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Audi or Ioniq 5

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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As I try and keep up with all the electric news I have reserved an ioniq 5 limited, but now I see this Audi q4 sportback! Which is sexy btw Hyundai pushing out the Ioniq 5 to winter now, and further delaying the price release is kinda pissing me off. Thinking about that now if i'm going to have to continue to wait anyway why not wait for the Audi vs a Hyundai. Yes "brand snob" like most Americans are going to take an audi over a Hyundai what should I do?
 

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At least half considered the Q4 etron in the UK; didn’t get to the point of deciding sportback or otherwise. Decided on I5 over Q4 because:
  • Having been a BMW driver (part-exchanging an X3 for the I5), not sure I could handle being an Audi owner ;)
  • It just looks like ‘a normal car’ - the I5 makes more of the electric platform with its light and open space feeling
  • Not sure on charging speed but think the I5 trumps it
  • It would have been significantly more money to get a similar spec car
Having been a BMW driver, I would have been more likely to get the iX3, but with no AWD option, it is a non-starter for me. And again it’s not shifting the world of EVs forward really, and would have been significantly more money.

The I5 is the first car I will have bought that actually feels like ‘good value’! (To be shortly followed by an EV6 :D)
 

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I have been putting off driving the id4 because I know the one wheel drive models won't be sufficient for me. With the recently announced delays, I've had to rethink this decision and find myself contemplating going to drive a RWD model soon to test out the infotainment, driving manners, etc...

The id4 and the q4 et are going to be very similar. I hate that VAG held out on the AR system for just the Audi, but am not surprised.

If the VW meets my expectations then I know Audi will easily surpass them. I know I'm just one consumer and could easily be wrong, but I think most consumers are going to pick the q4 over the i5 if comparable trims are priced the same.
 

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Ioniq 5 rwd 73 kw on order, expected 30/11
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I took a good look at all 3 Vw models, the id4, q4 and skoda enyaq. The skoda was clearly the best for me. Solid look, beautiful interior, great to drive, … It looked and felt better. The Audi needed 10-15k on extra investment for comparable trim. And it felt vey much like just another audi. A car for my boss or my dad. A lot of people will surely like that, but I wasn’t giving 55k on just another suv. The id4 was just ordinary, a total no risk approach. It felt like the car that would have made a fuzz 3 or 4 years ago. Now it just felt outdated and with a cheap interior for the price level.
it is a shame Audi are allowing skoda only a small number of parts leading to a very long wait time….
 

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I've just ordered an Ioniq 5 after a test drive at the weekend. I also went I to the Audi dealer and looked at a Q4 in the showroom. I used to have an A4 but was disappointed by the Q4. Interior quality not up to the usual standard. Had the chance to compare with a Q5 which was much nicer.

I would say the I5 is comparable to the Q5, but both are a cut above Q4 both in space and quality
 

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I quite like the shape of the Audi Q4 Sportback. Well, except for the big fake grill. All the photos of the interior look dark, dark, dark to me, but the car seems to have more real, physical buttons than the ID.4. So a mixed bag. Not sure how soon we'll see a Q4 in the flesh in the U.S.
 

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For me it was charging speed and value for money. You don't get much more (if not less) bells and whistles on the Q4 that the IONIQ 5 doesn't have.
And it charges sloooooowly. At 150kW max of om not mistaken. Wouldn't want to make a roadtrip with it..
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I have been putting off driving the id4 because I know the one wheel drive models won't be sufficient for me. With the recently announced delays, I've had to rethink this decision and find myself contemplating going to drive a RWD model soon to test out the infotainment, driving manners, etc...

The id4 and the q4 et are going to be very similar. I hate that VAG held out on the AR system for just the Audi, but am not surprised.

If the VW meets my expectations then I know Audi will easily surpass them. I know I'm just one consumer and could easily be wrong, but I think most consumers are going to pick the q4 over the i5 if comparable trims are priced the same.
Completely agree with the fact people will make that choose to drive the q4 over the i5. It wouldn't surprise me if when audi announced that they were going to pretty much take over the low 40-mid 50K range it made Hyundai rethink and try and figure a way to make the i5 cheaper in the US. Most people in America that can afford this type of car for this price point are going to choose an Audi over Hyundai 10x out of 10.
 

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I agree that the Audi looks just like another Audi and is far smaller inside and out - the first part may be a plus to you but it's no head turner and the grill is a joke. ID4 is hideous by comparison and the infotainment looks like a 1st generation ipad glued to a big chunk of plastic and has loads of issues (still I believe) - it drives well though, probably a little smoother than the Ioniq 5 on 20 inch wheels (possibly unfair - the id4 i drove had 19"). Me and the mrs both love the Ioniq 5 and she is normally a complete brand snob. The light grey interior looks very special. Only other car I would have been tempted by was the Tesla Y and that's not in the UK until next year sometime.
 

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I get that the Ioniq 5 is going to get more votes in an Ioniq 5 form (who'd a thunk it). I have tried quite a few EVs recently and ended up deciding on a Q4 Sportback. I am not going to vote in the poll as I would not want to feel like I was justifying my own decision.

For me the Q4 was superior in fit and finish over the Ioniq 5 and also was less mushy and floaty to drive. My biggest subjective problem with the Ioniq 5 is that it just looked like it was trying far too hard to be cool and a fashion accessory. The thing with fashion is that next year it will be so last year. Subjectively to me the Q4 Sportback just looked a more elegant and sporty in an effortlessly stylish way but not in a "look at me, I'm in your face cool" way. The Ioniq 5 was suffering from an existential crisis by comparison, it was trying to be retro but modern, and a small hot hatch but and SUV.

The Ioniq 5 does have better charging speeds if you do lots of longer distance travel. For me though saving an extra 10 minutes charging once a year is not a must have feature.

You also need to ignore every review that has ever been written/posted. "Professional" reviews are only good to get some feel for the aesthetics and features. My advice to the OP is to try both on a test drive and pick objectively instead of asking random strangers on a dedicated Ioniq 5 forum.
 

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The IONIQ 5's 800 volt charging capability seems like a good way to future-proof the vehicle. On paper, I like the IONIQ 5 a bit better, but I'll withhold judgment until I see both vehicles in person. I'm crossing my fingers that the LA Auto Show will actually take place as scheduled in November, and I plan to go there to see all the new EVs.
 

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I tested the Q4, ID.4, Ioniq 5 and the Mach-E within the past few months. I can tell you that no matter what one you pick it will be a very nice car. Each one had their positives and negatives. If I were picking a sporty exciting drive I would pick the Mach-E AWD. For quality and finish the Q4 was better than the others, as well as a mix of being sporty and comfortable with adaptive suspension and 50 Quattro options ticked. If you plan to do frequent longer range trips then the Ioniq 5 is best. I never even looked at the Tesla's, just not interested at all.

For me the most important thing in picking a car is to get one you always enjoy looking at and driving, but do not make that the only reason to get it. For EVs it is important to look at ragne, charging curve, efficiency and battery size. All to often people only look at the 100% battery range. For example the Mach-E charging speed drops to ~10kW from 80 - 100% battery on rapid chargers. So this means getting that last 20% of battery takes about 1 hour and in effect makes 20% of the Mach-E batterly unusable unless charging overnight.

If we look at the larger battery AWD versions.
The Mach-E has the biggest battery but the worst charging curve and 100% charge gives ~270 miles of range.. It takes ~43 minutes to get 208 miles of range added from 10% - 80%.

The Q4 Sportback gets the second biggest battery and the charging curve better than the Mach-E. It takes ~ 35 minutes to add 205 miles of range from 10% - 80%. 100% range is ~260 miles of range

The Ioniq 5 has the smallest battery and takes ~18 minutes to add 188 miles of range from 10% to 80%. 100% charge gives ~235 miles of range.

All worth considering.
 

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There was a TV show years ago where two people were discussing how to find the best significant other. One of them uttered one of the most intelligent, broad-application lines I've ever heard: "Everyone wants a custom fit in an off-the-rack world." I think that applies to cars as well.

I haven't driven any of the current crop of EVs. But I've done a lot of research, and I have a decades-long track record of being able to interpret reviews well enough to be pretty accurate in my expectations for a new purchase - some of which were made with no test drive. That said, everything that follows here is no more than expectation, subject to getting my butt in the driver's seat of some real EVs.

On paper, a Model Y is probably my best bet. It has really sharp, capable handling, performance is very strong, it has the most cargo capacity, it's the most efficient and the Supercharger network is top notch. But Tesla brings a lot of baggage with it. Build quality is wildly inconsistent, to the extent I'd have to be ready to reject the car upon delivery. Road trips can be risky since the nearest service center might be several hundred miles away. Tesla service only swaps assemblies, and some repair costs are sheer lunacy. (Ask the guy who found a cracked plastic battery coolant pipe - that Tesla failed to protect from common road debris - which they offered to fix by replacing the entire battery pack. For $16k. Or the journalist whose dog puked on a test drive, which fouled a seat belt buckle, which Tesla service suggested would require replacing the entire rear seat assembly. For what, maybe $1000?)

Also not inconsequential is the fact that many Tesla fans are nuts. There - I said it out loud. I can understand their enthusiasm for Tesla because Tesla has quite a story so far. But seriously, some of these fanbois have absolutely no clue what they're talking about, yet they'll state it with absolute conviction that borders on, or exceeds, religious fervor. It makes researching this stuff exhausting. What normal person wants to be associated with that? It has become so bad that Tesla is the brand EV haters love to hate. Sentry Mode on Teslas came to be at least in part because Tesla haters would key the cars or vandalize them in other ways simply because they're Teslas. I have no need for such drama.

Moving on, the ID.4 is a fine car for first-time EVers, but I'm not a first-timer. (I was building my own EV over 20 years ago, before Tesla existed.) For some reason VW has neutered one of the most attractive benefits of an EV, that off-the-line rush that ICEVs can't match. It looks nice enough, has decent cargo capability, but interior materials are cheapish, range is OK but charging is a bit slow. Hopefully they'll work through the software glitches that are still happening.

I'm actually rather amazed that the "upscale" Audi Q4 on the same platform is hobbled off the line like the ID.4. Really not smart. Especially for an SUV that is supposed to be an ID.4 with more panache and a MUCH higher price.

For some reason I just can't get excited about the Mustang MachE. Performance and cargo capacity are good, handling is reasonably sharp, but OMG - that cartoonish body styling looks like a kid's toy. (If I somehow came to own one I'd put Hot Wheels flaming swoosh logos on it just for fun. Now that I've planted that image in your head, you won't be able to see one without thinking about it. You're welcome. 😉) I remember the original Mustang and what it was all about, so putting that name on an electric SUV is little better than confusing. Efficiency and charging speed are nothing great either. And as odd as the central touchscreen was in the original Teslas, but which now seems somewhat normal, the Mustang somehow made it odd again. Not a fan.

The Ioniq 5 is a pretty strong contender for me. Not the best cargo capacity, but the most flexible interior with the most useful shape. Seems like a great balance of old and new in the dash/screens layout. Plenty of performance. Top notch quality and materials. Nice look, though I don't understand why the auto-journos are going so gaga over it - seems reasonably subdued to me. Range is fine, almost a match for Tesla in real-world terms. (Though apparently not for high-speed travel - Tesla still has an aero advantage there.) World's fastest charging, and the Electrify America network is growing rapidly. Most Tesla/Ioniq comparisons of trips on A Better Route Planner seem to come out a toss-up. And V2L is pretty desirable given the spotty performance of the grid in my area.

The biggest failing of the 5 for me is the floaty-soft chassis. The only reason that's not a deal-killer for me is that there will be an N version with better suspension, and I figure I can swap in some N shocks and sway bars to tighten things up a bit without going all racer-harsh. Hopefully there will be some N bits or a software tweak that can put some feel into the uber-numb steering too.

Of course all of this is a moving target. The Model Y especially, since they have some fairly major changes coming as the Texas and Berlin factories come closer to completion. Might have to wait until the next-gen Y hits the streets. If it's just too compelling for me, I might have to buy in and figure out ways to mitigate the pitfalls of Tesla ownership.
 

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There was a TV show years ago where two people were discussing how to find the best significant other. One of them uttered one of the most intelligent, broad-application lines I've ever heard: "Everyone wants a custom fit in an off-the-rack world." I think that applies to cars as well.

I haven't driven any of the current crop of EVs. But I've done a lot of research, and I have a decades-long track record of being able to interpret reviews well enough to be pretty accurate in my expectations for a new purchase - some of which were made with no test drive. That said, everything that follows here is no more than expectation, subject to getting my butt in the driver's seat of some real EVs.

On paper, a Model Y is probably my best bet. It has really sharp, capable handling, performance is very strong, it has the most cargo capacity, it's the most efficient and the Supercharger network is top notch. But Tesla brings a lot of baggage with it. Build quality is wildly inconsistent, to the extent I'd have to be ready to reject the car upon delivery. Road trips can be risky since the nearest service center might be several hundred miles away. Tesla service only swaps assemblies, and some repair costs are sheer lunacy. (Ask the guy who found a cracked plastic battery coolant pipe - that Tesla failed to protect from common road debris - which they offered to fix by replacing the entire battery pack. For $16k. Or the journalist whose dog puked on a test drive, which fouled a seat belt buckle, which Tesla service suggested would require replacing the entire rear seat assembly. For what, maybe $1000?)

Also not inconsequential is the fact that many Tesla fans are nuts. There - I said it out loud. I can understand their enthusiasm for Tesla because Tesla has quite a story so far. But seriously, some of these fanbois have absolutely no clue what they're talking about, yet they'll state it with absolute conviction that borders on, or exceeds, religious fervor. It makes researching this stuff exhausting. What normal person wants to be associated with that? It has become so bad that Tesla is the brand EV haters love to hate. Sentry Mode on Teslas came to be at least in part because Tesla haters would key the cars or vandalize them in other ways simply because they're Teslas. I have no need for such drama.

Moving on, the ID.4 is a fine car for first-time EVers, but I'm not. (I was building my own EV over 20 years ago, before Tesla existed.) For some reason VW has neutered one of the most attractive benefits of an EV, that off-the-line rush that ICEVs can't match. It looks nice enough, has decent cargo capability, but interior materials are cheapish, range is OK but charging is a bit slow. Hopefully they'll work through the software glitches that are still happening.

I'm actually rather amazed that the "upscale" Audi Q4 on the same platform is hobbled off the line like the ID.4. Really not smart. Especially for an SUV that is supposed to be an ID.4 with more panache and a MUCH higher price.

For some reason I just can't get excited about the Mustang MachE. Performance and cargo capacity are good, handling is reasonably sharp, but OMG - that cartoonish body styling looks like a kid's toy. (If I somehow came to own one I'd put Hot Wheels flaming swoosh logos on it just for fun. Now that I've planted that image in your head, you won't be able to see one without thinking about it. You're welcome. 😉) I remember the original Mustang and what it was all about, so putting that name on an electric SUV is little better than confusing. Efficiency and charging speed are nothing great either. And as odd as the central touchscreen was in the original Teslas, but which now seems somewhat normal, the Mustang somehow made it odd again. Not a fan.

The Ioniq 5 is a pretty strong contender for me. Not the best cargo capacity, but the most flexible interior with the most useful shape. Seems like a great balance of old and new in the dash/screens layout. Plenty of performance. Top notch quality and materials. Nice look, though I don't understand why the auto-journos are going so gaga over it - seems reasonably subdued to me. Range is fine, almost a match for Tesla in real-world terms. (Though apparently not for high-speed travel - Tesla still has an aero advantage there.) World's fastest charging, and the Electrify America network is growing rapidly. Most Tesla/Ioniq comparisons of trips on A Better Route Planner seem to come out a toss-up.

The biggest failing of the 5 for me is the floaty-soft chassis. The only reason that's not a deal-killer for me is that there will be an N version with better suspension, and I figure I can swap in some N shocks and sway bars to tighten things up a bit without going all racer-harsh. Hopefully there will be some N bits or a software tweak that can put some feel into the uber-numb steering too.

Of course all of this is a moving target. The Model Y especially, since they have some fairly major changes coming as the Texas and Berlin factories come closer to completion. Might have to wait until the next-gen Y hits the streets. If it's just too compelling for me, I might have to buy in and figure out ways to mitigate the pitfalls of Tesla ownership.
Thanks for the thoughtful, well written and interesting read. For me, it is not only the fan boys but Musk as well that tempers my Tesla enthusiasm.
 

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You are absolutely correct about Tesla and their fanatical fans and get that not all are like that but the ones I have met are. I do see it with other brands at times as well and put it down to the human nature of confirmation bias.

I do find it odd that you feel the Ioniq 5 has top notch quality and materials, because I had been hearing that so much that I was expecting something special on the inside. When I finally got to sit in one I was not overly impressed and the Q4 was noticeably better for quality and materials. Not by a large margin but enough to be noticeable. I did find the Ioniq 5 better than the ID.4 in that area though and about on par with the Mach-E.

It also shows how subective opinions work because I thought the Mach-E was the best looking EV I tested. But objectively it was less practical and the materials were hit and miss compared to the Q4 Sportback.

So overall the Ioniq 5 was OK but certainly not top notch for quality and materials. I specifically thought the steering wheel felt a bit cheap to the touch and that is one area I am very particular on as it is where you feel the car 100% of the time. Honestly nothing that would deter me from owning one because my biggest issue was on the looks and styling and that is purely subjective.

I was close to going with the Mach-E but when I priced it up spec for spec against the Q4, the Mach-E was 10% more expensive on the monthly lease.
 

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I like reading these perspective from different people. Here’s mine:
I originally reserved an ID4 AWD Pro S last year. I have only been considering AWD vehicles and the ID4 is the cheapest AWD EV available so far. I liked that the dimensions of the vehicle were very similar to my current car, and that the design was somewhat subdued. I’m used to driving a car that no one would ever look at, and that anonymity is nice. I test drove an ID4 RWD and have seen the 1st edition, Pro S and Pro models. My impressions were mixed. I came into the test drive knowing most of the foibles, including the laggy infotainment screen, touch buttons everywhere, and no rear window controls, so the car was pretty much as expected. The car drove well, steering felt fine, and acceleration was good enough, especially knowing I would be getting the AWD. The infotainment screen in one of the cars was fine but another one was definitely slow. The brown and black interior was ugly and I couldn’t find a paint color I liked that didn’t come with that interior. What really irritated me were the unforced errors in the ergonomics. The haptic buttons on the steering wheel were awful and configured in a completely unintuitive way. Everything felt fiddly and hard to use when driving. I could probably get used to it, but it definitely soured my opinion of the car.
The Ford Mustang Mach-E is an interesting car but I would never consider it. I happen to think it looks nice, even though it does basically have a mustache for a grill. Two problems for me: 1) adding the Mustang name doesn’t make me like it more, it actually makes me like it less. I’m not a “Mustang” driver and I don’t want to defend a car that’s pretending to be one. 2) More importantly, I worked on a contract project for Ford several years ago and it made me never want to buy a Ford. Not an opinion on the company or the product, but I have a personal negative reaction to the brand that I can’t shake.
As for the Audi Q4, I thought about it briefly after being disappointed with the ID4. But I don’t know US pricing or specs yet, so it’s hard to consider it at this point.
As for Tesla, I agree with the comments above and will add a few personal points. The model Y is too big of a vehicle for me. I don’t want a car that’s much larger than my current car, and I wish I could drive something smaller. The Model Y seems to cost more to insure than something like an ID4, probably related to the high repair costs.
The Ioniq 5 checks a lot of boxes for me. It’s about the right size (bordering on too large, though) and I have had a good experience owning a Hyundai. It has a lot of great tech that isn’t available on the ID4 and the charging speed is nice, although probably not very relevant to my driving habits. My concerns are about the styling and the yet unknown price. I love the hatchback look of the vehicle, but the design is too busy in certain places. It’s like Hyundai couldn’t go with the minimum 15 pieces of flair. It’s also not a car that will go unnoticed, which gives me some concern.
Every car is a compromise, like @ctromley excellently pointed out. I think, for me, the Ioniq 5 is the best compromise at this time.
 

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I prefer these actual people reviews and opinions more than the stuff you see from "professionals". Funny you saying about an irrational hatred for Ford, I have one for Nissan. I had a Quashqai late 2014 model that was back to the dealer 12 times in the 18 months I owned it and Nissan were horrible to deal with. So I hate Nissan with a passion and I will never change my mind.

I learned far more on a 30 minute test drive on relative merits of each of these EVs cars than I ever will from any review. Ironically I thought the Ioniq 5 looked great in pictures until I saw one in the metal, yet I did not like the Mach-E from images but loved it in the metal.

The very thread is a very good indication of the processes and thoughts people go through when picking a car. Some love the more distinctive styling and some prefer the more normal "nothing to see here" look. One thing is certain, I am glad I did not pre-order a car based on some images I found on the net. It is far to big a decision to leave to that kind of chance.
 

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I like reading these perspective from different people. Here’s mine:
I originally reserved an ID4 AWD Pro S last year. I have only been considering AWD vehicles and the ID4 is the cheapest AWD EV available so far. I liked that the dimensions of the vehicle were very similar to my current car, and that the design was somewhat subdued. I’m used to driving a car that no one would ever look at, and that anonymity is nice. I test drove an ID4 RWD and have seen the 1st edition, Pro S and Pro models. My impressions were mixed. I came into the test drive knowing most of the foibles, including the laggy infotainment screen, touch buttons everywhere, and no rear window controls, so the car was pretty much as expected. The car drove well, steering felt fine, and acceleration was good enough, especially knowing I would be getting the AWD. The infotainment screen in one of the cars was fine but another one was definitely slow. The brown and black interior was ugly and I couldn’t find a paint color I liked that didn’t come with that interior. What really irritated me were the unforced errors in the ergonomics. The haptic buttons on the steering wheel were awful and configured in a completely unintuitive way. Everything felt fiddly and hard to use when driving. I could probably get used to it, but it definitely soured my opinion of the car.
The Ford Mustang Mach-E is an interesting car but I would never consider it. I happen to think it looks nice, even though it does basically have a mustache for a grill. Two problems for me: 1) adding the Mustang name doesn’t make me like it more, it actually makes me like it less. I’m not a “Mustang” driver and I don’t want to defend a car that’s pretending to be one. 2) More importantly, I worked on a contract project for Ford several years ago and it made me never want to buy a Ford. Not an opinion on the company or the product, but I have a personal negative reaction to the brand that I can’t shake.
As for the Audi Q4, I thought about it briefly after being disappointed with the ID4. But I don’t know US pricing or specs yet, so it’s hard to consider it at this point.
As for Tesla, I agree with the comments above and will add a few personal points. The model Y is too big of a vehicle for me. I don’t want a car that’s much larger than my current car, and I wish I could drive something smaller. The Model Y seems to cost more to insure than something like an ID4, probably related to the high repair costs.
The Ioniq 5 checks a lot of boxes for me. It’s about the right size (bordering on too large, though) and I have had a good experience owning a Hyundai. It has a lot of great tech that isn’t available on the ID4 and the charging speed is nice, although probably not very relevant to my driving habits. My concerns are about the styling and the yet unknown price. I love the hatchback look of the vehicle, but the design is too busy in certain places. It’s like Hyundai couldn’t go with the minimum 15 pieces of flair. It’s also not a car that will go unnoticed, which gives me some concern.
Every car is a compromise, like @ctromley excellently pointed out. I think, for me, the Ioniq 5 is the best compromise at this time.
I came from an ID.3 which is virtually identical to the ID.4 in terms of controls etc. You are exactly right when you say “I could probably get used to it”, I did and I could operate it competently but there was never any pleasure in using the controls if that makes sense.

Love your observation about the “minimum 15 pieces of flair” approach the designers of the Ioniq 5 took.
 
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