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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am deciding between the Ioniq HEV and the PHEV. My drive will only be about 20 miles per day and probably 3 long road trips per year. I have been trying to find research on the effects of having a PHEV and mostly (95% of miles) using in EV mode only. Are there systems in place for the Ioniq PHEV so that the engine runs enough to not damage the engine? I am thinking that if the engine only runs for a few minutes per day while hard accelerating, that the long term life of the engine would suffer. I am leaning towards HEV because of this reason.

TIA
 

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That's a good question, and not one I can answer until we get some plugins on the road,

It's a chicken an egg sort of issue, you want to maximise EV use to minimise fuel usage, but at the same time use the ICE enough so you don't end up causing issues due to infrequent use of the ICE

I am sure the blokes at Hyundai have thought of this, but would be nice to see an answer
 

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My drive will only be about 20 miles per day and probably 3 long road trips per year. I have been trying to find research on the effects of having a PHEV and mostly (95% of miles) using in EV mode only. Are there systems in place for the Ioniq PHEV so that the engine runs enough to not damage the engine? I am thinking that if the engine only runs for a few minutes per day while hard accelerating, that the long term life of the engine would suffer.
I know how they did that for the first generation Prius Plug In; for 4 years I was driving it for 82% of the distances in EV. Every 200 km the ICE comes up to let it run for a few minutes. That's enough to keep it in a good shape. I am sure the Ioniq PHEV has a similar mechanism.

In fact your driving pattern is perfect for the PHEV. Or maybe the full electric version is still the other option? How far are these 3 long trips? Are there rapid chargers there?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I know how they did that for the first generation Prius Plug In; for 4 years I was driving it for 82% of the distances in EV. Every 200 km the ICE comes up to let it run for a few minutes. That's enough to keep it in a good shape. I am sure the Ioniq PHEV has a similar mechanism.

In fact your driving pattern is perfect for the PHEV. Or maybe the full electric version is still the other option? How far are these 3 long trips? Are there rapid chargers there?
The driving pattern (for my wife and family vacation) does seem perfect for a PHEV, except the engine infrequency issue. I heard that the engine is used in the winter for heat, so that should help too. Winter in Texas is only 6 weeks long, so not a great solution for keeping the engine running enough.

The long trips would be 500km+ vacations.

I have a 2011 Leaf and planning for a model 3 or Ioniq EV for me next year.

1 Full EV + 1 HEV may be the compromise that we make, but the PHEV seems nice "on paper" to be almost gasoline free.
 

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You might choose for 1 Full EV + 1 PHEV, then you minimize burning gas and can do everything.
 

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Car & Driver has driven the PHEV and found that the engine will start, even with the traction battery fully charged, when accelerating onto a freeway or other similarly brisk acceleration. If that's the case, and if there's no way to lock out ICE operation, that would be a deal-killer for me. I'm not interested in a PHEV, but if I was, I'd pick the Prius Prime because it's possible to select EV operation only. I would not want, as Brian mentions, the ICE to start up cold only for brief periods of brisk acceleration then shut off and never be warmed up. That would be extremely hard duty for the ICE. I'd want it to be fully electric operation as long as there is good charge on the battery.
 

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The IONIQ PHEV will have a modest 60 HP electric engine, so what Car & Driver is saying is most likely true. There may be an "electric only" button, but then you'd be left with a very heavy 60 HP car... even if electric motors deliver a lot of power at low speeds, you can guess it's not going to be fun or useful to drive at ramps, hills or motorway speeds.

I'm still getting the PHEV though, but my thought process is:

● Hopefully, it'll be faster than the regular HEV. I hope the extra HP in the electric engine is not there just to offset battery weight; IONIQ does 0..100 km/h in 10.8 s, which is ok but I want a faster car. (Rant: Why can't they make green *and* fast/fun/exciting *and* not fucking hideous? This is what Tesla gets and others do not; once they're here they'll just destroy their EV competition so badly it won't be even fun. Oh well, Hyundai at least delivered green and not fucking hideous, that makes it better than most.)

● Frankly, whenever commuting through heavy traffic, enjoying a scenic route in the mountains, in a rush, etc. I'll always use the IONIQ in S mode. It's faster, and I prefer driving manual (or fake manual like S mode is). I'll leave the D mode for boring highways or taking pets to the vet. In S mode, both engines are always used, unless you're out of battery, so I'm already counting for that.

● So I see the PHEV is basically a much better hybrid car where you can charge for extra savings and the battery can store much more energy (e.g. when going down mountains).

● Which means if I charge it every day, I'll be doing 2.2 l/100 km instead of 3.9 except on long trips. This is not an EV, but it'll beat all non-plug-in HEVs.

● There's always the Prius Prime, but Toyota has tried very hard and succeeded in not selling their car to me, with the HEV being the ugliest car I've ever seen since PT Cruiser, the Prime being marginally less outrageous but outrageously limited to 4 seats to compensate.

● It'll take years to get a decent supercharging network in my country. Once this happens, I'm keeping the IONIQ PHEV for long range trips (e.g. to the beach or anywhere I wouldn't be able to supercharge very reliably), and buying a Tesla Model 3 (the 500 km range one with two of these wonderful motors and AWD), provided the dashboard doesn't suck too much (please have a HUD...). IMO, Tesla is EV done right. EVs don't have to be cars for gramps; since I'm hurting the environment far less with it, I want a race car.
 

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Car & Driver has driven the PHEV and found that the engine will start, even with the traction battery fully charged, when accelerating onto a freeway or other similarly brisk acceleration. If that's the case, and if there's no way to lock out ICE operation, that would be a deal-killer for me. I'm not interested in a PHEV, but if I was, I'd pick the Prius Prime because it's possible to select EV operation only. I would not want, as Brian mentions, the ICE to start up cold only for brief periods of brisk acceleration then shut off and never be warmed up. That would be extremely hard duty for the ICE. I'd want it to be fully electric operation as long as there is good charge on the battery.
I read two reviews this week that said that there's an EV only button. It's not as peppy as the ICE, but it gets the job done.

There are several driving modes to choose from, including an EV mode which keeps the Ioniq in all-electric mode until the battery is almost drained.
Hyundai Ioniq Plug-In Hybrid review | Carbuyer

You can cut the petrol engine out of the equation altogether with a new feature for the PHEV; there’s now a button that forces the Ioniq to run in EV mode, with a claimed zero-emissions range of up to 39 miles.
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyundai/ioniq/99200/new-hyundai-ioniq-plug-in-hybrid-2017-review
 

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Apparently this Car and Driver journalist has written the review in a cheap manner without obtaining good knowledge about the Ioniq PHEV first...

So, for the range up to 39 miles (63 km) provided by the 8.9 kWh battery you can use this car as an EV, and I am sure the car takes care that the ICE will stay in good shape, as happens in all plug in hybrid cars.
 

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thing is, even the HEV with its little 43hp motor shows that so much of the time you need little power to keep the car rolling , you need more than 43 / 60hp to accelerate briskly, then once up to speed the 43/60hp is more than enough to keep it going so the ICE then shuts down
 

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For the Ioniq PHEV you can either adopt a relatively relaxed, smooth driving style and fully drive EV; I did that all the time with my first generation Prius Plug In (also with 60 kW electric motor, the same as the Ioniq PHEV), and in traffic I was always as fast as the other cars, so I was not slow thereby disturbing others.

Or you can choose a more aggressive driving style accepting using short times of the ICE as well.
 

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Apparently this Car and Driver journalist has written the review in a cheap manner without obtaining good knowledge about the Ioniq PHEV first...

So, for the range up to 39 miles (63 km) provided by the 8.9 kWh battery you can use this car as an EV, and I am sure the car takes care that the ICE will stay in good shape, as happens in all plug in hybrid cars.
Just a note. That 39 miles/63km is for the British testing cycle. EPA rating is 27 miles/42 km.
 

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I'm a potential new buyer from California that is very interested in the Ioniq plugin. I test drove the HEV twice and was pretty impressed. I really prefer the HEV as my daily work commute won't benefit much from the plugin since its too far one way ( I average about 60 miles one way), however the awesome rebates and credits in California make buying the plugin a no brainer for me as it will be cheaper than the top HEV trim I was interested in.

My main concern with Hyundai and their hybrid tech is reliability. Everyone knows the Prius and Toyota have been doing this for awhile now and they are solid however I really like the total package that Hyundai has brought together here and would love to give them a try. Although I have some reservations, I'm leaning on buying the plugin when it comes out this fall due to their great warranty not only on powertrain but also their electric battery. The other factor is that I noticed that Hyundai does have some experience with hybrids and some of their hybrids such as their Sonata hybrid has pretty good reliability rating.

Right now my main hesitation is on the durability/reliability of the DCT and the hybrid starter generator belt as I plan to keep this car a very long time because I will make this my main work and daily commuter. My other concern is the added weight of the battery of the plugin. As long as the plugin is able to stay in EV much longer then this should somewhat negate the added weight. Otherwise there is no point in marketing the 27 miles of EV range on the plugin. Finally, what is the normal lifespan of electric motor if the car is not abused and well maintained? And how is Hyundai's recent ICE engines holding up over the last 10 years?
 

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Hyundai / Kia now have gone to GDI (gas direct injection) engine for the last 6 - 7 years. So far so good. Engines have been running smoothly without issues. I'd say the reliability has been above average so far. However, I did purchase an extended warranty for my Ioniq because this is a first gen vehicle, and the hybrid drive-train makes it more complex. For peace of mind there is a lifetime warranty on the battery.
 

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dont worry about the engine, computer does that, there is a warning in the handbook that engine may start and continue running to "lubricate the engine!" dont know when or how long for, but something must monitor engine opperation.
 

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dont worry about the engine, computer does that, there is a warning in the handbook that engine may start and continue running to "lubricate the engine!" dont know when or how long for, but something must monitor engine opperation.
As Tony says, as the engine is used when you first start the car there has to be onboard `on-condition` monitoring that decides where, when and for how long the ICE runs - it's got to be a lot more sophisticated than the `warm the engine up to get heat in the car and battery` we've discussed numerous times.

Can't believe a car manufacturer under threat of global warranty claims would fail to test a HEV/PHEV for engine-off reliability. But if it's a concern, buy a BEV! :nerd:
 
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