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Discussion Starter #1
Hi there everyone I'm about to fill up my 2019 Ionic Hybrid and was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on advantages /disadvantages of using premium unleaded. I was thinking about using it for alternate fill ups but not sure if it is worth the extra cost. Any comments on the subject welcomed. Looks like I'll be getting 600+ miles from my first tank full which I drove away from the dealers with when I purchased the car.
Many thanks
 

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this has been discussed several time,

the overall opinion was that you would not get any performance gain due to the design of the engine but may benefit from the additional cleaning additives if my memory serves me correctly
 

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Premium fuel is more effective with turbo engines . I've used regular for almost 4 years .Wasting money buying premium
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the reply. I wasn't really looking for anything performance wise I was more interested in the economy advantage mpg. I'll try a tank full every now and then and see if there is anything to be gained.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Thanks chunga68 I will stick with good old petrol I think. Was thinking the extra cost may not be worth it.
 

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The main problem is the amount of ethanol in the cheaper grades of fuel, if the fuel is used very slowly it will absorb water from the atmosphere and eventually cause corrosion in the fuel system, ( long term)
The premium fuel has lower amounts of ethanol so is better long term if left standing about, supposable Esso premium fuel doesn’t have ethanol in it yet, but probably only a question of time,
 

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Almost all grades use 5% Ethanol in the UK now ,even Premium . As you say it's a matter of time before all do . I'm still not convinced of the benefits of ethanol because it lowers the fuel efficiency and ,therefore , you buy more fuel to travel the same distance .
 

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I wasn't really looking for anything performance wise I was more interested in the economy advantage mpg.
I switched to premium in my old car as it was claimed online that it would get better fuel economy, but I found that it made zero difference.

Note: It did gain both 31 horsepower and 31 ft-lbs of torque (and I have the dyno runs to prove it), but only because it had variable valve timing and a dual mapped ECU that could take advantage of premium fuel. Premium fuel prevents pre-detonation, which is critical in high compression engines but not at all a factor for the Ioniq's Atkinson cycle engine. I never did go back to regular in that old car, it was too fun not to stay on premium...
 
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In the US I have seen no advantage using premium fuel in the Ioniq. It is just throwing money down the drain. Just do the suggested service and you will get the performance and mileage the vehicle was designed to get.
 

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Use the octane of fuel that is recommended in the owner's manual.

In the US, "premium" fuel doesn't mean more detergents or less ethanol, it means higher octane and nothing else.

There's no advantage to using a fuel that resists burning more (higher octane) if the engine wasn't built for it.

I've never had injector issues on any vehicle, so I'm fine with the standard federally regulated amount of detergent and will simply buy the cheapest fuel I can find. That said, some of the cheapest stations around are now "TopTier", meaning they contain a higher level of detergent. These stations include Costco and Arco.
 

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Hi there everyone I'm about to fill up my 2019 Ionic Hybrid and was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on advantages /disadvantages of using premium unleaded. I was thinking about using it for alternate fill ups but not sure if it is worth the extra cost. Any comments on the subject welcomed. Looks like I'll be getting 600+ miles from my first tank full which I drove away from the dealers with when I purchased the car.
Many thanks
Every body has an opinion. That's ok. But facts are not opinions, they are facts. Your car is powered by an Atkinson Cycle engine. It has, if memory serves me a 12.4 to 1 compression ratio. Premium grade gasoline (92/94 octane) burns slower than regular (86/87 octane), and therefore causes less knocking when the engine is under load, which in turn allows the engine to retard the spark less, which then (because of the advanced spark timing) creates more horse power. This is all monitored by the computer and the knock sensors, and adjusted on the fly. So even though the manufacturer has written the engine spark timing software to retard the timing when the engine experiences spark knock, and thus stop the engine damaging knocking, it also allows the engine to take advantage of full advance which will allow the engine to produce more (full) horse power on the high octane stuff.

Now if acceleration means little to you, then by all means use the cheapest, lowest octane gas you can find. As long as it meets tier one specs of course.
But if getting the full rated horse power you paid for is more important, then get the good stuff.
Which ever way you go, it doesn't really matter much because of how little you're going to use. (Maybe a buck or two per fill up.? C'mon, you throw away more than that on a cup of coffee.)
How much gas a month are you using? 10 gallons? Oh please. Stop fretting over such a small amount.
It might have made a difference to your pocketbook if you were using 200 gallons a month. But you're getting between 50 and 60 mpg, so spend the extra 2 bucks and enjoy the extra hp when you want to.
 

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Has it been shown that higher octane fuel results in the engine advancing the timing?

I can tell the difference between premium and regular fuel just in drivability in my TSX, but it was designed to utilize 91 PON. I can confirm the differences by observing the ignition advance.
 

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Has it been shown that higher octane fuel results in the engine advancing the timing?

I can tell the difference between premium and regular fuel just in drivability in my TSX, but it was designed to utilize 91 PON. I can confirm the differences by observing the ignition advance.
Sorry, but I don't understand what your point is here.
The engine will automatically run at full advance until it senses engine knock, then will gradually retard the timing until the knocking goes away. This, of course all happens in thousandths of a second.
If the octane is high enough for the load conditions, then the engine timing will remain at full advance.
If the octane is too low for the load conditions, and knocking is sensed, then the software will retard the timing.
But the more the timing is retarded, the lower will be the hp output.
Maximum timing = maximum hp
Retarded timing = reduced hp
It's really that simple.
 

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Sorry, but I don't understand what your point is here.
The engine will automatically run at full advance until it senses engine knock, then will gradually retard the timing until the knocking goes away. This, of course all happens in thousandths of a second.
If the octane is high enough for the load conditions, then the engine timing will remain at full advance.
If the octane is too low for the load conditions, and knocking is sensed, then the software will retard the timing.
But the more the timing is retarded, the lower will be the hp output.
Maximum timing = maximum hp
Retarded timing = reduced hp
It's really that simple.
In the English written language, a "?" is not a point, but a solicitation for an answer.

You've provided the correct theoretical framework, and I was asking if someone has used instrumentation to observe the advantage of premium fuel in the Ioniq, or otherwise performed a dyno comparison of (whatever is specified for the Ioniq) and premium.

In my day to day driving, I spend about 0.001% of the time at wide open throttle, so the advantage of more horsepower (assuming I would get it), and the resultant hundreths of a second faster acceleration to 60 would not be worth $2 more per fill-up to me. I don't begrudge anyone who would find value in hundreths of a second faster acceleration and are willing to spend extra to do so.
 

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The main problem is the amount of ethanol in the cheaper grades of fuel, if the fuel is used very slowly it will absorb water from the atmosphere and eventually cause corrosion in the fuel system, ( long term)
The premium fuel has lower amounts of ethanol so is better long term if left standing about, supposable Esso premium fuel doesn’t have ethanol in it yet, but probably only a question of time,
The Kappa engine is a modern engine design and thus built to withstand rubber component degradation and corrosion which hardly happens in modern fuel systems anyway.
 

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In the English written language, a "?" is not a point, but a solicitation for an answer.

You've provided the correct theoretical framework, and I was asking if someone has used instrumentation to observe the advantage of premium fuel in the Ioniq, or otherwise performed a dyno comparison of (whatever is specified for the Ioniq) and premium.

In my day to day driving, I spend about 0.001% of the time at wide open throttle, so the advantage of more horsepower (assuming I would get it), and the resultant hundreths of a second faster acceleration to 60 would not be worth $2 more per fill-up to me. I don't begrudge anyone who would find value in hundreths of a second faster acceleration and are willing to spend extra to do so.
So you basically answered your own question. You don't care if you have maximum performance because you have little to no use for it.
That's ok. None of us who bought an Ionic thought we were getting a rocket ship.

But to answer your technical question...the only entity who spent that much money fretting over such a trivial concern was Hyundai Engineering.
They deigned the engine not to self destruct on regular fuel for at least 10 years using cheap gas.
Ask them. I'm sure you'll be fascinated reading the white paper. It's only about 400 some pages long.

But.
I think you missed the point.
When it comes to the internal combustion engine, it is not theoretical to say that full advance produces maximum hp.
It's a proven fact.
And higher hp is not just produced at maximum rpm.
More hp will be produced across the rpm range, so long as the timing runs at the full advanced state while the engine is under load.
Full advance is dictated by the design of the engine ( In our case it's Atkinson) plus the high compression ratio (12.4 to 1) and the octane of the gas being used.
None of which is theoretical.

And if $2 really means so much to you, why did you spend so much extra for the hybrid?
You could have purchased a comparable auto and used the difference to buy gasoline, insurance, license plates..etc.
That also is not theoretical. It is variable, but not theoretical.
Our hybrids, depending on how much we drive them, will have to be used for 5 to 10 years before the extra "hybrid" cost breaks even.
Like I said, if getting what you paid for, means little to you, ( 139 advertised hp) then you are worrying about something, just to worry about it.

If you always drive your car like a 90 year old lady with impaired vision, then buy the cheapest gas you can find, and stop being concerned about fuel mileage.
You have the best. (Even the Prius isn't this good.)
You'll get just about the same with either grade of gas.
But if you want some extra hp to get your ride up to speed sooner, or to pass someone, or to haul 4 heavy adults, then use an octane that allows the engine to produce all that it can.
You don't have to drive at full throttle to take advantage of the higher octane.

Your Ionic makes about 123 hp on low octane, and 139 hp on high octane. Those numbers are from Hyundai under ideal laboratory conditions.
Our Ionics only need about 60+ hp to keep them going 75mph out on the open road, so those maximum hp numbers don't really matter much.
You won't be able to "feel" the difference in the seat of your pants either.
It takes real instrumentation to see the difference.
 

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So you basically answered your own question. You don't care if you have maximum performance because you have little to no use for it.
That's ok. None of us who bought an Ionic thought we were getting a rocket ship.

But to answer your technical question...the only entity who spent that much money fretting over such a trivial concern was Hyundai Engineering.
They deigned the engine not to self destruct on regular fuel for at least 10 years using cheap gas.
Ask them. I'm sure you'll be fascinated reading the white paper. It's only about 400 some pages long.

But.
I think you missed the point.
When it comes to the internal combustion engine, it is not theoretical to say that full advance produces maximum hp.
It's a proven fact.
And higher hp is not just produced at maximum rpm.
More hp will be produced across the rpm range, so long as the timing runs at the full advanced state while the engine is under load.
Full advance is dictated by the design of the engine ( In our case it's Atkinson) plus the high compression ratio (12.4 to 1) and the octane of the gas being used.
None of which is theoretical.

And if $2 really means so much to you, why did you spend so much extra for the hybrid?
You could have purchased a comparable auto and used the difference to buy gasoline, insurance, license plates..etc.
That also is not theoretical. It is variable, but not theoretical.
Our hybrids, depending on how much we drive them, will have to be used for 5 to 10 years before the extra "hybrid" cost breaks even.
Like I said, if getting what you paid for, means little to you, ( 139 advertised hp) then you are worrying about something, just to worry about it.

If you always drive your car like a 90 year old lady with impaired vision, then buy the cheapest gas you can find, and stop being concerned about fuel mileage.
You have the best. (Even the Prius isn't this good.)
You'll get just about the same with either grade of gas.
But if you want some extra hp to get your ride up to speed sooner, or to pass someone, or to haul 4 heavy adults, then use an octane that allows the engine to produce all that it can.
You don't have to drive at full throttle to take advantage of the higher octane.

Your Ionic makes about 123 hp on low octane, and 139 hp on high octane. Those numbers are from Hyundai under ideal laboratory conditions.
Our Ionics only need about 60+ hp to keep them going 75mph out on the open road, so those maximum hp numbers don't really matter much.
You won't be able to "feel" the difference in the seat of your pants either.
It takes real instrumentation to see the difference.
Well at last! I can now sleep tonight.
 

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Your Ionic makes about 123 hp on low octane, and 139 hp on high octane. Those numbers are from Hyundai under ideal laboratory conditions.
Our Ionics only need about 60+ hp to keep them going 75mph out on the open road, so those maximum hp numbers don't really matter much.
You won't be able to "feel" the difference in the seat of your pants either.
It takes real instrumentation to see the difference.
I don't own an Ioniq, which is why I'm asking questions as to the performance difference between the octane specified in the manual, and premium. I'm not able to test it myself.

A 12% difference in horsepower due to octane alone seems pretty extreme. Again, this is why I'm asking who has data on this. I've put higher octane fuel in vehicles that specify regular before and not been able to tell a difference. I would expect to notice even a 5% improvement. I can tell the difference in my Acura between regular and premium, but it was designed around 91 octane. I'm also suspect of 60 hp being required at 75 mph. That seems a bit extreme too.

I'd pay $2 more per fillup for a 12% increase in top end horsepower, but I don't think that's accurate. My guess would be closer to 1%, or within the margin of error when measuring performance with instrumentation us novices might have.

Getting more torque from a given throttle position due to more advance doesn't matter to me either, because I can just push the pedal further if I need more. That means the only time I might need my fuel to deliver more power is at WOT. In practice, higher octane fuel doesn't measurably improve fuel economy.
 

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I don't own an Ioniq, which is why I'm asking questions as to the performance difference between the octane specified in the manual, and premium. I'm not able to test it myself.

A 12% difference in horsepower due to octane alone seems pretty extreme. Again, this is why I'm asking who has data on this. I've put higher octane fuel in vehicles that specify regular before and not been able to tell a difference. I would expect to notice even a 5% improvement. I can tell the difference in my Acura between regular and premium, but it was designed around 91 octane. I'm also suspect of 60 hp being required at 75 mph. That seems a bit extreme too.

I'd pay $2 more per fillup for a 12% increase in top end horsepower, but I don't think that's accurate. My guess would be closer to 1%, or within the margin of error when measuring performance with instrumentation us novices might have.

Getting more torque from a given throttle position due to more advance doesn't matter to me either, because I can just push the pedal further if I need more. That means the only time I might need my fuel to deliver more power is at WOT. In practice, higher octane fuel doesn't measurably improve fuel economy.
I gave you what you wanted, and you rejected it out of hand, because of your OPINION?
In that case no answer will satisfy you.
Are you just a troll looking to start something?
If you don't believe someone who has a Masters in engineering then go to the source.
Hyundai.
Read the white paper on your drivetrain.
You seem to be obsessed over something that is so trivial.
Maybe if you were buying a large fleet of Ionics your concern would be valid.
But you're not.
Just buy cheap gas and stop worrying over a few bucks.
 

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Link to sources would be good rather than flames. Without it, it is just your opinion as well. Not sure I believe your numbers either.
 
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