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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Curious what people are paying nowadays. As much detail as possible appreciated.

Model Year
State or City of Purchase
Date of Purchase
Trim
Out the door price minus taxes
Etc

Dealers are quoting me $32k at the lowest, and $34k normally. This seems high to me considering the Model 3 is ~$36k, the Bolt can be had as low as ~$25k, and other options with more range.

I realize the Ioniq still has the federal tax credit, but does it really factor into the high price so much? From what I've learned of the Ioniq, I think it would be a great fit for me, but I'm not impressed with the quoted prices all things considered.
 

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Ironically, the best thread for this stuff that I've seen is probably one that you commented on yourself around the time I bought the Ioniq: Actual price of Ioniq Electric 2020?

It's a little hard for me to compare prices because I got the limited model, not the base, so $32k seems crazy low to me. As far as M3 goes, saying $36k is not being fair to Hyundai. Go on Tesla's website, and the cheapest price I can find for a M3 is $37,990 (and that's not including tax/shipping!).

For me, objectively speaking, what it boils down to is if you don't mind the price, go Tesla. However, if you care about getting a good deal, then get Ioniq because of (1) lower MSRP and (2) all the incentives/rebates/credits you can qualify for depending on your residence state and income level. Roughly guessing, all the incentives I got brought the total price of my limited Ioniq from $40k down to $18k, but that's because I was in the best situation possible (live in CA and was just exiting school with no income to report). I've greatly enjoyed my Ioniq (wish it had 2 more inches of headroom cause I'm tall), but for the price I paid combined with the extremely low cost of electricity/maintenance, it's unbeatable. I don't regret it at all, and I'll wait a few years for Tesla to really upgrade their cars/batteries while I save some money in the near term before making the switch to Tesla. But I'm considering still holding onto my Ioniq just for another get-around-town car or something.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks kayan, it's been a while since I browsed this forum, apologies for the new thread.

As far as I know, the base Model 3 is still ~$36k + $1k shipping by call in.

Of course, $7,500 federal tax credit is huge, which is why I'm not buying a Tesla. The other options I'm considering is the base Leaf, RAV4 Prime, and Bolt. The Bolt is a good value still due to the negotiated price people are reporting, despite loss of the federal tax credit.
 

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(1) I never considered Leaf because of no BMS. I don't want a battery that loses so much range so quickly, especially with how hot my living area is. (2) Rav4 Prime is pretty cool for its performance and fuel economy as a small SUV, however, I'm very interested in the fully electric SUVs that will be coming out in the next 1-2 years. Plus the Rav4 is too small of a car for my family and I'd rather have fully electric for my personal commute. (3) Never considered Bolt because I hate the looks and I don't like Chevy.
 

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The cost of the EV is going to vary by country/state/province, etc. So really the only comparison relevant to you is what are people within a couple hundred miles of you paying. Also keep in mind that Hyundai really doesn't want to sell these cars. They are fleet emissions "compliance cars", especially in the US, demand is greater than supply so there is little reason for the dealer to go much below MSRP.

But when buying new, honestly for a sedan it's hard not to just say the Model 3 is a better buy in most situations.

I've test driven a lot of EVs and two of my friends own Tesla Model 3s. Starting with price before any incentives, if the price in your region is within 10-15% of a Tesla, honestly I don't know why anybody would ever buy any EV sedan over the Tesla. The Model 3 is simply way more car in nearly every category for only a little more money. Tesla is also 100% committed to electric vehicles. All the big manufacturers are being dragged into it kicking and screaming like a 2 year old who doesn't want to go to bed. Do you really want a product that the manufacturer really wishes didn't exist and doesn't really want to sell to you?

That said, rebates and incentives can make a big difference. When you start to get > 25% difference in price with a Tesla, cars like the Ioniq begin to look like great alternatives at lower cost.

Th ONLY reason I bought my Ioniq was I got a stupid crazy deal. In my region (Ontario, Canada) with federal rebates a Model 3 Standard range is $50K CAD. The Ioniq Electric Ultimate (top trim) is $42K CAD. If I was buying brand new, buying the Ioniq over the Model 3 to save $8K CAD IMHO is just stupid. In USD, the difference is about $5K USD.

In my situation, a Tim Hortons Roll-up-the-Rim winner won a 2020 Ioniq EV Ultimate, picked up, and drove it straight home to their Ford dealer and said, "What kinda truck can you give me for this thing here?" and traded it in. So I bought the car "used" for $10K off the new price from the Ford dealer, no PDI or admin fees 3 days after it was picked up from Hyundai by the contest winner. The only kilometres on it where was the winner driving it from Hyundai to Ford, plus my test drive.

For me, it was $32K CAD for a brand new Ioniq vs $50K for a Model 3. At that point, the Ioniq looked like a much better deal.
 

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Roughly guessing, all the incentives I got brought the total price of my limited Ioniq from $40k down to $18k, but that's because I was in the best situation possible (live in CA and was just exiting school with no income to report).
Not sure I'm getting this. If you have no income, you cannot apply the federal rebate to your tax return.
 

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(1) I never considered Leaf because of no BMS. I don't want a battery that loses so much range so quickly, especially with how hot my living area is. (2) Rav4 Prime is pretty cool for its performance and fuel economy as a small SUV, however, I'm very interested in the fully electric SUVs that will be coming out in the next 1-2 years. Plus the Rav4 is too small of a car for my family and I'd rather have fully electric for my personal commute. (3) Never considered Bolt because I hate the looks and I don't like Chevy.
It is good to use the correct terms, BMS is battery management system that basically keeps the voltage and currents under control during charging and disharging. Cooling can be active or passive, Leaf has passive air cooling that works by heat conduction. Air cooling can also be active like the classic ioniq (blowing air through the batterypack) or liquid cooling like the facelift ioniq that has liquid channels running through the pack.
 

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I'm looking at the Tesla website and ignoring the "include potential savings" button because that's really a red herring

Starts at $38k, but that's for the "Partial Premium interior"
Dual motor Long Range with "Premium Interior" is $47k and
Dual motor Performance with "Premium Interior" is $55k and

How do those levels correlate to Ioniq trim levels?

Full self driving is another $8k, but as it's not certified yet ... what's the point? Then again, what's the point of getting a Tesla if you DON'T get self driving?


Meanwhile on the Hyundai site:

Ioniq SE comes in at $33k and
Ioniq Limited is $38.6k


So I see the point the op is making, and it has some validity. However the $7,500 tax credit makes a significant difference when comparing the two


Actually, given that the tax credit is per manufacturer and not per model, I'm surprised (given some of the things he DOES do) that Elon didn't start an entirely different company for each model. Perhaps not in the spirit of the law, but then again Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura etc. Maybe he didn't expect the tax credit to last into 2020



One other thing ... I think those Tesla Model 3 prices are a lot lower than the last time I looked. I remember thinking the $35,000 was really a ~ $50,000 vehicle, once you configured it, but maybe now that their tax credit has expired, they reduced the prices to compensate. Am I correct with that?
 

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Not sure I'm getting this. If you have no income, you cannot apply the federal rebate to your tax return.
Coming out of school, I had little income, so I was qualified under those circumstances. Now, I have a full-time job and will pay enough taxes for the rest of this year. It's simple.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Rav4 Prime is pretty cool for its performance and fuel economy as a small SUV, however, I'm very interested in the fully electric SUVs that will be coming out in the next 1-2 years. Plus the Rav4 is too small of a car for my family and I'd rather have fully electric for my personal commute. (3) Never considered Bolt because I hate the looks and I don't like Chevy.
I'm concerned about the small size of the RAV4 also. I've got a Mazda CX-5 company car at the moment, and it's barely big enough for camping with my family of 3. I assume the RAV4 is similarly sized. I probably should get a Pacifica plug-in LOL.

I don't care for the Bolt looks either, but at least it doesn't look like the gen I Leaf, or worse, the iMiEV. Don't care so much how it looks though, so long as it functions well. I do appreciate that Tesla made aerodynamically efficient vehicles that look nice.

I'm looking at the Tesla website and ignoring the "include potential savings" button because that's really a red herring

Starts at $38k, but that's for the "Partial Premium interior"
Dual motor Long Range with "Premium Interior" is $47k and
Dual motor Performance with "Premium Interior" is $55k and

How do those levels correlate to Ioniq trim levels?

Full self driving is another $8k, but as it's not certified yet ... what's the point? Then again, what's the point of getting a Tesla if you DON'T get self driving?


Meanwhile on the Hyundai site:

Ioniq SE comes in at $33k and
Ioniq Limited is $38.6k


So I see the point the op is making, and it has some validity. However the $7,500 tax credit makes a significant difference when comparing the two


Actually, given that the tax credit is per manufacturer and not per model, I'm surprised (given some of the things he DOES do) that Elon didn't start an entirely different company for each model. Perhaps not in the spirit of the law, but then again Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura etc. Maybe he didn't expect the tax credit to last into 2020



One other thing ... I think those Tesla Model 3 prices are a lot lower than the last time I looked. I remember thinking the $35,000 was really a ~ $50,000 vehicle, once you configured it, but maybe now that their tax credit has expired, they reduced the prices to compensate. Am I correct with that?
As I understand, there are 3 levels of autopilot. Full Self Drive doesn't exist yet (crazy people pay for something that doesn't exist), Enhanced Autopilot, and Autopilot. I'm not up on the differences between the 2 versions.

There never should have been a tax credit, but that aside, it should have been structured without a limit per manufacturer, but instead a single limit on all EVs sold. That way it doesn't harm those manufacturers first out of the gate to offer EVs and reward the laggards. As it is, the credit has likely slowed EV progress.
 

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As I understand, there are 3 levels of autopilot. Full Self Drive doesn't exist yet (crazy people pay for something that doesn't exist), Enhanced Autopilot, and Autopilot. I'm not up on the differences between the 2 versions.
There are features that are available only with "full self driving package" so it isn't all for nothing. Mostly it could be seen as an asset that could rise in value when more and more features become available. 8000 dollars is still a lot of money for most people so I'm with you on that one.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
There are features that are available only with "full self driving package" so it isn't all for nothing. Mostly it could be seen as an asset that could rise in value when more and more features become available. 8000 dollars is still a lot of money for most people so I'm with you on that one.
The thing is, technology gets cheaper over time, not more expensive. Buying FSD now to lock in a low price is silly, because it will be way cheaper in the future. I didn't know the FSD package included some features now.
 

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I think Musk has been promising FSD "this year" or "next year" for at least three years. No one thinks it is possible outside of small bubbles, like a small city or a retirement community like the Villages in Florida where it is already running (at very slow speeds).
 

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I think Musk has been promising FSD "this year" or "next year" for at least three years. No one thinks it is possible outside of small bubbles, like a small city or a retirement community like the Villages in Florida where it is already running (at very slow speeds).
To be fair Tesla is making steady progress every year unlike the fusion reactors that are ready +50 years from any given date.
 

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Steady slow progress is a long way from FSD. Not sure why progress in the field (by all) makes hyperbole fair.
 

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Steady slow progress is a long way from FSD. Not sure why progress in the field (by all) makes hyperbole fair.
If you have been in the loop, the next step in FSD suite is automatic driving in city streets including intersections. They have traffic light and sign recognition. I think we are very close to practical (yet limited) autonomy. The thing is that with automatic city driving a tesla can start from your home and navigate to your work place and even park by dropping you of at the main entrance, meanwhile the car will park itself to a free parking space.
 

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Already being done in bubbles (known streets) at slow speeds.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Tesla is behind most of the major autonomous driving companies out there.

I can't see it becoming feasible for at least a decade. How, for instance, does Tesla handle being behind a large truck where you can't see the traffic light? The human solution is to lag back until you can see the light, and then catch back up and cross through the intersection so you don't hold everyone else back too much.

All that said, I'd be fine if all that FSD was capable of safely handling was the freeway. Would be awesome to sleep while making progress towards your destination. Flying has become a horrible experience, so FSD could make driving a compelling option for long trips.
 

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Although leasing isn't for everyone, take a look at the Ioniq EV deals, you'll find them considerably cheaper than the Model 3.

In the UK they are excellent, and I believe in the US they are even better.
 

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30k out the door with everything (paid cash) in California Plug in 2019 base model with 10 year warranty add on
 
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