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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

I just created an account on this forum, but have been lurking for a couple of weeks now.

I'm here because I'm interested in driving an electric car, and my original plan was to get a Tesla Model 3, but because it's going to be a few years before I'm going to have one available to me, I thought it would be a good opportunity to try some of the other electric cars on the market!

I did a bit of research and so far the order of interesting cars for me is:

1. Hyundai Ioniq
2. Volkswagen e-Golf
3. Ford Focus Electric

They've all got advantages and disadvantages from what I can tell, and honestly it feels like there is so little information out there that it's hard to even compare the three head-to-head.

Definitely the Ioniq is my favorite (practically and emotionally) and this forum has taught me a lot of things I was not able to find myself, so thanks and I hope to also be able to contribute.
 

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Welcome here! Any questions you still have, just ask them!
What are the more important things for your decision?
 

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Welcome,

There are a few members from TO area and quite a few of us in the Ottawa area as you can see from all the 'Ottawa' thread. Any questions and rumors regarding Canadian release you will probably see it here as we are all anxiously waiting for the official pricing information
 

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My impression of the e-Golf was formed by the Bjorn Nyland video. I was "Ew" towards the dash. Analogue gauges? In an EV? Even for the battery? What kind of idiot decided that was good for an EV?

I must admit, I haven't taken a look at the Ford Focus EV, as I'm prejudiced against Ford. My first vehicle was a Ford panel van I bought from a neighbour and it was a P.O.S. My impression to this day even with the current Fords is Fords break down if you look at them wrong.
 

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Thanks everybody for such a warm welcome!

Welcome here! Any questions you still have, just ask them!
What are the more important things for your decision?
Hi Jan,
Here are some of the questions that are top of mind right now (there are probably more rattling around in my brain that I can't remember right now):

1. Overall pricing - I know everybody is in the same boat as me and very eager. The Ford Focus is fairly cheap starting at $32K (and around $200/month to lease). The base e-Golf appears to start at $36K but I'm not sure what features will be included in the base model.

The Ford Focus in the US is $29K so it's a great conversion rate. I'm actually not sure what the new e-Golf is going for in the US, their website only shows the 2016 (which FWIW is $29K).

What will Hyundai do?

2. The overall passenger space between the Ioniq vs. e-Golf. Is it my imagination, or is the e-Golf smaller inside?

3. The Ford Focus (and maybe the e-Golf) have the ability to start the climate control from a phone app? That sounds really lovely on cold winter mornings...


Welcome, have you considered the Chevy Bolt at all?
Hi TheAlien,

I had briefly, but it's probably more than I want to spend on an interim electric car. Although if the Ioniq is really as nice as it seems, I wouldn't take buying it out at the end of the lease off the table.

My impression of the e-Golf was formed by the Bjorn Nyland video. I was "Ew" towards the dash. Analogue gauges? In an EV? Even for the battery? What kind of idiot decided that was good for an EV?

I must admit, I haven't taken a look at the Ford Focus EV, as I'm prejudiced against Ford. My first vehicle was a Ford panel van I bought from a neighbour and it was a P.O.S. My impression to this day even with the current Fords is Fords break down if you look at them wrong.
Hi S'toon,

I was surprised at the analogue gauges too, but it seems the new version being released has a digital dash now. Also I'm not a huge fan of Fords either, but mostly for drivetrain reasons... which, may be less relevant for an electric car, but who really knows?
 

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I was hoping there would be some word coming out of the Vancouver Auto Show, but so far there's nothing at all.
At this point its a case of talking to dealers and even talking to Hyundai directly.
 

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Thanks everybody for such a warm welcome!

Hi Jan,
Here are some of the questions that are top of mind right now (there are probably more rattling around in my brain that I can't remember right now):

1. Overall pricing - I know everybody is in the same boat as me and very eager. The Ford Focus is fairly cheap starting at $32K (and around $200/month to lease). The base e-Golf appears to start at $36K but I'm not sure what features will be included in the base model.

The Ford Focus in the US is $29K so it's a great conversion rate. I'm actually not sure what the new e-Golf is going for in the US, their website only shows the 2016 (which FWIW is $29K).

What will Hyundai do?

2. The overall passenger space between the Ioniq vs. e-Golf. Is it my imagination, or is the e-Golf smaller inside?

3. The Ford Focus (and maybe the e-Golf) have the ability to start the climate control from a phone app? That sounds really lovely on cold winter mornings...
1. The pricing of your three options can be strongly dependent on the country; it is hard to predict them.

2. I also think that the Ioniq has more space, but I did not measure the Golf. For example, the Ioniq has the measurements behind the front seats as shown below.

3. The phone app based on Bluelink works in the US, I understood, but up till now not in Europe. You have to ask Hyundai in Canada about it. However, if it does not work you can still preheat the car based on (pre)scheduling it together with charging. If you have a home charging station you may also have an app to activate or deactivate that station, and use that as a way to control preheating and charging of the car from your phone, tablet or laptop. I often do that. See also this thread.
 

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Hi @tinyfist

Some photos of an Ioniq Hybrid with luggage in it are here:

km77.com - Fotos Hyundai IONIQ - Interior

(Electric version has less height in the trunk but width and length are the same)

I also saw a video of a Tesla owner who had a Bolt for a few days, and he could only get a carry on bag into the Bolt's trunk by standing it up going across, so it can fit 2 carry on bags. By comparison, I think you could easily get 4, if not 6 or 7 or 8 if you squish them in, into an Ioniq.

The Focus EV seems a lot smaller, and loses a lot of its already small trunk space to the battery, so it seems like a much less practical vehicle.

I'm hopefully that you're right about the Focus being a good marker for price point, since the Ioniq and Focus have the same US price. However, it's possible the Focus is built in Canada, so that might throw that comparison off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
1. The pricing of your three options can be strongly dependent on the country; it is hard to predict them.

2. I also think that the Ioniq has more space, but I did not measure the Golf. For example, the Ioniq has the measurements behind the front seats as shown below.

3. The phone app based on Bluelink works in the US, I understood, but up till now not in Europe. You have to ask Hyundai in Canada about it. However, if it does not work you can still preheat the car based on (pre)scheduling it together with charging. If you have a home charging station you may also have an app to activate or deactivate that station, and use that as a way to control preheating and charging of the car from your phone, tablet or laptop. I often do that. See also this thread HAD TO REMOVE LINK.
Hi Jan,

Thanks!

1. This is true, and why it's so hard to make some educated guesses!

2. Every time I sit in a Golf, even the front seats / dash area feel cramped compared to the Ioniq. It's probably not a big difference but in a small car a little different goes a long way!

3. Thanks for the link! So you can set a time in the car to start the climate control automatically while it's plugged in? That would be enough to make my mornings more pleasant!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi @tinyfist

Some photos of an Ioniq Hybrid with luggage in it are here:

(Electric version has less height in the trunk but width and length are the same)

I also saw a video of a Tesla owner who had a Bolt for a few days, and he could only get a carry on bag into the Bolt's trunk by standing it up going across, so it can fit 2 carry on bags. By comparison, I think you could easily get 4, if not 6 or 7 or 8 if you squish them in, into an Ioniq.

The Focus EV seems a lot smaller, and loses a lot of its already small trunk space to the battery, so it seems like a much less practical vehicle.

I'm hopefully that you're right about the Focus being a good marker for price point, since the Ioniq and Focus have the same US price. However, it's possible the Focus is built in Canada, so that might throw that comparison off.
Thanks for the link Marcel G! Those are some very detailed pictures and very helpful! Every piece of knowledge adds to the picture I'm trying to paint!
 

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So you can set a time in the car to start the climate control automatically while it's plugged in? That would be enough to make my mornings more pleasant!
Yes you can set a time of departure for charging, and whether or not you want preheating (or AC) and at what temperature, then it will start some time before so that at the set time the car is charged and warm with windows unfrozen (or cool). For this you have to leave the charging station in standby, not off, or you have to activate it in time by an app for that.

You can still do this when the car was already fully charged, then it will just do the preheating or cooling only. You will have to try whether the windows are also unfrozen when temperatures are extremely low and there is a cm ice on them, for example. There is some doubt about that point in extreme conditions.
 

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Yes you can set a time of departure for charging, and whether or not you want preheating (or AC) and at what temperature, then it will start some time before so that at the set time the car is charged and warm with windows unfrozen (or cool). For this you have to leave the charging station in standby, not off
Is the L1 charger cable that come with the car, it it always on?
 

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Yes, if you plug it in your standard home grid, it is always on.

But doesn't L1 charging in your country use 120 V? That will give you a lower available power level than for L2 charging, so theoretically for extreme temperatures that might limit the capability of reaching the interior temperature set. For example, to keep the car warm at -15 °C or lower outside temperature you may need a heating power level of 2 kW or more, as can be observed. If your home grid cannot provide that, this may not work.

I only have experience with L2 charging at 240 V with a maximal power level of 3.7 kW and temperatures not lower than -10 °C, and that always worked quite well, but I don't know about L1 charging at 120 V and temperatures as low as -30 °C, for example. Is there anybody who has experience with preheating using L1 charging at 120 V?
 

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Yes, if you plug it in your standard home grid, it is always on.

But doesn't L1 charging in your country use 120 V? That will give you a lower available power level than for L2 charging, so theoretically for extreme temperatures that might limit the capability of reaching the interior temperature set. For example, to keep the car warm at -15 °C or lower outside temperature you may need a heating power level of 2 kW or more, as can be observed. If your home grid cannot provide that, this may not work.

I only have experience with L2 charging at 240 V with a maximal power level of 3.7 kW and temperatures not lower than -10 °C, and that always worked quite well, but I don't know about L1 charging at 120 V and temperatures as low as -30 °C, for example. Is there anybody who has experience with preheating using L1 charging at 120 V?
This is a good point Jan. L1 charging might work fine for range, but it might be necessary to have an L2 for pre-heating the car in Canadian winters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes you can set a time of departure for charging, and whether or not you want preheating (or AC) and at what temperature, then it will start some time before so that at the set time the car is charged and warm with windows unfrozen (or cool). For this you have to leave the charging station in standby, not off, or you have to activate it in time by an app for that.

You can still do this when the car was already fully charged, then it will just do the preheating or cooling only. You will have to try whether the windows are also unfrozen when temperatures are extremely low and there is a cm ice on them, for example. There is some doubt about that point in extreme conditions.
That's really useful to hear, so to make sure I understand, basically I can program the car to:

a) charge at a preset time, and
b) preheat or precool at a preset time (whether it's charging or not)

That would be quite good enough since my weekday morning schedule is fairly routiine (always leave the house around a certain time).

Does that mean it's okay to leave the car plugged in, even during snowy nights?
 

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That's really useful to hear, so to make sure I understand, basically I can program the car to:

a) charge at a preset time, and
b) preheat or precool at a preset time (whether it's charging or not)

That would be quite good enough since my weekday morning schedule is fairly routiine (always leave the house around a certain time).

Does that mean it's okay to leave the car plugged in, even during snowy nights?
Yes, in this sense:
a) program charging to be ready at a preset time
b) preheat or precool to be ready at a preset time (whether it's charging or not: as far as I know it will always charge as well, as long as it is not yet fully charged, but you can avoid charging if you just activate your charging station half an hour before the programmed time, for example by an app for that station, then it only has time to heat or cool, and not much to charge)

You can leave it plugged in always.

P.S. But I suggest to put the charging station off during periods that nothing is to take place, then it will cost zero power, otherwise you always have standby power costs.
 

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Yes, in this sense:
a) program charging to be ready at a preset time
b) preheat or precool to be ready at a preset time (whether it's charging or not: as far as I know it will always charge as well, as long as it is not yet fully charged, but you can avoid charging if you just activate your charging station half an hour before the programmed time, for example by an app for that station, then it only has time to heat or cool, and not much to charge)

You can leave it plugged in always.

P.S. But I suggest to put the charging station off during periods that nothing is to take place, then it will cost zero power, otherwise you always have standby power costs.
I have never heard of programming a charging station, or having it in standby before. All I was aware of is basically an interface between home wiring and the car. I never understood why the manufacturers decided to put in an extra unneeded interface between the car and wall before. Tesla having a car that just can plug into the wall makes more sense to me.

Having a charging station which has an operating temperature of -30 to +50 is also problematic around here where we're usually guaranteed a week or two of weather where it doesn't get above -30 every winter.
 

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It works as an extra safety device taking care that there is no 50kW or any other high level of power going through the wire at the moment you disconnect it.
 

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...to keep the car warm at -15 °C or lower outside temperature you may need a heating power level of 2 kW or more, as can be observed...
Indeed, in Canada regular household plug can only output 1.8KW max and 1.44KW sustained. As long as the heating is still working at a lower capacity then it is still worth a try.

I have never heard of programming a charging station, or having it in standby before. All I was aware of is basically an interface between home wiring and the car. I never understood why the manufacturers decided to put in an extra unneeded interface between the car and wall before. Tesla having a car that just can plug into the wall makes more sense to me.

Having a charging station which has an operating temperature of -30 to +50 is also problematic around here where we're usually guaranteed a week or two of weather where it doesn't get above -30 every winter.
Higher end charger are programmable and you can use an app to control it. With a combination of the charger app and the car preset a preheated car is absolutely achievable.

As Jan said, all these are for safety. The charger will not energize the plug when its is not plugged into the "functional" vehicle. The charger also will negotiate with the vehicle how much juice it will push through the cable.
 
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