Can owners switch to a lithium 12v?

 

An AGM replacement is usually enough and not much more expensive than a standard lead/acid one.

 

Breaking down constantly? Really??
I admit I didn’t look at it, but that survey sounds a bit off.

 

ok, so both lead acid. flooded, lead acid, all the same to me. also, when i was looking, all the so called experts bad mouthed the lithium. i had a lithium in a prior car for several years, and it performed flawlessly, daily driver. so far, this one has, too

 

Can owners switch to a lithium 12v?

An AGM replacement is usually enough and not much more expensive than a standard lead/acid one.

The Ioniq 5 was developed using AGM batteries and the 12V BMS is compatible with AGM chemistry (Hyundai replaced the AGM in production with the current OEM battery presumably to save cost)

A Lithium 12V is likely not compatible with the Ioniq 5 12V BMS and there have been Hyundai techs here who suggested they if they serviced a car and found a Lithium battery they would have to report it. As I have posted before I would not want to take the car to a dealer for service (or worse a dead ICCU) with a Lithium battery installed. When it come to replacing our OEM battery (still being well maintained per a BM2 at 23 months and 21k miles) I will get an AGM.

 

The Ioniq 5 was developed using AGM batteries and the 12V BMS is compatible with AGM chemistry (Hyundai replaced the AGM in production with the current OEM battery presumably to save cost)

I think you have stated this before, wondering where the info comes from.

 

From the latest information it seems that one problem has been identified as the ICCU being started up at full power when it starts to charge the 12v battery using the DC to DC converter. So they have put forwards a software update that now starts that process using a well tried method of 'soft start' where there is a two phase start up. It begins with a low power switchover for a few seconds followed by full power after that pause. The effect is much kinder on the relays involved. Rather than going from off to full power in an instant they are now eased into full power over a short period. Many industrial processes use this system - known as 'Star Delta' switches.

Time will tell if this new process halts the rash of ICCU problems.

 

From the latest information it seems that one problem has been identified as the ICCU being started up at full power when it starts to charge the 12v battery using the DC to DC converter. So they have put forwards a software update that now starts that process using a well tried method of 'soft start' where there is a two phase start up. It begins with a low power switchover for a few seconds followed by full power after that pause. The effect is much kinder on the relays involved. Rather than going from off to full power in an instant they are now eased into full power over a short period. Many industrial processes use this system - known as 'Star Delta' switches.

Time will tell if this new process halts the rash of ICCU problems.

i have seen several posts already where the 2025 iccu is failing. and early, too. it also appears that one of the reasons might be because when the update is installed, the 12v is not hooked up to a charger. and i have only seen one supposed tech who said he would not service the car if it had lithium in it. but i have seen several posts from owners who do have lithium, and have not had a problem getting the car serviced. magnusun moss act may apply

 

A few points:

1) ICCU issue is not based on the type of 12V installed in the car.

2) ICCU issue becomes very inflated on this forum, but it’s always important to know how few vehicles actually suffered from this problem. It is INCREDIBLY impactful when it does, so I understand why it’s such a hot topic, but one should not assume it’s going to happen, as the odds are tremendously in your favour that it won’t.

3) “The Electric Viking”? “The Driven”? Who the f*** are these people, why the f*** should I listen to them on YouTube, and why the f*** should I care? Give me 30 minutes and I’ll create a website with a bashing YouTube video to support it as well. And while I’m at it, I’ll link to a MILLION other links and videos like he did, all of which didn’t link to the article he’s even talking about.

4) LOTS of Ioniq 5’s in the Greater Toronto and Niagara areas in Canada, I’ve yet to see one on the side of the road with hazards on.

Just saying….

 

3) “The Electric Viking”? “The Driven”? Who the f*** are these people, why the f*** should I listen to them on YouTube, and why the f*** should I care? Give me 30 minutes and I’ll create a website with a bashing YouTube video to support it as well. And while I’m at it, I’ll link to a MILLION other links and videos like he did, all of which didn’t link to the article he’s even talking about.

Electric Viking seems to specialize in 5-minute often-clickbaitish videos, several per day, which all too often just rehash other sources and provide little added value IMO. The 3.6 million breakdown incident dataset he refers to here as stated in TheDriven post, however, purportedly comes from a German auto club breakdown service which sounds similar to the US AAA. Maybe not a rigorously analyzed dataset, at least not as relayed in TheDriven article, but probably not something to be quickly dismissed out of hand either.

I think we should be dissatisfied with what is probably at least an unbiased report of very large sample size indicating such a great disparity in unreliability between I5 and other EVs. HKG has been building EVs for a good while now since early Ioniq/Kona/Soul, and although other OEMs have had their share of defects, I'm not sure many of them have been of such drastic impact on affected cars over such a long period as the ICCU issue. Ioniq5 was clearly built by wizards and wizards should know (and debug) better.

 

I would want to understand why there is such a high breakdown rate in one country vs. the rest of the world though. Same with the RAV4, which I also own and also never see broken down anywhere except for flat tires, and is generally considered to be extremely reliable.

I wouldn’t consider a 12V a breakdown, just like I wouldn’t consider running out of gas a breakdown either. A consumable was… consumed, whether appropriately or not

 

It would be good to have some data sets from other countries, though not sure why they might differ radically. As for breakdowns being due to "consumables" or not, it is of little conciliation while your wife waits on the freeway shoulder for assistance. Running out of juice would be equivalent to running out gas. Sudden unsignaled shutdown from an electrical failure is not, and occurs much more frequently in the Ioniq 5 (at least in Germany) than with other EVs. That's the point.

 

Sounds like you have learned to cope well with a weakness the manufacturer should have not allowed the car to reach production with. Most people, me included, don't need, are not used to or expect the extra hassle. JMO

 

We all have no choice but to cope with the successes and failures of any manufacturer of any product we all buy.

There seem to be two outcomes of this logic, one of them unfortunately is commonly American only (love you all, by the way): learn to handle the problems ourselves, or sue for everything. Most of us learn from shortcomings and find our own workarounds. That’s what you will find on forums

 

Follow-up point: in the grand scheme of things, the modern EV (keyword: MODERN) is still in its infancy. We all must accept a certain degree of risk that comes with new tech, EVs being no different. If anybody expects an EV to be perfect right now, you’re nuts! ICE cars are over 100 years old and we are still trying to perfect them. Manage your expectations

 

After following the link to the "Electric Viking" video I found what is all too prevalent -- click bait half truths and distortions. My sense is that this guy definitely has some sort of agenda, but he never makes it clear. And if I had to bet on it, I'd say this this is the kind of guy living in his parents' basement, and who hasn't ever had a real job or a date in his life. But hey, it's the internet, and we can say just about anything without ever having to back it up with facts.

 

Follow-up point: in the grand scheme of things, the modern EV (keyword: MODERN) is still in its infancy. We all must accept a certain degree of risk that comes with new tech, EVs being no different. If anybody expects an EV to be perfect right now, you’re nuts! ICE cars are over 100 years old and we are still trying to perfect them. Manage your expectations

Or just buy a Tesla. If that is unpalatable, even Ioniq 5's sister machines, EV6 GV60 have substantially better reliability records. Even with those two there a whole bunch of lemon law buy back cars out there, mostly due to HKGs inability to properly service and provide parts in a timely manner. Seems a terrible business model.

After following the link to the "Electric Viking" video I found what is all too prevalent -- click bait half truths and distortions. My sense is that this guy definitely has some sort of agenda, but he never makes it clear. And if I had to bet on it, I'd say this this is the kind of guy living in his parents' basement, and who hasn't ever had a real job or a date in his life. But hey, it's the internet, and we can say just about anything without ever having to back it up with facts.

What specifically are the half truths and distortions? He does not live in his parents basement. He has two young boys and a wife with terminal cancer, so yeah, he is not into dating. He is enough of an industry insider that he is invited to premiers and special events so has some access beyond that afforded Joe 6 Pack. I watch a lot of his videos. Though like many successful internet bloggers he is prone to sensationalism, he does deliver a useful amount of EV industry news and information. He does lean Chinese, but that is where most of the news is. I see no value in attacking the messenger because you may not like the message.

 

even Ioniq 5's sister machines, EV6 GV60 have substantially better reliability records

EV6 uses the exact same ICCU as the Ioniq 5 and I assume the Genesis does as well. So do all the eGMP cars.

The Viking guy is about like Scotty Kilmer, imho.

 

Ok I can see exactly what kind of stupid p***ing match this is going to turn into now. Points made, video is useless, opinions are going to start to turn into insults.

Mods should close this topic off now.

 

I do not do personal insults on the forums, so don't fear that from me. No good can come of that. I was just offering some counter to your , in my opinion, erroneous post. No offense intended. No reason for Mods to close a topic that seems to be of interest to many here.

 

click bait crap

next...

 

I don't think anyone would argue Hyundai doesn't have an issue with their 12V battery. They use a crappy 12V battery, it results in quite a few problems, especially for cars 2-4 years of age, specifically what the statistics used in the video are. Hyundai should fix it and use a better 12V battery. Rumor has it they use an AGM in some of their newer EVs, that's a good start. My dealer has specifically been quite proactive in wanting to know the 12V health, that's another good start. The video even mentions Tesla having the same 12V issue with their older cars, and have since fixed it since shifting to lithium 12V batteries. It's a simple fix, one has to wonder how good Hyundai's reliability numbers would be if they used a better 12V battery, it almost certainly would then be right up their with the rest of the industry at about 3/1000 vehicles. I'm fine with a little social media pressure to help get Hyundai to do the right thing.

Kind of BS that Hyundai is forcing me to remove a crappy 12V battery out of my brand new $70k I5N and replace it with an AGM, but that's presently where we are,

 

We’ve owned an Ioniq 5 AWD Ltd for 3 years and it has been fault free. Best vehicle owned over 55 years of driving. However, the Chinese are here with some very tempting quality and reasonably priced EVs.

 

Electric Viking is not a reliable source. He's a podcaster/Tesla investor that relies on clickbait. Consumer Reports puts the Kia EV6 on top for reliability while the Tesla Model S is 8th on the list - far below the Ioniq 5.

However, there is an article from Digital Trends that addresses Germany car breakdowns. See EVs top gas cars in German reliability report — but one weak spot won’t quit.

Comparing ICE to EV, EVs only accounted for 1.2% of total breakdowns. The Ioniq 5 problems (22 breakdowns per 1,000) was for its 2022 models. The 12-bolt battery usually gest the blame.

 

In our neck of the woods, I'd guess we have about 10% EVs. I''ve seen as many as 6 others several times while waiting at traffic lights.

I have never seen an EV sitting on the side of the road and I drive about 20k miles a year.

 

German click-bait? Is there any better way to start your day?

 

I have 58k miles on odometer, 2 years since bought car new. Just finished battery degradation testing for myself today. Here are some results:

Drive from 100% to 0%, covered 273 miles, 3.9 mile/kWh, consumed about 70 kWh with SOH reading 96.7% (battery state of health)

During the past 24 months I had 1 vehicle related incident: 12V battery failed at 18th month with 38k miles on odometer. I jumped it using my battery jumper and replaced by myself a AGM battery $130, because my dealer said it was out of warranty.

I owned about 9, 10 ICE cars in past 30 years and this one is best yet so far.