Hyundai IONIQ Forum banner
21 - 40 of 41 Posts

·
Registered
MY20 Kona Highlander electric
Joined
·
197 Posts
100% AC charging OK for battery longevity ? (As opposed to DC charging recommended 20-80% only)
DCFC is generally discouraged for regular charging, but okay every now & then. AC charging should be fine, although Renault has warning that Zoe should not be continually charged using the emergency (supplied 10 amp) charger. But don’t think that applies to Hyundais. Others may correct me.

Apologies if I have interpreted your post incorrectly.
 

·
Registered
2017 VW Passat Estate Diesel (omg!)
Joined
·
95 Posts
100% AC charging OK for battery longevity ? (As opposed to DC charging recommended 20-80% only)
Has nothing to do with the type of charging (AC or DC) but the battery charge itself. Not healthy for the battery to be at over 80% for extended periods of time or frequently.
Also speed of charging at certain charge % is of importance too. That's why fast chargers go a lot slower above ~75%
 

·
Registered
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Joined
·
17 Posts
Tesla has announced that they will be opening their Supercharger network to other brands. There was a similar announcement earlier for Norway, this recent one seems to apply to the USA. This raises some questions that will quickly dive deeply into the details of fast charging.

The 5 makes a big deal about charging from both 400V and 800V infrastructure. But what exactly does that mean? In the US there a large (and rapidly increasing) number of Electrify America (EA) chargers, many of which are rated at 350 kW and supposedly suitable for 800V charging. So far only the 5, the Porsche Taycan and Audi eTron(?) can fully utilize it

But we now know that the maximum charge rate for a 5 is 230 kW.

With higher system voltage, is the system current limited to save I2R losses, and costs of heavy cables and connectors? What is the system voltage and max current draw of a 5? Are there apps yet that can read the CANbus to answer these questions?

If a 400V charging station relies on higher current to reach its rated charge rate, must it limit current to charge a 5, lowering its charge rate?

Bottom line, how long would it take to charge a 5 at a Tesla 250kW Supercharger?

Also, has anyone heard of EA 350kw chargers not delivering anywhere near what the car should be able to draw? If so, is that because the charging station has been throttled back, or because the car's thermal management is the limiting factor?
 

·
Registered
2021 Chevy Bolt, reserved Ioniq 5
Joined
·
165 Posts
The Tesla 3 and Y are supposed to be able to charge at 250 kW. However, the highest speed I have seen on videos and from a friend that did a 3,000 mile trip is 140 kW. I have no idea is this is due to the car of the charger. Anyone have more information.

Below is a plot of the I5 charging which show a very good rate. I took the data from YouTube videos.
34647
 

·
Registered
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Joined
·
17 Posts
The Tesla 3 and Y are supposed to be able to charge at 250 kW. However, the highest speed I have seen on videos and from a friend that did a 3,000 mile trip is 140 kW. I have no idea is this is due to the car of the charger. Anyone have more information.

Below is a plot of the I5 charging which show a very good rate. I took the data from YouTube videos.
I've seen that data too, and it's quite impressive. But it only applies when charging at an "800V" charger, and we still don't know exactly what that means or doesn't mean. Hyundai has a patent on being able to charge from 400V or 800V equipment and they talk about it a lot, but no one has said what the charge rates are for different types of equipment.

Watts is Volts X Amps. The main reason for going to higher voltage is to keep the conductor size under control by using less amps for the same watts. This applies to onboard traction power as well as charging power. (No one wants to lug around a 1000-amp-capable charging cable, nor does the manufacturer want to pay for it.)

In over-simplified terms, 350 kW charging at 800V needs copper to support 440 amps. 250 kW charging at 400V has to pump 625 amps. If my car runs at a higher voltage to use lower current, will that 250 kW, 400V charger have to cut back on current to avoid overloading my car? If so, I can't get its rated output.

The problem here is that over-simplifying makes some assumptions that may not be true. I think the only way we'll know is for someone to try it. Has anyone tried charging a 5 at 250 kW "400V" equipment?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Has nothing to do with the type of charging (AC or DC) but the battery charge itself. Not healthy for the battery to be at over 80% for extended periods of time or frequently.
Also speed of charging at certain charge % is of importance too. That's why fast chargers go a lot slower above ~75%
Does this mean that using DCFC to charge, stopping at 80% for typical use, should be ok for those of us who don't have/might not be able to get access to charging at home? Theoretically the charging curve is programmed to preserve the battery.
 

·
Registered
2021 Chevy Bolt, reserved Ioniq 5
Joined
·
165 Posts
Does this mean that using DCFC to charge, stopping at 80% for typical use, should be ok for those of us who don't have/might not be able to get access to charging at home? Theoretically the charging curve is programmed to preserve the battery.
Yes
 

·
Registered
MY20 Kona Highlander electric
Joined
·
197 Posts
Does this mean that using DCFC to charge, stopping at 80% for typical use, should be ok for those of us who don't have/might not be able to get access to charging at home? Theoretically the charging curve is programmed to preserve the battery.
DCFC will degrade batteries at greater rate than either DC or AC, although battery management software will mitigate, but not eliminate, this to an extent. On the other hand, the difference is probably not huge over the life of the car. There’s some reasonable research on this: here’s one typical article.

And 5 tips from Hyundai to extend battery life here. A bit dated but still relevant.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
DCFC will degrade batteries at greater rate than either DC or AC, although battery management software will mitigate, but not eliminate, this to an extent. On the other hand, the difference is probably not huge over the life of the car. There’s some reasonable research on this: here’s one typical article.

And 5 tips from Hyundai to extend battery life here. A bit dated but still relevant.
So if I stay within normal ranges and don't drive like a lunatic, relying heavily on DCFC for a year or so shouldn't necessarily be particularly noticeable/problematic? (Really, this applies to any of us who want to get on the EV bandwagon but live in condos or apartments without access to home L2 charging)
 

·
Registered
MY20 Kona Highlander electric
Joined
·
197 Posts
So if I stay within normal ranges and don't drive like a lunatic, relying heavily on DCFC for a year or so shouldn't necessarily be particularly noticeable/problematic? (Really, this applies to any of us who want to get on the EV bandwagon but live in condos or apartments without access to home L2 charging)
Yeah, I think you’ve nailed it. Though better to avoid the 350kWh chargers. I’d stick with the 50kWh ones most of the time - even if it takes a bit longer. And for further mitigation Hyundai recommends charging frequently, so recharge well before you get down to 20%, & don’t charge above 80%.

Of course it’s up to you what you want to do. That’s just my 2 cents worth of advice.
 

·
Registered
2012 Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Joined
·
17 Posts
So if I stay within normal ranges and don't drive like a lunatic, relying heavily on DCFC for a year or so shouldn't necessarily be particularly noticeable/problematic? (Really, this applies to any of us who want to get on the EV bandwagon but live in condos or apartments without access to home L2 charging)
Can you charge at work? Is there an outlet near your parking space at home?

Most talk about charging is about high power, but with the mileage most people drive and the long range of modern EVs, the low-power charging cable that comes with the car and a standard outlet is all many people need. Look into the details of your mileage needs (normal and occasional use), and you just might find your charging needs are manageable. L1 charging is highly under-rated. Many people can get along just fine with it. Better to use DCFC on road trips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Can you charge at work? Is there an outlet near your parking space at home?

Most talk about charging is about high power, but with the mileage most people drive and the long range of modern EVs, the low-power charging cable that comes with the car and a standard outlet is all many people need. Look into the details of your mileage needs (normal and occasional use), and you just might find your charging needs are manageable. L1 charging is highly under-rated. Many people can get along just fine with it. Better to use DCFC on road trips.
There is EVSE at my office, though I don't think there are many, so access might be sporadic. I'll have to look into it. Unfortunately, there are no outlets near the parking lots at my complex. The condo management is willing to consider EV charging, but it's likely to be a complicated and expensive problem. Best not to expect anything on that front (though I'm doing some research in the hopes of presenting them an option that might be feasible in the near term short of re-configuring all the parking lots). There are a few random chargers in town (local library has a few, I'd assume no better than 7kw, probably 3.6), don't know how realistic it would be to rely on those (Maybe an hour every few days)

Unfortunately, this is a common problem in condo and apartment complexes. Those living in such places need to either give up on the idea of EV ownership, move, or make do with what is available nearby.
 

·
Registered
2017 VW Passat Estate Diesel (omg!)
Joined
·
95 Posts
How about charging when you go shopping? You're there for a while, and even with 11kW you get some extra juice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
How about charging when you go shopping? You're there for a while, and even with 11kW you get some extra juice.
Alas, there are no chargers at the grocery stores here. Not yet anyway. My best bets are
1) An electrify america station ~10 miles away
2) Two tesla superchargers ~5-6 miles away, if the network opens up (though I'd probably go further for EA for the free charging temporarily)
3) at least 8 chargepoint plugs and at least 3 normal L1 wall outlets in my office's garage. The question there would be whether or not I'd be able to get one of the spaces with any regularity.
4) A few probably slow L2 ports at the local library

The upside is that I don't really go very far during the work week, perhaps 30-50 miles total distance, and that's probably an exaggeration. Over the weekends I can often go ~100 miles round trip, so it would probably make sense to use DCFC on such days.
 

·
Registered
MY20 Kona Highlander electric
Joined
·
197 Posts
Alas, there are no chargers at the grocery stores here. Not yet anyway. My best bets are
1) An electrify america station ~10 miles away
2) Two tesla superchargers ~5-6 miles away, if the network opens up (though I'd probably go further for EA for the free charging temporarily)
3) at least 8 chargepoint plugs and at least 3 normal L1 wall outlets in my office's garage. The question there would be whether or not I'd be able to get one of the spaces with any regularity.
4) A few probably slow L2 ports at the local library

The upside is that I don't really go very far during the work week, perhaps 30-50 miles total distance, and that's probably an exaggeration. Over the weekends I can often go ~100 miles round trip, so it would probably make sense to use DCFC on such days.
Suggest you see if you can book a Chargepoint plug at work for a couple of hours or preferably full day once a week/fortnight?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
Suggest you see if you can book a Chargepoint plug at work for a couple of hours or preferably full day once a week/fortnight?
I'm looking into that, but apparently those chargers are first come first served and shared with the rest of the building. Probably can't be relied on, but it's something to consider (it's also possible that the garage won't be as crammed when people come back as it was "in the before times")
 

·
Registered
2017 VW Passat Estate Diesel (omg!)
Joined
·
95 Posts
So you're going about 150mi per week.
That's about 50% of range or about 35-40 kWh per week. At an L1 plug that takes you about 10 hours, an 11kWh L2 would take 4 hours (very long library visit), or about 45min at a 50kWh charger. Would avoid the regular use of higher charge rates if possible.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
208 Posts
So you're going about 150mi per week.
That's about 50% of range or about 35-40 kWh per week. At an L1 plug that takes you about 10 hours, an 11kWh L2 would take 4 hours (very long library visit), or about 45min at a 50kWh charger. Would avoid the regular use of higher charge rates if possible.
Unfortunately, I don't think I'll have reliable access to L2, at least for a while (though my complex is putting together a committee to investigate EV charging, so hopefully they can come up with something). Perhaps I should wait a while longer, though the same question basically applies to everyone in a condo/apartment like mine. :cautious:
 
21 - 40 of 41 Posts
Top