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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Question folks... I just got my 2019 Ioniq EV and I believe I'm the 2nd owner. I plug into a free chargepoint charger every AM when I get to work and it gets to a 100% with about 4-4.5 hours... according to the manual, 100% charging is ok, but there is no mention of how often we should or should not got there. Has anyone heard otherwise from a 'reliable source'? I know Tesla's are not supposed to be charged to 100% on a daily basis, but on my Ioniq, I'm not sure.
 

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Hi
It depends on the time after you charge how soon you use the car. I have found from different sources that if you are charging to 100% then you should not leave the battery to sit without being used for any period of time. This goes for all li-on batteries, phones, tablets, cars. So, if you charge at work to 100%, then drive home a bit of a distance away you should be fine. From the charge time you mentioned, 4-4.5 hours, it sounds like you drive a bit of a distance each day.
If however you charged to 100% then let it sit for a weekend, or a week, that is not the best way to treat the battery.

All batteries need to be charged to 100% at least every few charges as the battery management system can balance all the cells when you do so. The management system takes charge from a fully charged cell and distributes it around to cells that are slightly under charged, bringing all cells up to maximum and balancing the entire pack. If this balancing isn’t done every so often, those undercharged cells weaken the whole structure and can cause issues as the pack ages.

John
 

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You will get all kinds of opinions. I charge mine to 100% two or three times per week. So far have not heard of any degradation on 17-19 Ioniq‘s.
 

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So far have not heard of any degradation on 17-19 Ioniq‘s.
Depending on the distance per year you drive and some climate factors, degradation will not be noticeable during the first 3 or 4 years because of the buffer that is available initially. More care for the battery by not keeping it on 100% for longer times only pays out later, say when the car is 5 to 10 years old.
 
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I had a 2018 Ioniq EV that departed my world with over 80,000km, and I now have a 2019 Ioniq EV approaching 40,000km. I charge it to 100% even if it's down to 96%. I got to work today with 9% charge remaining (a frequent scenario during spring/fall for my commuting) and charge it right back up to 100%. I have never had any degradation, both in practice, and as observed at the dealership looking at the battery health.

Like @nburd said, you will get lots of opinions on here about what you should do. My opinion is to just charge it and drive it. Then, charge it and drive it again, because it's a car.

The alternate opinions of what you SHOULD do to maintain battery longevity does have merit, as the batteries will degrade over time. This will also lead to conversations about the "battery buffer" that Hyundai has implemented (basically, 0% charge actually means around 10%, whereas a 100% charge actually means a 90% charge).

Search the forum on these topics, there are probably thousands of posts with people opinions.

Every approach is correct if it fits your lifestyle, your needs, and your own opinions on what you should do. But my experience with keeping it always fully charged has not translated to any observed degradation on my previous car after over 80,000km, and I have probably shorted my battery lifespan a little bit, but I also like new things and will probably get rid of the car before the battery becomes totally unusable for me.
 

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Common wisdom related to the longevity of lithium type batteries in general, says to try and keep the battery between 20% and 80% and only charge to 100% immediately before a long trip, and at least monthly to balance cells. I charge to 80% for my daily commute and to 100% on Monday mornings. This suites my commute as it uses about 50% of my range. So far, with 102k km on the clock, I've no noticeable degradation. But as mentioned above, there are a million (or more) opinions and permutations on what to do and how to do it. Generally, the IONIQ batteries seem to last well no matter that people do to them.
 
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This is a great article on the subject. The my16-19 ioniq has good sized buffers but is also a real pain to charge to anything other than 100%. I would love the feature of the newer cars with a limiter.

I charge mine to 100% during the night before driving, during summer i might try to limit it somewhat and stop the charge at 70-80%, but its a pain.
 

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Interesting article, it suggests going into the 0%-10% is not a big deal, even 70%-80% is more damaging than 0%-10%.

This article does suggest to avoid regularly going to or near 100%.

And yet the fact remains that all the people that drove to 100,000km/miles or so with 2016/2017 Ioniqs and charged to 100% constantly seem to report little degradation.

Hard to judge if that´s really because of the buffer. I suppose we´ll have to wait until we get reports coming in of people that say that they have driven 150,000 or 200,000km.

Isn´t the buffer only about 10% though? So degradation can´t be that bad??

Ioniq Man, if you really need 100%, or if it´s a lot of bother to stop it going to 100%, I wouldn´t worry about it. If it´s very easy to stop it at 70% or 80% and that´s all you need, you may as well.
 

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If someone wanted to get to work, plug it in at say 8.30AM and come back at say 5PM to have it at 80% instead of 100% could you set the "departure time" to 6PM? Does this cause it to aim to be at 100% by 6PM, meaning that if you arrive at 5PM and unplug it manually, you might be at say 80% or whatever. Would that work?

(Let´s assume that the work place has multiple chargers and you´ve never seen them all in use at once, so you are not blocking anyone else.)
 

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If someone wanted to get to work, plug it in at say 8.30AM and come back at say 5PM to have it at 80% instead of 100% could you set the "departure time" to 6PM? Does this cause it to aim to be at 100% by 6PM, meaning that if you arrive at 5PM and unplug it manually, you might be at say 80% or whatever. Would that work?
Unfortunatly the departure timer does not aim to be fully charged at the departure time, it preheats/cools the car and if needed heats the battery. The charge will start the moment you plug in and charge at full availible power untill the battery is full or you unplug.

We can mitigate this two ways:
1. Using the tariff charge setting to limit the charge time, say you set it to 0830-1430 and then if you charge at ex. 12A(~2.7kW) for the 6h you should get about 60%, you will have to test what power the intended outlet gives, so you know how many % you charge per hour then fine tune it untill you know how long it needs to charge to get the desired soc. (This is how i do it when limiting)
2. Limit the charge power (either on the charger or through the cars infotainment) to increase charge duration so it does not have time to fully charge, also going to need some testing to get it right and you run the risk of not having enough juice that day you get off early.
 

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The theory is that most of the battery wear is done higher up the charge %
Charging 0-100% is one cycle
However charging say 20% to 40% does not count as 1/5 of a cycle.
But charging 80-100% causes about 8/10 as much wear as a full cycle.
Some say around 10-50% is the sweet spot for most cycles/ least wear. Ie 10-50% counts as around 5/100th of a cycle, whereas 50-100% counts as 90/100ths of a cycle.
So if say a battery has 500 cycles before degradation becomes apparent, charging lots of time 80- 100% will theoretically degrade the battery faster. So if you charged 80-100 every day for 2 years, the battery would have done around 500 full cycle equivalents. So may start showing some heavy degradation.
Conversely, if you only ever charged 10-50%, and this represented 5/100ths of a cycle, then a 500 cycle battery would last for 10,000 "cycles" like that if charged that way.

However, most car batteries have a top buffer, so charging to 100 isn't really 100% anyway. Which limits degradation somewhat.
 

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However, most car batteries have a top buffer, so charging to 100 isn't really 100% anyway. Which limits degradation somewhat.
Not clear to me in the article posted above if the BMZ/Samsung tests, when they charge to 100%, are really charging to the true 100%...perhaps not (?)
 

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We can mitigate this two ways:
1. Using the tariff charge setting to limit the charge time, say you set it to 0830-1430 and then if you charge at ex. 12A(~2.7kW) for the 6h you should get about 60%
This could be the solution that Ioniq Man needs?

Assuming you are not blocking up the charger for hours after stopped charging when someone else might need it?
 

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Not clear to me in the article posted above if the BMZ/Samsung tests, when they charge to 100%, are really charging to the true 100%...perhaps not (?)
No I don't think they do, and I think even mobile phones these days don't all charge to true 100%. 100% is just the top of the max voltage per cell I believe, so by charging to a lower voltage I think they have realised that cycle life can be massively increased, for a relatively small loss of total capacity?
 
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Not clear to me in the article posted above if the BMZ/Samsung tests, when they charge to 100%, are really charging to the true 100%...perhaps not (?)
Are you able to measure the cell voltages? I reckon, at 100% SoC you won't see 4.2V, but rather something around 4.11V, so even if you fully charge, you only can charge up to ~90%, already trippling the cycles from 500 to 1500.

Then, it makes a large difference how long you let the car stay with this high SoC. If a dealer can't sell an EV for month but always fully charge because of ignorance, then there will be a noticable damage. If you daily charge up to 100% gross (~90% net) and empty it quickly, the higher voltages have not much time to cause serious damage. Depending on the minimum SoC where you charge again, you might already be in the 2000 cycles section. 2000 cycles for, let's say, 150km highway already mean 300.000km.
 

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As you already can see, there are as many opinions on this as there are Ioniqs. The rule of thumb is to not leave the car with 100 % charge over time. I charge my car to 100 % once/twice every week, and will continue to do so, as I use the car daily and it will never stay at 100 % more than a few hours at max. Hyundai even recommends charging to 100 % several times a month to balance the cells.

However, my mum's car (which is a Leaf) is set to 80 % charge limit, as she does not use the car daily, but keeps it plugged in when not in use.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
This could be the solution that Ioniq Man needs?

Assuming you are not blocking up the charger for hours after stopped charging when someone else might need it?
No, I don't block the charger... ChargePoint lets me know when the charging is done, and I'm usually 1/2 way along the .75 mile walk to the charger when I get that notice. Also, I leave a post it sticky note to let any potential other users know when my charge session should be done, and the spot will be vacant again.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
This is a great article on the subject. The my16-19 ioniq has good sized buffers but is also a real pain to charge to anything other than 100%. I would love the feature of the newer cars with a limiter.

I charge mine to 100% during the night before driving, during summer i might try to limit it somewhat and stop the charge at 70-80%, but its a pain.
This is a very good article... thank you!!
 

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Unfortunatly the departure timer does not aim to be fully charged at the departure time, it preheats/cools the car and if needed heats the battery. The charge will start the moment you plug in and charge at full availible power untill the battery is full or you unplug.
Interesting, my 28 doesn't start charging until it needs to and aims to reach 100% by my departure time. When I plug it in, it does not start charging immediately. Indeed my on-street Ubitricity service emails me to tell me something went wrong with the charging because it detected that the car didn't draw any power after 10 minutes being connected. But the charge did start later in the night.
 
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@chrisgeary that is weird, if mine is set to charge now and a departure time set departure time +10h ahead it will start immidiatley and finish prior to departure. Both at work and home. Only way I can delay it either by telling my home charger to delay the start of charge(to time with the low price hours) or by setting a tarriff timer instead of charge now in the car.
 
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