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Discussion Starter #1

Hello,
I submitted a technical inquiry to Hyundai Australia, after discussing the issue with the local Hyundai service centre. I received only very generic, not very helpful responses so I am posting the query on the forum - perhaps it has already been raised here and someone can point me in the right direction.
Thanks, Hugh
Hello Hyundai,
I am a recent owner of an IONIQ Plug In Hybrid and I really like just about everything the car offers.
Some of my short trips around home are done with zero petrol consumption - which is in large part why I bought the vehicle, while on 2 trips to the ski fields from Sydney the car has averaged about 4 km/100km and very comfortable, too.
However, there is an issue which I hope the technical people can help me with because the guys at the Hyundai Service Centre had no answers.
On a number of short trips from home, maybe only a few kilometres the car insists on using the petrol engine in the first kilometre or so – even when the traction battery is well charged.
It is just quiet suburban driving – no hard acceleration, no hills - so there appears to be no need for the petrol engine.
The fuel economy gauge often shows a figure of 20L/100km in the first kilometre of driving. This seems really odd when the car is probably travelling at no more than 30km/hr.
Can you explain why the fuel economy figure is so poor (high) in the first kilometre of travel?
While the petrol engine usually turns off early in the trip, it means a short trip (less than 10km) can return a poor fuel economy figure of more than 8 L/100km – when it should be 0L /100km.
Examples from the car’s driving history:
• 3k trip showing 9.9 L/100km
• 2 km trip showing 6.6 L/100km
• 7 km trip showing 5.8 L/100km
• 2km trip showing 11.3 L/100km
• 1 km trip showing 15.2 L/100km

This is a big problem for me because about 50% of my driving is short suburban trips which the car should be able to do as a true EV (zero emissions).
Added to my regional driving (with car driving as a true Hybrid) I should be able to average about 2L/100 km.
On other occasions, the petrol motor is not used and at the end of my short trip the fuel economy shows 0L/100km – as it should.
This is how the car is advertised by Hyundai – and in large part why I bought the car.
So, can you please explain why the petrol engine turns on when it appears to be unnecessary – and how do I prevent it occurring.
So far, I think it may have something to do with not having any accessories running on starting – but this does not always work.
Maybe also related to charging the 12 volt battery - but why such high fuel consumption?
 

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If the Ioniq is similar to the Prius, it turns the engine on if cabin heat is needed. The engine will remain on until it comes up to minimum temp. Try turning your HVAC off when you park the car, and see if the engine comes on the next time you start.

Fuel consumption is always high during engine warm up. RPM runs higher than normal and the fuel runs rich. Short trips are the worst for any gasoline/diesel engine.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, problem can occur when AC OFF on start. The issue did seem worse in winter - but cold Sydney morning is +8C!. Still occurs now (less maybe) , with morning temps of +15C and above.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yep!, Bugs me tho' that I can not control this aspect of car's operation - tell it, that if batteries (traction and 12v) charged, do not turn on the petrol motor.
 

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2017 PHEV UK driver here. What you are describing is normal, if you have the PHEV cabin temp set to normal 20'C. The car will run on EV but will use the engine to heat the car very quickly. Try looking at the instantaneous mgp meter on the right of the dash... 25mpg when cold?
Your reported mpg figures are not good. 4.5l to 100km is about 60mpg and you get no where near that. Perhaps you have a fault that is not flashing on the dash.

There are 3 things that could affect the mpg...
Car incorrect settings - use suggestions below...
a fault - not showing as mil errors...
the drivers right foot - try driving like Miss Daisy for a week...

I use around 1 gallon/4.5 litres a month in summer and 2gallons/9 litres in winter to do 600 miles per month. It is hard to calculate accurate mpg figures with the PHEV.

What is the car suggesting your driving style is eco 90% 5% normal 5% aggressive?

I have switched to HEV while the ICE heats the car as the ICE will also drive the wheels for 0.5 to 1 mile and will maybe be more efficient. This is good, especially if I am driving more than the 37 mile EV range. May as well use fuel to drive the car as well as heat it.

For short journeys try the following:-
Set your cabin temp to 16'C. Fan speed to 1. Totally off works too.
Set Driver Only button to ON.
Keep your right foot in the middle of the eco range(left hand side of my dash) No sports mode!
Switch on Steering Wheel and seat heater if your coat is not keeping you warm enough.
Please report back...

Check that your tyre pressures are 36 (2.5) when cold, the TPMS is available after 500 meters... And 39-40 when you have driven 10 miles.

Avoid driving in Sport mode and take your time... At least to see if your driving technique is affecting your mileage.

FYI - When you charge the PHEV or the engine is ON the 12V Aux battery is being charged too. Try to remove the cable immediately after the traction battery is full. If you don't the car keeps the cable lock solenoid RUNNING, which maybe relying on the 12V battery.

When you start the car are you getting the Battery Saver+ message "12V Aux battery charged while parked". The car has charged the 12V Aux from the traction battery. Another reason the car may try to tun the engine. Mine ran today as I had the car switched on but was running the tyre air pump. (I may have the temp set higher that 16 too).

Good luck I seldom get temperatures lower than 3'C as I am near the UK coast.
 
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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the reply - some responses:
Driving style usually 90+% "Eco", the rest "Normal". I am a conservative driver!!
Over 6,000 km now, with 4 long (1,000 km) trips in that and averaging 3.2L/100km.(~70 mpg)
It is only very short urban trips when the economy blows out.
But sometimes I can get zero petrol use over 50km.(which is about the EV range)
Petrol engine can run with nothing on: No fan, No AC, no cabin heating
I have yet to see the "Battery Saver+ message "12V Aux battery charged while parked", message.
I am thinking the early petrol engine running maybe due to the 12v battery charging - but I do not know!
 

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The 12v battery should be charged from the traction battery when the car is on. A low 12v battery should not be reason for the petrol engine to turn on (though I could be wrong, I don't own an Ioniq).

As far as petrol engine cars are concerned, slow acceleration isn't more efficient than fast acceleration as long as that fast acceleration isn't causing you to then hit the brakes. It takes the same amount of energy to slowly move a vehicle up to a given speed as it does to quickly get it up to speed, and petrol engines operate most efficiently at about 75% of maximum torque.

EDIT: I just converted your L per 100 km to MPG so I can understand it. Those figures look perfectly normal for short trips. What's up with 1-3 km trips anyhow? Those are walking distances, though you can't carry much.
 

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Great reply, Hugh... Eco warrior at wheel so... Settings (operator error) or faulty car it is then! ;)

ICE will/should only run if heating called for... ( Unless in HEV b4 soeone asks.)
Is your Driver only button pressed. This should reduce heat call by 50%.

ICE does not charge the 12V Aux battery. There is no alternator.
The traction battery does charge it via dc to dc converter when the car is ON, or phev charging or battery saver+ happens when parked.
Perhaps to be sure... remove all charging devices for next short journey

Your phev is 2020... Does it have a heater for the traction battery that is making the ice kick in?... Unlikely!

My car ran the heater as temp set to 20, in msg above while I was pumping the tyre... Sorry.. A bit of mis info I corrected above as I said it.

ReCheck heater levels. 16'c or less in AUTO mode. I can make my ice kick in by turning the temp up to 18+ and off by turning it down to 16'C!! Try that!!!

Aircon actually uses power from traction battery to cool you.
Check tyres. *** probably OK but here in uk it is getting cold and tyres need more air.
Does dipstick smell of fuel... Oil level high?

DISPLAY ALL MPG DISPLAYS Inc centre console whilst driving... Instantaneous what are you getting when ice kicks in... It is scary low when cold? Approx 15-25 when cold Max 50
Keep track of engine temp.
 

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If you must drive 1.5 km (not sure I've ever done that in 50 years of driving but perhaps I might with an EV), yes, HVAC off will ensure EV only on such short trips. One HVAC related issue is the ADS system (auto defog system). This can engage the AC or heat without your input. You can turn it off by holding the front defrost button until a dialog appears. Your setting will stay sticky.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks BlueNev - I now know more about how the 12 v battery gets charged.
And Yes - check the "off" button!
I wonder if someone transporting an invalid friend to the shops might drive? Just a thought.
H
 

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The fuel economy gauge often shows a figure of 20L/100km in the first kilometre of driving. This seems really odd when the car is probably travelling at no more than 30km/hr

This is normal. With everything cold the engine uses more fuel. Back in the days it was called a choke, now days it's done by the ECU. Still same principle or even "worse" as you have emissions to think of too. This may end up in using MORE fuel and a retarded ignition to actively waste energy to heat up the catalytic converter faster.

Also an engine is made of loads of moving parts where all are helt in place with some kind of bearing. Before all things moving are up to temp they are out of spec, that combined with a thicker oil makes the engine need more fuel to spin as free as it should.

Funny thing this start energy consumption is also found in the EV. Today when it's getting a little colder I average 130Wh/km(208Wh/mile) going home ~50km(30miles). The first 3km(2miles) the consumption is about 200Wh/km(320Wh/mile). After 10miles it's like 160Wh/km(250Wh/mile)..... Even the EV needs it's gearbox oil to heat up a little, breaks to rinse from surface corrosion etc etc... All small things add up!


This is the biggest reson I choose to go all in EV, that all those trips I could almost do on electrics would need the petrol engine to start and burn almost as much fuel as if going the full trip (with an hot engine).... so EV for me - no issues with fuel consumption at all Ha!
 

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FWIW here's absolutely no need for a Phev to fire up the ICE, if it has a) sufficient electricity in the HV battery, b) you're not exceding the power available from the Electric motor (usually a fair bit less than the ICE has, so you have to be gentle), c) the temperature isn't so cold that engine warmth is required to heat the HV battery to safe working temperature.

Frankly, every Phev I've seen has been generally poor in some of these respects, partly because they're Phevs and not Rexes. Chevvy Volt, aka Ampera got it right. It's an EV with ICE added-on, not an ICE with electrics added (the wrong way to do it, full stop). Providing I have >5 miles electric range, I can drive at full power in cold weather without the ICE starting up. Ice only ever powers up unexpectedly a few times in cold weather when it's sub-zero outside, and it wants the HV battery warmer. The other time it insists on petrol is if you haven't used any petrol at all for several months, when it like to make sure the ICE still works! It then gives you an option not to start the ICE at that particular moment (maybe you don't want to wake the neighbours?), but it will insist pretty soon, so you've had the warning & may as well do a couple of petrol miles where you prefer to, just to shut it up.

I watched early reviews of the Ioniq Phev when it first came out, thinking it might be a newer & better replacement for my Ampera. It wasn't, it's a far poorer car, and even today no-one's got close to it as a superb transitional petrol/electric car. Shame Europe & UK didn't get the Volt Mk2. I think the tooling etc got shipped out to China...

I've now bought an Ioniq 38 as my Ampera replacement, it just manages to have the range I need, at last.
 

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Don't know about the 2020, but on my 2019 PHEV, the ICE won't turn on if HVAC is kept at Lo or Off, and ADS is off (as per @yticolev above). A/C on or off makes no difference, but is generally needed for defogging. Short, full defogging bursts generally do, while cowering in hat and gloves.
 

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Hello,
I submitted a technical inquiry to Hyundai Australia, after discussing the issue with the local Hyundai service centre. I received only very generic, not very helpful responses so I am posting the query on the forum - perhaps it has already been raised here and someone can point me in the right direction.
Thanks, Hugh
Hello Hyundai,
I am a recent owner of an IONIQ Plug In Hybrid and I really like just about everything the car offers.
Some of my short trips around home are done with zero petrol consumption - which is in large part why I bought the vehicle, while on 2 trips to the ski fields from Sydney the car has averaged about 4 km/100km and very comfortable, too.
However, there is an issue which I hope the technical people can help me with because the guys at the Hyundai Service Centre had no answers.
On a number of short trips from home, maybe only a few kilometres the car insists on using the petrol engine in the first kilometre or so – even when the traction battery is well charged.
It is just quiet suburban driving – no hard acceleration, no hills - so there appears to be no need for the petrol engine.
The fuel economy gauge often shows a figure of 20L/100km in the first kilometre of driving. This seems really odd when the car is probably travelling at no more than 30km/hr.
Can you explain why the fuel economy figure is so poor (high) in the first kilometre of travel?
While the petrol engine usually turns off early in the trip, it means a short trip (less than 10km) can return a poor fuel economy figure of more than 8 L/100km – when it should be 0L /100km.
Examples from the car’s driving history:
• 3k trip showing 9.9 L/100km
• 2 km trip showing 6.6 L/100km
• 7 km trip showing 5.8 L/100km
• 2km trip showing 11.3 L/100km
• 1 km trip showing 15.2 L/100km

This is a big problem for me because about 50% of my driving is short suburban trips which the car should be able to do as a true EV (zero emissions).
Added to my regional driving (with car driving as a true Hybrid) I should be able to average about 2L/100 km.
On other occasions, the petrol motor is not used and at the end of my short trip the fuel economy shows 0L/100km – as it should.
This is how the car is advertised by Hyundai – and in large part why I bought the car.
So, can you please explain why the petrol engine turns on when it appears to be unnecessary – and how do I prevent it occurring.
So far, I think it may have something to do with not having any accessories running on starting – but this does not always work.
Maybe also related to charging the 12 volt battery - but why such high fuel consumption?
Hugh I wanted to give you an overview of the fuel efficiency on my PHEV since august of 2019....
and some suggestions:
Your fuel efficiency is entirely normal in my view. My PHEV has delivered 2.8l/100km ( or 88 MPG) in the 18 months of ownership. Like you ,I have short drives (80% @ 60Km or less) My winter and late fall fuel eff. is closer to 3.5l/100km because of the heating of the interior, driving with winter tires, and sport mode which i use strategically. That's pretty damn good and you should be encouraged that your PHEV can deliver this kind of industry leading mileage. This is a beautifully designed powertrain and try enjoy driving it. Heat the car when you have to, enjoy sport mode to access the motorway and have fun. Don't overthink it. In your warmer Aussie climate than Canada, you will attain closer to 2.2L/100km blended over the entire year. That's great!!
 

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Agreed with phev drivers RonM and snigglen...

I can turn the ICE off by turning the temp to 16'C or HVAC off. If I turn it back to 17.0 the ICE comes ON again... Try a quick check, if you have the PHEV?

Defo need the auto demist off too... Is that holding the Front Screen button down for a few seconds to switch it off?

The ioniq PHEV gets around the need for HVAC for heating on short EV journeys by supplying the car with steering wheel and cloth seats with heaters.

Glad the ioniq 38 has the range for you. 👍Is that because they have stopped making these...
Ampera... "Starting with the 16 kWh lithium-ion battery fully charged – which takes around 4hrs from a domestic plug – we managed 47 miles before the 1.4-litre petrol engine/generator kicked in." - autocar review. Let's take reviews with a pinch of salt.
It was a vectra, that I used to drive lots, with an electric motor and a range extender like a Bwm I3. A very early EV with range extender(rex) built by , as built by 3 wise men on Top Gear not really a good comparison for any PHEV. My Mazda RX-8 gets more out of a tank full than an ampera😅.

To be truly fair, until they make an EV car with batteries in the structure... They will always be seen as a car with an electric motor mainly where the ICE used to be and a battery under your feet, passengers or boot. Even tesla haven't managed that yet.

Saw a video with an electric vehicle driver with a empty petrol can trying to stop other drivers and asking to take him/her to a fuel station to get fuel for his range extender. Very Funny.

Back to PHEV... I get 37 miles EV miles on pure sunshine from my 9kWh battery charged on Solar. Ironically, I force HEV mode once a month to fully heat the ice engine. 😂
Drive it like you stole it... Try sports mode! ;)
 
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