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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys, I almost freaked out when I drove Ioniq hybrid today. Im used to large diesel vehicles but the tech nerd in me just knew it: I want one. But not hybrid, i want plugin or ev version.

I live 70km from my work. So... its 70km morning, 70km afternoon. I got a charging plug in my workplace. Should I choose Ioniq plugin or Ioniq EV?

Just as a note, my wife has a new ford focus diesel if it gets really cold, like -20C or so, so the ioniq is not the only option in family. But its 3-4 months around 0- -10C in here. Will the range suffer too much to have EV version? I can charge at work every day if necessary.

Thanks in advance :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Just to clarify: I do this every day. So I drive 40 000-50 000 km per year. Is the Ioniq my choice? I loved the hybrid, im interested in EV but should I choose plugin over EV due to my quite heavy usage?
 

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when plugged in charging the Ioniq has a battery warmer function to keep the battery up to a reasonable temperature so range is not affected, so long as you don't forget to plug it in night time temperature should not be a problem


if you do a search on here I posted a link to the owner manuals which give more information on temperature issues affecting range and performance and how Hyundai have used various technologies to get round them


the battery warranty is 200,000km so you have 4-5 years of worry free motoring from a battery point of view,


the range of the Ioniq is plenty for your daily commute if you can charge the EV at work, if you have to only charge it at home then it should be enough depending on use of lights, heater, heated seats etc, we have not had any reports on how badly these affect range on the EV


if you have a charge point at work then both are options, it will come down to the economics of the cars


what offers an incentives are provided by Hyundai and your government to drive an eco car?


how much per litre is you fuel to work out you fuel costs per month,
does your employer charge for use of the charger at work?,
how much would it cost you to charge the car at home each night?


personally here in the UK I would love an electric Ioniq, but my commute to the office is 195 miles which is more than the range of the Ioniq so my choice is the hybrid


and the government here are more interested in raising revenue from road tax than encouraging econonimcal / low emission cars, as of next april they change road tax rates and the road tax on Ioniqs purchased after 1st april will change from £0 to £140 (155 euro) after the first year the same as many far more polluting petrol or diesel cars, total stupidity in my mind
 

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Hi Jaanika,
Glad to hear you were as impressed as I am.
The EV should have more than enough range for your 70km commutes, even in the Finnish cold, and probably even if you could only charge it at home.
The plug-in hybrid is not yet available (est. end of Q1?), so unless you want to wait, the choice for now is between the regular hybrid and the EV.
My wife and I still had range anxiety given how we use our car, so we went for the hybrid. Our next car will probably be an all-electric.
Interesting test here, in Norwegian:
Test av Hyundai IONIQ Electric: Svært effektiv nykommer | Norsk elbilforening
 

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that is a nice article (via google translate), none of the usual cut and paste of the Hyundai press release


good information about power consumption and how it drives


we need more of this real world sort of review, rather than cut and paste type
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
the battery warranty is 200,000km so you have 4-5 years of worry free motoring from a battery point of view,

the range of the Ioniq is plenty for your daily commute if you can charge the EV at work, if you have to only charge it at home then it should be enough depending on use of lights, heater, heated seats etc, we have not had any reports on how badly these affect range on the EV

if you have a charge point at work then both are options, it will come down to the economics of the cars

what offers an incentives are provided by Hyundai and your government to drive an eco car?

how much per litre is you fuel to work out you fuel costs per month,
does your employer charge for use of the charger at work?,
how much would it cost you to charge the car at home each night?
Thanks for your comments :)

I like the idea of battery heater. I suppose the car inside heater is the biggest battery hog in winter... but as I can charge in both home and work, it should not be an issue. Another factor might be the traffic jams, which are not bad at all. Well, highway speeds consume also battery.

The reason to think of EV is really the fuel cost and partly my cup of tea to reduce co2 emissions. 150km daily equals at least 15litres diesel (3.0l engine) per day (around 20€), which sums up to about 400€ per month. If Ioniq has +1kwh/10km consumption (according to a norwegian article below), 20kwh (around 2€) per 150km should be quite a safe bet. So even if I pay all the electricity myself, the fuel cost might be as low as 1/10th with EV when compared to large diesel. If the save is lower, only 50-80%, its still loads of money. I dont think I shall even miss the V6 engine sound if I stick some fuel bills onto Ioniq dashboard as a reminder :D

Tax authorities have even thought that they should charge for this benefit that people charge their cars @work. I don't mind if they do, its peanuts anyway.

I think I need to start to investigate the charger network... and cross my fingers they dont overprice the EV version... 1st cars should be in here about until new year I guess.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi Jaanika,
Glad to hear you were as impressed as I am.
The EV should have more than enough range for your 70km commutes, even in the Finnish cold, and probably even if you could only charge it at home.
The plug-in hybrid is not yet available (est. end of Q1?), so unless you want to wait, the choice for now is between the regular hybrid and the EV.
My wife and I still had range anxiety given how we use our car, so we went for the hybrid. Our next car will probably be an all-electric.
Interesting test here, in Norwegian:
Thanks, this was very interesting :) I actually understood the article as it was quite close to Swedish :D

But really, the hybrid was good. Better feeling of the road than many opel, renault or toyota, or even ford mondeo. Worse than bmw or mercedes, but not that much worse if you look at the price tag.
 

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working on the figures here in the UK for the EV it is £29,000 - £31,000 depending on model without UK government EV subsidy, that equates roughly to 315,000 - 340,000 Swedish krona


the hybrid is due to be about £25,000 - £27,000 depending on model the last estimate I saw, but not due for release until may / june 2017 in the UK
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
This was quite interesting:
Hyundai IONIQ electric range test - Push EVs

I am still waiting for the real life experiences for EV... as the articles I have ready vary from 10kWh/100km to 16-17kWh/100km.

And this quite a positive article claims that the consumption is about 17kWh/100km.
Hyundai IONIQ EV is the most efficient car on sale - Push EVs

With my driving scene (80-120kmh all the way to work) the real range might be around 100km-140km with 28kWh battery during winter (heating needed).

Maybe I'm back with the hybrid version (or even low-consumption diesel) if this is correct :)
 

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I'll take the anti-BEV argument.

1. You said CO2 emissions are important to you. The BEV will not be cleaner than the HEV in that respect unless your electric source is nuclear. If your electric source is predominantly coal, CO2 emissions will be higher with the BEV. Even if your electric source is hydroelectric, there are CO2 emissions associated with that: Scientists Just Discovered a Major New Source of Carbon Emissions

2. I don't have the numbers, but the BEV will be considerably heavier than the HEV (500lbs?) and the extra batteries will significantly reduce cargo space.

3. If you drive to work and become ill and need to drive back home you'll do so with range anxiety. If you become further ill and need to see a doctor, you're stuck because your battery is dead and it will take hours to recharge. Point is that there are a lot of sudden side trips that we use our conventional cars for all the time that we take for granted because of the long range and short refuel time. With a BEV, you'll be locked out of many of those minor emergency trips because of the short range combined with long recharge time.

4. Your employment situation may change. If a better opportunity opens up somewhere else you may need to get rid of your BEV because it no longer meets your distance requirements. Then you'll suffer the BEV depreciation slamdown that Nissan Leaf owners are so familiar with. All those people in your community that live in apts. or are otherwise garageless will not be wanting your used BEV. The depreciation of BEVs is brutal. Google it. Depreciation will likely overwhelm any fuel cost advantage the BEV might have.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Now those were some good points of view, thanks Jay!

About depreciation of BEV's I know of. If I drove 5 -7 years til the end of warranty, I have quite a modern electric vehicle, driven thousands of battery cycles. It is a tempting car to offer for car retailer when I want to have a new one? No. In practice, from market perspective, I may have even "consumed" the whole car as the battery might need change after 8 years and the warranty is ending.

Becoming ill is another perspective I did not think of. However, in my use case I would charge the battery every time immediately after drive.

I suppose the only option would be to change the EV car every 2-3 years, to keep it fresh. The value drop might be closer to a conventional car.

I would love to know how the manufacturer has thought of BEV service lifespan in here. With my current conventional car, I have had to change both the gearbox and front differential, as it is "not possible" to fix any worn bearings. For heavens sake, bearings are mechanical parts and they tend to wear out. Come on, Mercedes, you can do better in car driven under 200 000km.

And for little surprise trips, we do have a regular car... but is there point to use it, if you have a new car on the yard? (charging... charging... charging...)
 

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Regarding the lifespan of the batteries, Hyundai has a generous warranty, but the true lifetime of the batteries is a question mark. Toyota has long experience with the old NiMH batteries and the lifetime is well established. The longevity of the new Li-Ion batteries is unproven--and that goes for the HEV batteries as well as the PHEV and BEV batteries. I think the auto manufacturers realize this and would rather sell these HEV, PHEV, and BEV autos in small numbers so that if the batteries don't last as long as hoped, the manufacturers aren't out a ton of money.
 

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Quick answer from an Ionic EV owner,

I just got one last thursday for commuting and some work trips. My commute is 70 Miles each way. After a 70 mile journey the battery has 33% left, so one third left. Thats averaging 60mph and some hills. Temp 2 deg c. So in the cold at motorway speeds I would suggest 110 miles is the low End.

Last night I had a mad moment so left home and did a lap of the M25 at midnight for no reason other to have a drive, 1 dec C, trip planned would have been 125 miles total, about half way I had 40 miles left, so about 75 done and I was doing 70Mph. Decided i couldent make it unless I stopped and charged for 30 minutes.

In summary in cold weather driving on the motorway (basicaly the worst situation for an EV) is 110 miles.
If I were to do 55 Mph I would have been able to complete the circit even in the cold, so 125 miles if your sensible.
In the summer at the 55mph speed I would expect 150 miles.

Ill test that in 6 months when its 20degC. I saw a youtube video of some one getting 215 miles. That would only be possible on the flat, at 20degC at 40Mph and no AC.

Summary, 110-150 miles is normal.

Few side notes,

Max speed of the car was 109Mph - only done for testing purposes. At this speed the last 25% of the battery was gone in 5 minutes. Then with 3% left it dropped to low power mode, about 50Mph and with 1% left it droped to emergency power, about 20Mph. I cralled on the the drive at 2am almost empty and plugged into my slow charger, it said 15 hours till full.

Consider it tested.
 

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Well done Shaunuk ! That is brilliant information from a hands-on owner. That has helped me a lot. To know the possibilities in cold weathers is great. I have not got my Ioniq Electric yet but that makes me feel much happier about going all electric in February or March when cash released from house sale.


My daily mileage will average 70 miles per day out and back. If you can get 75 miles at 70 MPH and still have 33% left - I'm happy. Great Information to us none owners (yet).


Enjoy your car !
 

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Hi Jaanika. You asked which version of the Ioniq for commuting? I feel that the all electric IONIQ will do you fine, plus a bit of local running around. So based on say 160 kms per day (100 miles), and starting with full charge at home


In warm temps, say 20 C, at 100km/h (62 mph) - your full days commute with power to spare.
In warm temps, say 20 C, at 130km/h (81 mph) - a PART charge at work will make you feel happier on the way home.
In warm temps, say 20 C, at 50 km/h (31 mph) - charge every 2 days - but boring.


In cold temps, say -10 C, at 100 km/h - recharge at work to get you home
In cold temps, say -10 C, at 50 km/h - full days commute - probably !


The way I work it out at very cold temps - worst case scenario - 3 - 5 year old battery with some degradation, and say -20 C = HALF OF MANUFACTURERES MAXIMUM RANGE. i.e. for Ioniq electric = 140km (87 miles) at reasonable speeds. I take it you will not be driving "fast" at -20 C!


As a rule of thumb this 50% applies to ANY battery vehicle that is so years old.
 

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it will be interesting to see battery drop off due to age and temperature


so should the Li-Po in the Ioniq be better or worse than the NiMh in the prius?


I know the charge times should be better, the output current should be better and shouldn't suffer from the memory effect of the NiMh of the prius




perhaps a google around to see if any tesla owners can report range drop off? some have been out there a year or so now, which may provide some data for us?


the interesting question would be at what level of original capacity would Hyundai consider a warranty claimfor a failed battery?
 

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For the Prius Plug In with its 4.4 kWh Li-ion battery I have done an analysis of battery degradation for about 10 cases; see here.

There was much variation due to different distances per year and warmer or colder climate. The average was about 2% to 3% degradation per year. See also here.
 

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Well. There is one of our answers. say 3% per annum, over 5 years = 15%. Cold temp reports in UK on Speakev and MyIoniq of around 30% loss of range. Add the 2 together gives 45% lost of range. Not too far from the 50% rule of thumb - worst case scenario.


As to the Hyundai warranty. I have been trying to find out what is covered by the warranty for the last 2 months. I have e-mailed Hyundai who said "no info due to information restrictions" ? ? ? I have asked on this forum and had no replies. Yesterday I visited my local Hyundai dealer. One sales person said she would find on Monday. A male sales rep said nobody knows what is warranted (for 8 years or 125,000 miles) as no-one had made a claim yet so the dealership did not know what would be covered - or not. ? ? ? ? ? ? Confusion or what !
 
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