anyway. But it might be helpful to know these things before you buy so you wont be surprised later.

I think the Hyundai engineers did a great job. I had a Honda before this and was very happy with the reliability and value. I kept my Civic for 16 years. If Honda or Toyota offered anything as good as the Ioniq in 2018 then I probably would have gotten one. My key features were value, efficiency, reliability, and styling. I felt the Ioniq was better than everything else I looked at. I guess I need to wait another 14 years to determine the reliability, but so far so good, and the warranty is better. I am very happy with my Ioniq and would recommend it highly. Good luck with your choices.

 

[BAV]

Without thanking each of you individually, which would take a long time, thanks collectively to you all. I was right that you guys know far more than any of the salespeople we've talked with. I am glad to hear that the ICE is only being used to heat the car, mostly. This was a concern of mine that I'd be buying a PHEV but only ever be driving as an HEV in the winter. That said the tax incentives (in MA totalling $6k) make the PHEV cheaper than the straight HEV.

We are base model people...we always buy the base model of any car we've ever owned. Though we haven't owned many as we drive them until they die. This will be replacing a 16 year old camry, that will be passed down to daughter and still actually drives pretty well. So for us it would be base model 19 or base model 20. Only tested the 19 and really like the ergonomics of the control panel with real nobs and such. Much nicer than many new cars that only have a touch screen.

It sounds like the blue link does start the car (even if plugged in?) which is huge for our life. I usually go out and start my wifes car 5 minutes before she goes to get the snow and ice to melt. I'm okay with burning a little gas to make it so she can see and be a little warm.

Back to price negotiations and test drives this weekend. We've effectively ruled out the prius prime for one stupid but meaningful reason to us...the charging panel is in a place that is very far from our outlet and would sorta make charging a real pain especially on a cold day. Well that and the trunk is terrible...it is raised above the opening. Silly stuff but stuff they could have thought of.

Again, thanks. This forum is an amazing resource of people who know what they are talking about. I spent several hours reading through posts.

 

[yticolev]

I want to add one small detail to the answers that have been given on this. When you run in EV mode and turn on the heat, the engine runs at idle speed for a while or as needed to generate heat. It's not the same as HEV mode where the engine is running at power to propel the car. So it uses less gas than HEV

I disagree. ICE is only about 40% efficient at best. If you use 100% of ICE output just for the waste heat, it is costing you about 40% in lost energy from gasoline burned. If the PHEV loaded the engine to the max with the HSG charging the battery (it doesn’t) it still would not be as efficient as using the same amount of gasoline to directly drive the wheels.

As a side benefit of forcing the engine clutch to engage when cold is the cabin will warm faster.

If the gasoline was burned as an external combustion heater so that close to 100% of the energy goes into heating the cabin, well that might be a different story.

 

[Chickenman]

What that is supposed to mean??? 'The ACC is ok but not bringing the car to a full stop is very average.' Ioniq is advertised (top trim) as having stop-and-go ACC. I doubt Hyundai is making different ACCs based on car models. It worked in Sonata thus I assume it must work perfectly in Ioniq (top trim). Maybe your Ioniq is not advertised as having and does not have full stop-and-go ACC. Both 2020 Canadian models have full stop-and-go ACC.
As for the 2019 vs. 2020 model, it depends on your budget. 2020 brings you bigger, nicer NAVI screen; most likely most bugs resolved; probably some additional tech features. For me it is a no brainer - I would get 2020, top trim. Mind you, 2020 model is not complete redesign so they kept engine, DCT, etc. The same as 2019 so there should be no surprises. Same sluggish, small, cute, very efficient car. Calculate how much are you going to save for the lifetime ownership of that car; for few grands more (or maybe $0) you could get bigger, more powerful, same or better tech car using 30% more gas. Choice is yours...

You will have seen that I said that the very average ACC may have been rectified on the newer models. Apparently it has if you are correct.
There is no way I would assume that something in a different model will be the same as another. But if it says the new car has full stop then it probably does. I would be test driving to find out.
Out here the value of <2020 Ioniq models are in free fall. The actual feature difference between say an 18 and 20 model is pretty damn slight. A 5,000km demo 2018 lower level Ioniq is nearly half the price of a new top 2020. As you say you get a bigger screen + full stop/go, plus leather. I actually prefer the nice cloth trim, much harder wearing. Plus it doesn't get hot but since you guys are talking about snow I assume that burning hot seats is not a great issue for you. Screen is a screen, I couldn't care less. Yes the stop/go is better but I wouldn't pay extra for it.
For the price difference of $20K. As far as I am concerned the no brainer is to save the money.
Maybe you don't have the same bad resale value as we have but I bet there is big savings to be had on slightly used base model units. There really is not much difference between the 2, it is mostly window dressing.
Plus I am always happy to buy slightly used as I reckon the first guy probably takes better car of his car than I do...

 

[Jonboy]

I disagree. ICE is only about 40% efficient at best. If you use 100% of ICE output just for the waste heat, it is costing you about 40% in lost energy from gasoline burned. If the PHEV loaded the engine to the max with the HSG charging the battery (it doesn’t) it still would not be as efficient as using the same amount of gasoline to directly drive the wheels.

As a side benefit of forcing the engine clutch to engage when cold is the cabin will warm faster.

If the gasoline was burned as an external combustion heater so that close to 100% of the energy goes into heating the cabin, well that might be a different story.

I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Or maybe you didn't understand what I was trying to say?

Lets say I have a 5 mile drive to work. One morning I set off to work in HEV mode. The engine starts, revs up as I accelerate away, and continues to run at speed as I drive for the 10 minutes it takes to get to work. When I get to work the car has used about 1/10 gallon of gas.

The next day I set off to work in EV mode. Its cold out so I immediately turn on the heat. The engine starts up and idles for 10 minutes during my commute. At this point I don't really care how efficiently it converts gasoline to usable energy or how much energy is used for heating, or how much energy is used to propel the car, or what percent is used to recharge the battery. I just know its been idling for 10 minutes as opposed to running at speed for 10 minutes. So it has used less than 1/10 gallon of gas.

Which is why I said that running in EV mode with the heat on uses less gas then running in HEV mode. For longer trips, after the engine warms up it will shut off, but still provide heat, and then run only as needed, using even less gas.

There must have been some misunderstanding. Sorry if it was mine.

Edit: The 1/10 gallon is just a quick estimate, not measured. The actual number doesn't matter since its relative.

 

[yticolev]

No misunderstanding. Not sure if your figures are correct: how do you measure 1/10 of a gallon used? - you also can go into EV mode minutes earlier having warmed the water sufficiently for cabin heat. But it doesn't really matter. You got some actual miles out of the consumed gasoline in HEV mode that you did not in EV mode. My contention is that in terms of energy used constructively, you came out ahead in the HEV scenario. You may or may not come out ahead in dollar terms depending on what the two forms of energy cost. The same unknown applies to CO2 cost.

I have only the HEV, but I drive it in a similar manner I put to you, for the same fundamental reason, to conserve energy expenditure from gasoline. When I take off in cold weather (I always have the HVAC off until I've driving at least 6 minutes or so), I'm in EV mode but the engine is on to warm the engine (not the cabin). My instant mpg gauge is near bottom. At the stop sign two blocks from my house where I turn onto a street that turns into a secondary highway, I accelerate near briskly to ensure the engine clutch engages, and continue up to about 40 mph where the car shifts into a higher gear. At that point, my instant mpg is perhaps five times more than when I started. And as I mentioned, as a bonus, the engine warms up faster, allowing me to get hot air out of the vent faster when I turn on the fan.

 

[Jonboy]

I edited my previous post to indicate the 1/10 gallon is just an estimate. Thanks for your input. I enjoy reading your and other insightful posts on this forum.

 

[Steel188]

As a long term user and fan of the VAG DSG gearbox the Ioniq DSG (or whatever they call it) was a major point in our purchase and we have not been disappointed. Would never buy a ICE with a lacky band transmission.
We love the understated looks of the Ioniq, would never consider a Prius just on that basis. That coming from an owner of Toyota commercial vehicles as they are clearly the most reliable long term.
The Ioniq LKAS is rubbish. The ACC is ok but not bringing the car to a full stop is very average. Maybe these elcheapo features are rectified in the new models.
Sports mode is crud, not sure why they call it that as the Ioniq is never going to be a Taycan. It should just be called "Full Hybrid mode" or something like that. Performance could only be described as adequate but that is really what the car is about anyway.
Hardly any difference from the first to current Plugin that I can see, at least here in Oz.

Had my UK spec 2020 1st Edition for a week and already done 1000 miles and can confirm the the ACC does bring the car to a complete stop behind the vehicle its been ‘following’ and then offers you the choice to pull away by just flicking the steering wheel activation switch. Spooky and scary at the same time but made me smile!

 

[JimCT]

W

Without thanking each of you individually, which would take a long time, thanks collectively to you all. I was right that you guys know far more than any of the salespeople we've talked with. I am glad to hear that the ICE is only being used to heat the car, mostly. This was a concern of mine that I'd be buying a PHEV but only ever be driving as an HEV in the winter. That said the tax incentives (in MA totalling $6k) make the PHEV cheaper than the straight HEV.

We are base model people...we always buy the base model of any car we've ever owned. Though we haven't owned many as we drive them until they die. This will be replacing a 16 year old camry, that will be passed down to daughter and still actually drives pretty well. So for us it would be base model 19 or base model 20. Only tested the 19 and really like the ergonomics of the control panel with real nobs and such. Much nicer than many new cars that only have a touch screen.

It sounds like the blue link does start the car (even if plugged in?) which is huge for our life. I usually go out and start my wifes car 5 minutes before she goes to get the snow and ice to melt. I'm okay with burning a little gas to make it so she can see and be a little warm.

Back to price negotiations and test drives this weekend. We've effectively ruled out the prius prime for one stupid but meaningful reason to us...the charging panel is in a place that is very far from our outlet and would sorta make charging a real pain especially on a cold day. Well that and the trunk is terrible...it is raised above the opening. Silly stuff but stuff they could have thought of.

Again, thanks. This forum is an amazing resource of people who know what they are talking about. I spent several hours reading through posts.

We live in Connecticut, and almost never warm up cars before driving. The PHEV lives in the garage between drives, and my wife likes the car warm, so we are usually ICE/HEV (probably more than necessary) in the winter. On most days, if I am alone, and on a short drive, the seat heaters alone are sufficient.

If the 2020 US-version comes with a heated steering wheel, that would be a very nice feature.

Regarding performance, if you are merging onto I95 or I93, and if the traffic is actually moving (a mighty big assumption) you can nail it, flick the paddle shifter (for a short burst of sport mode) and merge easily into the flow.

I find the BlueLink to be pretty useless; it's free for three years, but unless it is improved, I would not pay an extra dollar for it.

We do a lot of fussing over details on the forum, but you can also just drive it like a normal car, and still be very satisfied.

Good luck on the final purchase!

 

[Chickenman]

I think all you guys who need seat and steering wheel heaters should move somewhere warm.
?

 

[Ronmontreal]

I don't really understand what you are trying to say. Or maybe you didn't understand what I was trying to say?

Lets say I have a 5 mile drive to work. One morning I set off to work in HEV mode. The engine starts, revs up as I accelerate away, and continues to run at speed as I drive for the 10 minutes it takes to get to work. When I get to work the car has used about 1/10 gallon of gas.

The next day I set off to work in EV mode. Its cold out so I immediately turn on the heat. The engine starts up and idles for 10 minutes during my commute. At this point I don't really care how efficiently it converts gasoline to usable energy or how much energy is used for heating, or how much energy is used to propel the car, or what percent is used to recharge the battery. I just know its been idling for 10 minutes as opposed to running at speed for 10 minutes. So it has used less than 1/10 gallon of gas.

Which is why I said that running in EV mode with the heat on uses less gas then running in HEV mode. For longer trips, after the engine warms up it will shut off, but still provide heat, and then run only as needed, using even less gas.

There must have been some misunderstanding. Sorry if it was mine.

Edit: The 1/10 gallon is just a quick estimate, not measured. The actual number doesn't matter since its relative.

That was my understanding Jonboy. I think your overview was clear and my experience in cold weather reflects that.
I was confused as well. I think we're overly complicating a simple issue. As u said, Electric mode is more fuel efficient than hybrid.
Heat up the cabin and drive in EV as long as you can. Period.
Ron

 

[yticolev]

I think all you guys who need seat and steering wheel heaters should move somewhere warm.
?

Somewhere with a good bush fire to boil our billy?