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What worries me about electric vehicles is the high cost of a replacement battery. I recognise the car has a warranty but in the event that the battery fails at the end of the warranty, you're looking at a $10,000 cost.

We don't have a lot of money but have the ability to buy this vehicle with rebates. I'm just really worried about the high cost of the battery because I'm sure we would like to keep the car for more than 10 years
I share your concern however I think the price you've quoted is far too low!! I live in Vancouver and was about to buy a KIA Niro EV. I asked the service department about the cost of the 64KW battery outside of warranty and even the service fellow was shocked. The battery is 47,000 and the labour to install it is 3,500 for a total of 50,500 plus tax!!! (Canadian dollars) We both agreed that no one would spend that much to replace the battery as a new car would cost the same and the battery replacement. I didn't buy the car.
People tell me the cost of the battery will come down over time. The LEAF's 24KW battery replacement was initially $7500. That was raised to $13000 as of 3 years ago. I haven't checked lately but it went up not down. I think what was happening was that people would replace the battery for 7500 and not buy a new car. To discourage that, they increased the cost of the battery. Just my thoughts.
Call the KIA dealers in Vancouver and shock yourself on the cost of a new battery!.
 

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I share your concern however I think the price you've quoted is far too low!! I live in Vancouver and was about to buy a KIA Niro EV. I asked the service department about the cost of the 64KW battery outside of warranty and even the service fellow was shocked. The battery is 47,000 and the labour to install it is 3,500 for a total of 50,500 plus tax!!! (Canadian dollars) We both agreed that no one would spend that much to replace the battery as a new car would cost the same and the battery replacement. I didn't buy the car.
People tell me the cost of the battery will come down over time. The LEAF's 24KW battery replacement was initially $7500. That was raised to $13000 as of 3 years ago. I haven't checked lately but it went up not down. I think what was happening was that people would replace the battery for 7500 and not buy a new car. To discourage that, they increased the cost of the battery. Just my thoughts.
Call the KIA dealers in Vancouver and shock yourself on the cost of a new battery!.
I don't think you have too much to worry about. What you've quoted above is an extreme worse case scenario. EV batteries have been out for some time now (almost a decade and more for some manufacturers). They have proven to be reliable. The long warranty is to put people at ease and also to help identify any defective battery cells. Notice that I said "cells" rather than "battery". As IoniqYVR says, normally battery cells are replaced to help balance the battery pack as a whole. When 1 or more cells are not working appropriately, it affects the entire pack as a whole. However, it may take time, even years to find that out to the normal person. As battery packs are still relatively new, you are hearing about batteries being replaced under warranty and yes, they are treated as a whole and are costly. As more and more EVs are on the road, there will be more and more qualified technicians to service and repair/replace cells rather than the whole battery.
Over the course of the warranty (about 8-10 years) the car should be capable of holding >80% of its original charge. Most manufactures chose 80% as their worst case number. Many of the 5-6 year old EVs out there are still well above 93%. If you reach 79% before the 8 year warranty (rare case if treating the car/battery properly) then the warranty will address that.
Even if you come close, a 15 year old EV (assuming the body and everything else holds up) should still give you above 70% the original range. So, what that means is that the car still works, you just maybe need to charge it a little more often and get less range, but that's fine for city driving.
If you do a lot of highway miles, then the car will definitely rack up those numbers easily and likely will just give you less range. But look at ICE cars with 300+ k's on them. They are worth nothing, because nobody wants a super high mileage ICE engine, but they still run (maybe not as quiet and efficiently as before). With an EV, assuming the car itself is still in good working order, the battery will power it and you just lose range (like efficiency). I know a few and have read of many more EV owners that have racked up over 100k in 1 -2 years. That's because they don't rely on gas and drive everywhere, and take the EV over the ICE to do everything. Their batteries are still near new.
Honestly, I don't think you have much to worry about. There are the rare cases with owners needing to shell out $$$ to fix their rides, but that happens on all makes, models and type of cars.
The most important thing to remember is to treat the battery with care. Leave the battery between 20-80% for the majority of its life (don't let it sit >80 or <20 for too long) and charge it to 100% from time to time to balance all the cells. The onboard computer and BMS systems will do the rest to ensure battery life. Also, living in the YVR Lower Mainland, our temps are not extreme, so our batteries should hold up well.
 

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Had mine replaced under warranty and they replace the whole hybrid battery system.
Hybrid batteries are much much smaller and your's was done under warranty, so they would change the whole thing rather than try to find the defective cell and open it up and replace just that one. But aside from that, do you find your car reliable and think it will last well over 10 years?
 

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Hybrid batteries are much much smaller and your's was done under warranty, so they would change the whole thing rather than try to find the defective cell and open it up and replace just that one. But aside from that, do you find your car reliable and think it will last well over 10 years?
I put on alot of mileage, will probably only last another couple years. Not super impressed, if mine was a 2020 it would have had no warranty since I was at 133k
 

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Let's see what will be the answer to this debate after 2-3 years. I think there will be a tectonic shift towards servicing / repairing things instead of replacing them in the near future. It's just not viable anymore to dump a whole car just because of the battery pack is (or part of the battery pack) is underperforming, in the current situation (energy and resource scarcity, economic wars, inflation over 10 percent etc.) The "right to repair" must be extended over electric cars, too. If I would be an EU bureucrat in Brussels, I would immediately start a legislation to force automakers to make the communication between the BMS and the battery an open standard, and to ease to repairability of the batteries.
 

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I have a 2017 Ioniq (28kwh battery) that has 115,000km on it. Driving around Vancouver Canada.
I just recently calculated the battery health myself.
When the car was new, the best I ever saw the guessometer was 264km in the summer time.

Here's the state of my battery.
When the car was a few months old:
Example: The trip meter shows an average of 40kph on one charge. 8.4km / kwh is how I'm most often to drive the car. I was able to get ~200km on a charge with 15% battery left. That tells me I could have gone ~230km.
NOW, 5 years later, I'm getting the same 8.4km / kwh. Just the other day I drove it down to 15% charge, and had gone ~180km. That makes for 210km if I'd driven it down to 0%.

Some math.
230 / 210 is ~ 91%
A 28kwh battery with 91% capacity is 25.5kwh.
My battery is now a 25kwh battery.

I'll take it. Since I've got until 160,000 kms before the battery is out of warranty, I'll be selling the car at 150,000km. Dunno how much I'll get for it, but all in all, I've been EXTREMELY happy with it's longevity.
My wife and I drive from Vancouver to Kelowna 2 - 3 times per year, and in the summer we head north on long ish trips.
Fast charging is CHEAP in Canada, so we do it all the time.
Two months ago, we went to Kelowna and forgot to bring our 120v charger with us. We fast charged every day for 5 days straight. Plus the drive to and from makes for an additional 6.
It's safe to say that I abuse my battery. ...yet here we are 5 years in and still at 91%. I feel like it doesn't owe me anything given what I've been told about traction batteries and their longevity vs cost. I'm going to ditch the car before it's out of warranty anyways!
I'm going to say that my battery gets 5 out of 5 stars! Given it's abuse, it's doing great!
I hesitate to say this for fear that it might start a rumble, but Hyundai has made a GREAT EV in the 2017 ioniq. Their service departments are a bit meh, but that's usually due to the person behind the counter more than their policies.
-Graham
 
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Graham, nice post, but I don't think that you can calculate battery degradation that simply. Range fluctuates far to much depending on initial battery state (heat soaked, cold soaked), weather (wind rain), temp, tyre pressure, travel speed, road surface, etc, etc. I bet you could do your test twice in the same day and get differences of 5% or more.

There are other threads on the forum that discuss this in more detail. I just use EVNotify and an OBDII device to poll the SoH parameter output by the BMS. At 139,000 km it still reports SoH = 100%. However, we are also unsure exactly how the BMS determines SoH and that reading is almost always 100% on every IONIQ BEV and since we know that batteries start to degrade as soon as they are produced, it's impossible that the real SoH is still 100%. But I think it means, the battery will still be able to provide enough energy to achieve the nominal range of the vehicle. I have noticed that my bottom buffer has reduced over time, perhaps to compensate for degradation. I track all my charges and trips and to date, can't see any noticeable range loss, which is fantastic - my data shows seasonal variations in max range well (see attached / below).

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line
 
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IMHO the SoH parameter read via OBD port is completely useless. While I agree with your arguments regarding the range depending on too many parameters, it still seems to be the best method for users.
 

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What worries me about electric vehicles is the high cost of a replacement battery. I recognise the car has a warranty but in the event that the battery fails at the end of the warranty, you're looking at a $10,000 cost.

We don't have a lot of money but have the ability to buy this vehicle with rebates. I'm just really worried about the high cost of the battery because I'm sure we would like to keep the car for more than 10 years
I won't over worry about it, after 3 yrs and almost 80,000km, the 28kWh battery has yet to show any degradation, i. e. the 5% buffer hasn't been used up yet. Assuming the yearly degradation is about 5%/3yr = 1.7% p.a., on a linear basis after 10 yrs, the battery would still have about 83% of its original capacity. With air-con running and gentle driving, the current range is about 240km, 83% would be about 199km range. Assuming one regularly charges to 80% in order to prolong the useable life of the battery, that still give approx. 160km of effective range on a daily basis. My return trip from home to office is about 60km two way combined. A post degraded 160km range would be just fine for me.

I intend to keep this ultra efficient car for a very long time.

Rikki
 

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I just came back from the 75000 km service. The SoH of the battery is 100% according to the official diagnostics. This might be due to the fact that I drive it very gently: no racing from green lights, no fast charging (1-2 times a year, only when absolutely needed).
 

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Interesting. So, they put the "100%" value into the official report, but this has nothing to do with the anticipated range?
I think that the "100%" means that the battery can still provide 100% of it nominal energy rating from when it was new. So no loss in range. Remember, Hyundai sells cars based on energy available to the user, not the actual battery capacity. For the 28kWh IONIQ, the actual battery is 30.5kWh when new, capped at 28kWh to the user, with a top and bottom buffer. That way even if there is degradation, the buffers can be depleted and the user still manages to get the full range they enjoyed when the car was new. Other manufactures tell you the battery is 74kWh but only 65kWh is available to the user. Still other don't have any buffers and you start loosing range from the day the car was produced. Which way is correct? Not sure. My IONIQ could have had nearly 10% more range if all the capacity was available when it was new. But it would certainly have reduced due to degradation by now.
 

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What worries me about electric vehicles is the high cost of a replacement battery. I recognise the car has a warranty but in the event that the battery fails at the end of the warranty, you're looking at a $10,000 cost.

We don't have a lot of money but have the ability to buy this vehicle with rebates. I'm just really worried about the high cost of the battery because I'm sure we would like to keep the car for more than 10 years
You know those maniacs that call 10 times a day to extend your warranty well in 10 years they will be calling selling extended battery warranty's also in 10 years battery's and not going to be $10,000
 
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