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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I have bought my new Ioniq HEV precisely one week ago. This Wednesday, at around 250 km mileage, the car already broke down. After 5-8 hrs of standing (overnight or after a working day) the car would not start: on start/stop button push, it tries to start the engine 3 times, stalls all 3 times, then displays the yellow triangle and "HEV Error" message. When I push stop, then start again, runs fine.

So now I am awaiting the free time slot at the service, which is only next week. (Of course, now I have to wait... They are quick on selling things but not on repairing the broken ones they just sold).

Thank you Hyundai for ripping me off the new car feeling. Now I will have to think what breaks next all the time, without enjoying peace of mind for at least a year or two. Not even a full week! Shame.

I will update the forum on what the service finds and what measures they take.

Cheers from Riga,
Andrey, the (not so) lucky Ioniq owner.
 

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so you had the same fault again :(


hopefully they can find the fault quickly, and it is something simple


main thing is the car is drivable you know it will try then fail to start, if you try again it will be fine, that does sound like a fuel problem


have you given it a long run? or do you do mainly short runs?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
so you had the same fault again :(

that does sound like a fuel problem

have you given it a long run? or do you do mainly short runs?

Yes, happened again, so it's not a coincidence. I'll try to film it next time.

To me, also a fuel thing - I've had old cars as well, and remember very similar occasions when the fuel pressure was not enough to keep the motor running. On one Alfa, I just knew to keep the ignition on for a longer time before starting, so the aging pump would do its job. But those cases were on 15-25-year old cars, not 5 days old :) This is what troubles me the most - I can't trust it much more than a '97 Alfa from now on.

I do various itineraries, 12 km is a typical commute, but we also drove some 40 km to the sea and back a couple of times. At the end of the day, it shouldn't matter - nothing can justify such case. Even my new Corsa lasted for 6 months before first warranty issues, and it cost half of Ioniq.
 

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I think it is likely to be an air leak or similar in the fuel system, allowing the pressure to drop or fuel to flow back into the tank when left for a period of time


if it was water in the fuel or another sort of fuel contamination it wouldn't start on the 2nd try each time
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Agree, and I refueled it it a good, proven station to full tank. Also, when it does start from the first try (like today), it still tries to stall for some time, and gives more RPM to prevent that. After 15-20 seconds, the revolutions stabilize.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Ok, a small update. Today is 11 days since I bought the car. Barely touched it though, because it's at the service. I'm totally ready to return the Ioniq and go buy my previous car, if it was possible. I was a fool to sell that one and go risk buying an unproven model. But ok, too late.

The story followed like this: 3 days after I bought the HEV, the motor wouldn't start after a cold night or day (around -15 C), while it still had the gas that the dealership put in it, so I called them and scheduled a service (as described in the thread's first post). I refueled the car at a proven gas station, but that didn't help.

Luckily, I then contacted local Hyundai importer, just to tell them I was really disappointed in the "new car" feeling gone so fast.

This was a good move, since they were very polite and motivated to make the new model launch smooth, so they took notice of my case and contacted the dealership themselves. "All of a sudden", the dealership called me in some 15 minutes and reported that they were ready to have the car inspected right now and gave me a proper replacement car (a really good one, and not Hyundai, so it still works 4 days already, wow). This was on Friday 10th.

Today the situation developed a bit more. The dealership called me and reported the following:
- the errors were scanned, found 2 "misfire" errors
- apart from that, they didn't observe malfunctions (of course, it's +4 C now, 20 degrees warmer than when the error occured)
- they said to have checked the spark plugs and found them fine
- they blamed (attention please, ladies and gentlemen) ME and the fuel I used. They said, hybrid was too sensitive to fuel quality so after one misfire it wouldn't start, unlike normal petrol engines. To "prove" that, they said to have had all the fuel removed (was almost full tank when I left the car) and replaced with another one, and the car worked fine - which is obvious, because it didn't fail EVERY time, but under particular conditions.
- I called out their BS, reminding that the first failure to start was on the gasoline THEY put into the car at the dealership. This now is harder to prove, since I refueled it to dilute whatever could be the cause of the problem (which didn't help anyway, and, as bluecar1 noticed, bad fuel would affect the car more often and more randomly). All in all, I think my full tank is gone, so they will return the car to me empty again. Stupid manipulations.
- the dealership said they would search and think more and then call me. Should I maybe start directing their actions, ask to check the fuel pressure, pump, filter? If they return the car as is, I will have to expect problems every start from now on.

That's it. 13 years behind the wheel. Had many used and new cars. My previous car, a 211-hp fully packed SEAT was serving me for 5 years from mint new, with only minor issues lately. But I betrayed it for the "new car feeling" and "economy", and now I have to prove someone it wasn't me who was the trouble with the car.
 

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Andrew - I am truly sorry that you are off to a bad start with your car. I hope it can be rectified soon.

But Andrew's problem arises a question (This is not about you Andrew)

In the Prius, passing the "START" button does not actually start the ICE. In fact, I am not sure you can start the ICE while sitting still. You press the accelerator, and eventually the ICE starts.
Since I have never seen an IONIQ, Andrew's description makes me wonder if the ICE can be started alone (unlike the Prius)?

I've never had the Prius ICE not start when the management system told it to start .... but what would happen? Press START, then move out under electric power, then when the management system tries to start the ICE, and it won't, the battery is depleted, and the "triangle" appears?
 

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that sounds like you are being fobbed off to me, but make sure you get the same amount of fuel back in it when you collect it


the fact it only happens at very low temperature could indicate something shrinking due to temperature allowing a small airgap to allow fuel to drain back


they said 2 misfire events, but you have had more failures to start than 2?, the misfires could be the engine sensing insufficient fuel to fire correctly as air is purged from the fuel system / injectors when you sense it trying not to stall


silly question if you turn the car onto "accessory" by pushing the start button once without your foot on the brake for a few second before putting your foot on the brake and pushing the start again to start the car as many cars run the fuel pump when the ignition is tuned on to prepare the car prior to the driver actually starting it


may also be worth contacting the importer again just to explain politely how you feel and that you may feel the dealer may not have adequately investigated the issue from the response you got, and that you will see if the issue has been resolved (as they may have tightened a few things up but not said when they drained and refilled the car with petrol)


As a last resort the other option we have in the UK (I think it comes from EU law) is the sale of goods act, we have the option to reject a car in the first year if there is a fault which can not be resolved that affects the cars reliability or makes it not of suitable quality, BUT the dealer has to be given reasonable chance to fix the fault (in the UK I think they have 3 chances to fix it), if it happens again it may be worth checking with a local consumer protection organisation and looking at your contract to see if you have something similar, but hopefully I won't come to that but it is useful to bargain from an informed position I needed
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
In the Prius, passing the "START" button does not actually start the ICE.
In Ioniq, when it's cold outside (I noticed it under -10 -15 C conditions), it starts ICE right after the button push to warm the engine up. This is when the error happened with me. Otherwise, when it was like +5, sometimes the ICE wouldn't start until after you drive off, same as you say. When the ICE is already warm (more than +50), the button will not start it even if there's -15 outside, and will as well wait until you go.

Regarding your question, I noticed the following: when I started the car, it tried to start the engine, then wrote "HEV error, please stop the car" or something very similar. I guess, it would do the same, should the failed start occur on the go: please stop and turn everything off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
that sounds like you are being fobbed off to me, but make sure you get the same amount of fuel back in it when you collect it

the fact it only happens at very low temperature could indicate something shrinking due to temperature allowing a small airgap to allow fuel to drain back

they said 2 misfire events, but you have had more failures to start than 2?, the misfires could be the engine sensing insufficient fuel to fire correctly as air is purged from the fuel system / injectors when you sense it trying not to stall

silly question if you turn the car onto "accessory" by pushing the start button once without your foot on the brake for a few second before putting your foot on the brake and pushing the start again to start the car as many cars run the fuel pump when the ignition is tuned on to prepare the car prior to the driver actually starting it

may also be worth contacting the importer again just to explain politely how you feel and that you may feel the dealer may not have adequately investigated the issue from the response you got, and that you will see if the issue has been resolved (as they may have tightened a few things up but not said when they drained and refilled the car with petrol)

As a last resort the other option we have in the UK (I think it comes from EU law) is the sale of goods act, we have the option to reject a car in the first year if there is a fault which can not be resolved that affects the cars reliability or makes it not of suitable quality, BUT the dealer has to be given reasonable chance to fix the fault (in the UK I think they have 3 chances to fix it), if it happens again it may be worth checking with a local consumer protection organisation and looking at your contract to see if you have something similar, but hopefully I won't come to that but it is useful to bargain from an informed position I needed

I am SURE I am being fobbed off, but I can't reproduce the error in front of them, and they know it. So, from now on I have a Fiat: today starts, tomorrow doesn't. No trust in the car at all, if they didn't fix anything. The car is not new anymore, have to live with from now on.

And this will be shared with the importer, I am sure, because they show interest themselves. By the way, I was very polite to them and only expressed my feelings, didn't ask for anything. Probably they are really into that mysterious thing called "customer satisfaction" which is rare here.

I thought of the ACC mode by the way :) On some older cars, I let the pump work for longer time, true. But here I don't think its legit - the car should know and understand how to start the engine. And it tries 3 times - not 1! - after the button push before it gives up. To me, that's pretty enough to build fuel pressure.

As for the misfires, they clarified that:
1) they meant not 2 events, but 2 cylinders (misfires in 3rd and 4th) - said the car was storing only one cylinder per error, but not how many times it misfired. This is plain bullshit, I know it well from VAGCOM and generic OBD. Yes, misfires do produce different error codes for all 4 cylinders, but the increment is stored as well. This means, 2 cylinders misfired several times each.
2) it is obvious to me that "a misfire" is not much more informative than "vertigo" in medicine: the cause could be anything from lean/rich mixture to fuel pressure to ignition coils to injectors etc. What I know, no ECU program will give up starting engine after a misfire.

I wonder if Hyundai has this problem on non-hybrids (on push-button start gasoline engines) - googled it, but found only obvious brake switch problems, which is not my case.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
yep, misfire, usually lights EML and puts car I limp home mode
Exactly, and when it tries 3 times - which one is a misfire? If the first one, it would either give up at all or start normally and enter limp mode. Looks like I have to wear a gopro now to catch the moment.
 

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I am SURE I am being fobbed off, but I can't reproduce the error in front of them, and they know it.

[...]

As for the misfires, they clarified that:
1) they meant not 2 events, but 2 cylinders (misfires in 3rd and 4th) - said the car was storing only one cylinder per error, but not how many times it misfired. This is plain bullshit, I know it well from VAGCOM and generic OBD. Yes, misfires do produce different error codes for all 4 cylinders, but the increment is stored as well. This means, 2 cylinders misfired several times each.
2) it is obvious to me that "a misfire" is not much more informative than "vertigo" in medicine: the cause could be anything from lean/rich mixture to fuel pressure to ignition coils to injectors etc. What I know, no ECU program will give up starting engine after a misfire.
If you don't trust your dealer maybe it makes sense to have somebody else reading the errors from your cars system. Do you have some other garage you would have confidence in? Any independent technical expert?
 

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If you don't trust your dealer maybe it makes sense to have somebody else reading the errors from your cars system. Do you have some other garage you would have confidence in? Any independent technical expert?
Well, why not me myself? I did this for many of my cars (actually, I repaired virtually everything myself), so I have great confidence.

Thing is, I don't want to. I bought a new car precisely not to fix it for some years. Not to connect OBD/VAGCOM, study ETKA and ELSA, not to keep in mind parts to order, and so on. And (honestly) I didn't expect it to break THAT fast, even knowing it's Korean.

The no-start is not a problem for me usually, I can measure fuel pressure, check the valve, replace the filter, rebuild the pump if needed, measure compression in the engine, open the lid and check if the timing belt has slipped, etc. But I wanted the opposite of that: the car that runs, and when it doesn't, the car that is repaired not by "fuel out-fuel in" method. B******.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
you are also assuming they did actually drain and refill the petrol tank just as they said ??
IDK. You think it's also fake? Possibility that they just read errors, did nothing and are returning the car? Might be, but I hope not :)

Well, at least I've been driving a nice Quashquai all these days, this is the car I should buy instead. Tomorrow is time to give it back to them.
 

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lets not go there :)


hopefully they have done a BT (british telecom) not admitted to doing anything but quietly fixed the fault


ask anyone in IT how often they report a line fault to BT to be told, "no fault found" but suddenly the line starts working "as if by magic" :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
lets not go there :)


hopefully they have done a BT (british telecom) not admitted to doing anything but quietly fixed the fault


ask anyone in IT how often they report a line fault to BT to be told, "no fault found" but suddenly the line starts working "as if by magic" :)
Here I have no hope. They would yell like heroes of Seven Kingdoms of Narnia. My bet is: they don't know what is going on, so I'll continue "testing" it for them until it stops on the road.

Been there, done that, with Opel.
 

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ask anyone in IT how often they report a line fault to BT to be told, "no fault found" but suddenly the line starts working "as if by magic" :)
You must either work in the industry, or be psychic... That's EXACTLY what happens! ;) And if it doesn't, they threaten you with engineer charges because it MUST be YOUR equipment, not theirs!

Seems like Andrew's dealer tried that approach initially with the 'wrong fuel' rhetoric!

Sorry to hear of your experience Andrew, I fully appreciate how gutting that feeling must be for you now.
 
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