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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all. I’m based in the uk and am considering getting the PHEV version. I’m a little worried about the loss in capacity of the battery over time. I have a Leaf 30 which, after 4 years seems to have lost 20 -25% capacity and I was worried that this could happen on the Ionic too. To lose 25% of a 35 mile electric range would be a serious problem for me!
 

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All batteries degrade with time and use, but by how much is subject to so many variables, they are too numerous to mention here. If this is such a major concern, why not go for an HEV and never have to worry about it while getting superb mpg? Then in a few years buy a PHEV from whoever has one with 100 mile battery capacity?
 
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so far after one year of use its been pretty good. I track my charging with a power meter and log the charging events. Last Cctober charging from 27% to full took 7.8 kwh. Most recently charging from 27% to 100 took 7.65kwh, so the degradation has been fairly negligible so far. I do try to avoid having the battery sit full in hot weather though.
 

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Also, looking at the logs of watt-hours / %SOC, it seems like I've been ranging from 103 wh/%to 113wh/% with most cases around 108 and it hasn't changed drastically. If range were dropping, I would expect wh/% to start to fall.
 

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Kinda ghetto, this one:


I reset it manually and write it down each time. They have an RS485 version that you can use a Raspberry Pi with though, and I've been meaning to install it, but I've been lazy.
 

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Also this is because I charge off 240V. If I were charging off 120V then its much simpler to use a Kill-A-Watt, or the following one:


It seems like charging efficiency with 240V is substantially better than that with 120V, I'd ballpark it at high 80's% vs low 70's%
 

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I've had my phev for two years and have not noticed any degradation of the battery. Its hard to say because ambient temperature effects the range and I have not done any scientific comparisons over time. Only casual observations.

I drive the same route to work every day. When I have a fresh charge I leave home and then note when I lose the first bar of the battery soc indicator. No reduction there. Actually in the heat of this August I set a new distance record before losing the first bar.

On summer weekends I take the same trip of 50 miles. Nothing noticeable in that overall trip distance either, still get upper 30 miles of electric range.

I do not abuse the battery because I plan to keep the car for a long time. And I drive low miles per year. So it probably has a gentler use case compared to average.
 

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I actually wondering how bad of a degrade i will need to show to use the lifetime warranty on my battery..
 

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I actually wondering how bad of a degrade i will need to show to use the lifetime warranty on my battery..
That's classified! Other makers quote 70 to 80% capacity maintained over the warranty period. But it gets complicated as there is a hidden battery buffer. You cannot notice degradation until that is gone. Thus no one has reported any degradation at all. Even though of course that is impossible.
 

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Kinda ghetto, this one:


I reset it manually and write it down each time. They have an RS485 version that you can use a Raspberry Pi with though, and I've been meaning to install it, but I've been lazy.

Hello,

Thank you for your fast answer.
Very interesting.
I intend also to buy a 240 charger, I already have a 14-50 NEMA outlet in my garage.
How do you power the device?
Can you post a picture of your installation please?
Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi folks, after some consideration I’ve decided to go for the standard hybrid. Theres no way that I can cover the extra cost in buying the PHEV with the reduced petrol usage It would bring, actually, I can’t even get close - I would need to use the PHEV for 10 years before I broke even!!
 

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That is about right even in the US with very low fuel cost (except that the tax credit makes it about the same cost as the HEV). Even the extra cost of the hybrid doesn't pencil out for those who buy a new car in less than 10 years.

However, even if you are not the optimal PHEV buyer, it may still be "greener" than other choices. For myself, I figured the long distances that I drive across country, the lighter HEV and inability to plug in made the hybrid the better choice by far. Kept my last car 19 years so I should come out ahead financially eventually.
 

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Yeah and in states like Massachusetts with gas under a 2 dollars and electricity at 23c / kwh it is actually even incrementally more expensive to run the car in ev mode
 

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A bit late...
Still 37 miles and no battery degradation on my 27k miles 2017 PHEV, which is 3 years and 1 month tomorrow. The car was a 6 months old demo model with 8k on the clock. So there was no extra cost for the PHEV over the HEV. I think the £2500 subsidy for the PHEV disappeared recently too.
I drive for free using Solar PV. 1 gallon a month to keep the petrol engine happy.
I have a meter too but it needs to be in a Consumer Unit. Mine is in the Pod point charger CU/switch box. Search eBay for "LCD Digital Single Phase Energy Meter Analyzer Watt KWh Rail Electricity Monitor" £10. It cycles through accumulated charges kWh, voltage, amperage and power factor. Need a qualified electrician to fit of course.
 

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$2/gal(US) = £0.40/ltr. I last paid £1.14/ltr!!!! I'm not sure of the current price per kWh for electric in the UK, being hybrid, but it gives you an idea of why EV or PHEV may take off a bit more over here! :)
 

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Driving EV/PHEV in the UK should cost less than half of the HEV petrol cost. And a quarter the cost of my old diesel! In the US petrol prices are half ours.

Average UK tarrif is approx 14p. Good value tarrif £0.125/kWh with outfoxthemarket (Octopus Go give you 5p per kWh for 4hrs at 00:30am but daytime 14p/kWh). Solar is free ;)

To drive 70 miles per UK gallon/egallon COST for HEV = £5.187, PHEV = £2.13(0.85), EV = £1.75(£0.70)

For HEV 1 UK gallon= 4.55L = 70 miles = £5.19
For PHEV @4.1 mile/kWh, 9kWh = 37 miles = £1.125 or 70miles for £2.13p(£0.85 octopus go)
For EV @5miles/kWh, 14kWh = 70 miles = £1.75 (or £0.70p on Octopus Go)
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Ok, change in plan! We’re now going for the plug in! We decided to take a long term view instead!
Whats the best way to charge the plug in? Charging frequently is not supposed to be good for these batteries - I used to charge our Leaf whenever I could just because we never knew when we had to make a journey and apparently that was terrible for the battery. With a 37 mile range, surely it will need to be ‘topped off’ frequently to be able to use that 37 miles? How does frequent charging affect these batteries?
 

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That's a big question. I've read some studies on what affects Li ion battery life, and I've read discussions on this forum. There is a lot of good information out there and plenty of opinions. Like you, I am in this for the long haul. If my Ioniq is not running strong after 10 years I will be disappointed. And from what I've read about batteries, and my expected use case, plus the built in battery buffer capacity, plus the Hyundai warranty, plus a little extra care on my part - I'm not really worried about it.

Some say don't worry about it at all. The engineers designed the car so you can drive it and charge it without over thinking things. That's fine, I'll use the car like a normal car. But I also like to do what i can to extend the life of the battery.

Here's what I remember about battery care. (I'm not an expert).

1. The life of a battery is affected by the number of charge cycles. Partial charge cycles don't count the same as full charge / discharge cycles.
2. High temperature will shorten the life.
3. Charging or discharging too quickly will shorten the life. (Probably related to high temps).
4. Sitting fully charged for extended periods of time will shorten the life.
5. Charging at extreme hot or cold temperatures will shorten the life. But apparently using the battery at cold temps is fine. You will get less range but it doesn't harm the battery.
6. Deep discharge is bad for the battery.
7. There's more probably, what did I forget?

So I would say this- read a little about batteries, search the forum, and enjoy your new phev. Its a great car. And welcome to the forum.
 

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Deep discharge not allowed by software. A full charge would be equally bad but that is also not allowed by software. There is a top and bottom buffer. Just like a Prius, the battery will likely last 15 years even taking no care. A small percentage of batteries will fail before that, or experience excessive degradation. Worrying about it however may cause excessive brain degradation. Leave that for the BEV owners.

Learning how to care for your 12 volt battery could actually save you money though.
 
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