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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hopefully someone can help me fill in the blanks as I am starting to realize how green my knowledge is of EV charging in Canada.

I understand the Ioniq EV comes with a 120v charging cable. A level 2 (240v) charging cable or wall mount needs to be purchased for faster charging.

I do not know much about the charging stations in my local area (Markham, Ontario) or further out. Will I need to buy adapters to use the public charging stations? Or do they offer a socket on the side where you can plug in a travel level 2 charging cable?

I am undecided if I should buy a level 2 charging cable and use that for my home (with the appropriate 240v 40amp breaker and socket) or spend $100 - $200 more for the wall mounted charger.

Any info on this would be great as I find a Google search is opening more questions for me than answers.

Also does anyone know if in Canada installing an external charging socket does anything for the value of your home?
 

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Hopefully someone can help me fill in the blanks as I am starting to realize how green my knowledge is of EV charging in Canada.

I understand the Ioniq EV comes with a 120v charging cable. A level 2 (240v) charging cable or wall mount needs to be purchased for faster charging.

I do not know much about the charging stations in my local area (Markham, Ontario) or further out. Will I need to buy adapters to use the public charging stations? Or do they offer a socket on the side where you can plug in a travel level 2 charging cable?

I am undecided if I should buy a level 2 charging cable and use that for my home (with the appropriate 240v 40amp breaker and socket) or spend $100 - $200 more for the wall mounted charger.

Any info on this would be great as I find a Google search is opening more questions for me than answers.

Also does anyone know if in Canada installing an external charging socket does anything for the value of your home?
I can answer part of your question

- You don't need an adapter to use public charging stations (there will be Level 2 (240v) or Level 3/DCFC (480v or 25kw and up). The charger itself has a cable that you connect to the car's charge port. Your car's charge port has 2 parts, an upper part which is in circle shape can charge from 120v and 240v AC wall charger. To use DCFC, you will use both the top and bottom of your charge port, that's why they call it CCS (Combined Charging System). If you look at the Leaf, the car has 2 seperate charge port, 1 charges from 110/240v and the other one charge from the CHaDeMo system.


Your other question regarding charging cable, someone else might want to help. My understanding is that you need to buy a charger (with a cable) that you connect to a 240v wall socket (which make the charger portable) or can be hardwired in the the charger (the charger stay with the house). Or are you saying you can just buy some sort of cable where you can connect it from your 240v socket (like your dryer or stove) and use it to connect to the Ioniq?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Your other question regarding charging cable, someone else might want to help. My understanding is that you need to buy a charger (with a cable) that you connect to a 240v wall socket (which make the charger portable) or can be hardwired in the the charger (the charger stay with the house). Or are you saying you can just buy some sort of cable where you can connect it from your 240v socket (like your dryer or stove) and use it to connect to the Ioniq?
Thank you for answering the first part of the question. For the second part I have added links to products to better help explain my confusion.

This item is called "Wall Mounted" though it seems to be the size of the portable style and from the pictures looks to be hanging by the plug not wall mounted. I assume something like this would be good to disconnect and throw in the trunk if needed for long trips and we need to plug into somewhere that has the 240v socket but no charger (not sure how often that situation arises).
Portable Charger

Or the other option is a wall mounted charger, but we would definitely go with a plug style so we can take it with us if we move.
Wall Mounted
 

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You don't need to buy an adapter/cable when using public charging station. They all come with the cable and plug. Some L2 charging station are free and some are not. I believe some L3 are also free, maybe there are in a pilot phase. The cost varies depend on operator of the charging station. Some charge by session some by duration.

Depend on your usage pattern. The L1 charging station can replenish around 8KM per hour and a L2 charging station can replenish 44KM per hour. If you drive say 80KM a day you need 10 hours to bring the battery back to 100%. If you only drive 40KM a day it is going to take 5 hours to charge the battery. If your charge window can accommodate 10 hours charging then sure you can forego a L2 charger.

L3 charging station is usually run by a company. You need some way to pay for using the charging station, be it an keyfob or an app. Some allow you to pay without registering using your credit card. You might need to pay surcharge if don't have an account with the operator. L3 charging is the fastest, usually half an hour will bring the charge up to 80%. Using only L3 charging will impact the longevity of the battery pack so try to avoid if possible.

You buy a charging station instead of a cable. L2 charging stations are usually wall mount but some can be carry around. There are two version, hard-wired version or plugin version. You cannot unplug a hard-wired version and take it with you when you move unless you shutdown the power and disconnect it. With the plugin version you can just unplug it and take it with you.

As to whether having an external charging station change the value of the home is tough to say. If the buyer is not into EV then it will bring no value to the buyer.

If you are to run your own feed and install it yourself (not that tough a job if you are handy enough) make sure you get an certified electrician to inspect and get it certified. You won't be able to claim the rebate if it is not certified. On top, if there are issue with the installation and cause some disaster your insurance company might deny the claim. You can claim the cost of the inspection/certification from the rebate program as well.

Here is a link to the government site that talk about EV charging.

Charging electric vehicles

This EV charging primer is also a good place to start

Buying Your First Home EV Charger | PluginCars.com
 

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Depend on your usage pattern. The L1 charging station can replenish around 8KM per hour and a L2 charging station can replenish 44KM per hour.
I know you mentioned this before/elsewhere but I wanted to note it an thank you. This is one of the best / simple explanations I've come across

L1 ~ 8 KM per hour
L2 ~ 44 KM per hour

Even if it is car specific and not 100% accurate, it works for me

Thank you
 

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I do not know much about the charging stations in my local area (Markham, Ontario) or further out. Will I need to buy adapters to use the public charging stations? Or do they offer a socket on the side where you can plug in a travel level 2 charging cable?
No need to buy the Level 2 charge cable to use public charging stations. There are various organizations offering public charging stations, some are free and others are not. This link shows the available charging stations belonging to ChargePoint network.

I am undecided if I should buy a level 2 charging cable and use that for my home (with the appropriate 240v 40amp breaker and socket) or spend $100 - $200 more for the wall mounted charger.
When you buy a Level 2 charging station it comes with its own cable. you have a choice of either 18 or 25 foot cable. There are two types, one is hardwired directly into your fuse box, and the other is you can purchase it with a plug and get a socket in garage wired to the fuse box.
 

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Also does anyone know if in Canada installing an external charging socket does anything for the value of your home?
It adds value for anyone who might want to buy your home who already owns or is thinking of owning electric vehicle, which is pretty niche audience right now. However, as the number of owners of electric vehicles grows over time then there is more potential of it adding some value.
 

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I know you mentioned this before/elsewhere but I wanted to note it an thank you. This is one of the best / simple explanations I've come across

L1 ~ 8 KM per hour
L2 ~ 44 KM per hour

Even if it is car specific and not 100% accurate, it works for me

Thank you
This is how the number are derived: Range / Charging time
Ioniq range: 200
L1 charge time: 24 hrs
L2 charge time: 4.5 hrs

L1 = 200 / 24 = 8.3KM
L2 = 200 / 4.5 = 44.4KM

Absolutely, this is only a rough estimate but should be fine in assessing whether you need a L2 charger or not. Having you own L2 charger gives you the flexibility when you drove more than your usual pattern.
 

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This item is called "Wall Mounted" though it seems to be the size of the portable style and from the pictures looks to be hanging by the plug not wall mounted. I assume something like this would be good to disconnect and throw in the trunk if needed for long trips and we need to plug into somewhere that has the 240v socket but no charger (not sure how often that situation arises).
Portable Charger
The charger maximum output is 5KW when you plug into a 240V 30A circuit with a NEMA 6-30 plug. I don't know how many people have that type of circuit in their garage. For one I don't. If you are going to spend over $700 and hope to find such circuit outside your house is slim then it is kind of pointless. Also the cable is only 12ft long, kind of short. The JuiceBox Pro 40 also claim their unit "portable". Yes you can unplug it if is plugged model but I am not going to lug a 20lb box around.

There is a version with longer cable and cost less.

https://www.amazon.ca/Leviton-EVBL2...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=2WX9PFKGW524193JAAD4
 

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Using only L3 charging will impact the longevity of the battery pack so try to avoid if possible.

You buy a charging station instead of a cable. L2 charging stations are usually wall mount but some can be carry around. There are two version, hard-wired version or plugin version. You cannot unplug a hard-wired version and take it with you when you move unless you shutdown the power and disconnect it. With the plugin version you can just unplug it and take it with you.
You are saying that using L3 charging is not good for batteries? I would assume it is the same thing as using 'fast chargers' for AA, AAA batteries but I might be wrong. I prefer slow charging (ideally 16h for AA, AAA) but could that logic be applied to hybrid cars, too?


We all do have cloth driers outlets (in private houses, at least). Will it be possible just to run a cable from one of those 240V outlets and charge PHEV/BEV?
 

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You are saying that using L3 charging is not good for batteries? I would assume it is the same thing as using 'fast chargers' for AA, AAA batteries but I might be wrong. I prefer slow charging (ideally 16h for AA, AAA) but could that logic be applied to hybrid cars, too?


We all do have cloth driers outlets (in private houses, at least). Will it be possible just to run a cable from one of those 240V outlets and charge PHEV/BEV?
I think you could do that as long as you have long enough charging cable.

I found a video on youtube someone doing this. Here is the link

 

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You are saying that using L3 charging is not good for batteries? I would assume it is the same thing as using 'fast chargers' for AA, AAA batteries but I might be wrong. I prefer slow charging (ideally 16h for AA, AAA) but could that logic be applied to hybrid cars, too?


We all do have cloth driers outlets (in private houses, at least). Will it be possible just to run a cable from one of those 240V outlets and charge PHEV/BEV?
This one looks easier.... i am wondering if any Ioniq owner has done this or similar way of using drier outlet...

 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
We all do have cloth driers outlets (in private houses, at least). Will it be possible just to run a cable from one of those 240V outlets and charge PHEV/BEV?
The only thing you will want to confirm with is that the 240V 2 pole breaker is 30 or 40 amps (the Ioniq only requires 30amps but 40amps would make it future proof for EVs that can handle faster charging [i.e. Tesla]). You can easily see this at your fuse panel without opening anything dangerous, the amps should be printed on the 240V breaker.

The next heads up is if you go with a L2 charger wall mounted that will be mounted outdoors and exposed to sunlight, snow and/or rain. You will need a NEMA 14-50 plug (dryer plug) inside of a weather proof enclosure. From the plug you will also need to install a new breaker as the typical 240V breakers are not GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter) these breakers cut off once they notice a unintended path such as water or a person.

I spoke to someone at autochargers in regards to the JuiceBox 40 and they said you can convert the plug style to a hard wire connection by simply opening the box and removing the plug and replacing it with the same gauge cable directly from the box to your fuse panel, thus eliminating an open connection. I am not 100% sure if that means you can eliminate the GFCI breaker because I am not sure if the box has a cut off in case of water or shorts. I might install a CGFI anyways to be safe, it sucks because the price difference between a standard breaker and a GFCI breaker is $180 CAD. But it could save my or my wifes life.
 
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You are saying that using L3 charging is not good for batteries? I would assume it is the same thing as using 'fast chargers' for AA, AAA batteries but I might be wrong. I prefer slow charging (ideally 16h for AA, AAA) but could that logic be applied to hybrid cars, too?


We all do have cloth driers outlets (in private houses, at least). Will it be possible just to run a cable from one of those 240V outlets and charge PHEV/BEV?
Correct, the same "fast charge" also apply to charging car batteries. They are the same lithium ion batteries and will age faster when subject to high voltage charging. You can't charge a hybrid battery. It is handle the vehicle.

There is nothing to prevent anyone using a dryer outlet. The issue is you need to run a heavy gauge extension to the car charger. The plug is also not designed to be plug/unplug daily. Using a transfer switch is probably a better option.
 

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I spoke to someone at autochargers in regards to the JuiceBox 40 and they said you can convert the plug style to a hard wire connection by simply opening the box and removing the plug and replacing it with the same gauge cable directly from the box to your fuse panel, thus eliminating an open connection. I am not 100% sure if that means you can eliminate the GFCI breaker because I am not sure if the box has a cut off in case of water or shorts. I might install a CGFI anyways to be safe, it sucks because the price difference between a standard breaker and a GFCI breaker is $180 CAD. But it could save my or my wifes life.
No you don't need a GFCI breaker. All EVSE has build in ground fault circuitry (CCID or GMI). Adding a GFCI breaker will interfere the EVSE operation.

My only concern with the JuicePro 40 is the operating temperature is rated at -20C and not -30 (chargepoint) or -40 (flo)
 

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Just keep this in mind, especially for the folks in Ontario which is going to apply the rebate. The plug must be certified to comply to code before it is qualified for the "installation" rebate. I am not sure the using such a hack connection will pass the certification process. Regardless you will still qualify for the charger rebate if it is purchased and shipped from a Canadian seller.
 

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I have been playing with L1 charging while A/C is on. There is a warning that charging will take longer when climate control is running. I find using L1 charging test you patient. I left charging running over an hour and only saw several percent of juice being replenished.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
No you don't need a GFCI breaker. All EVSE has build in ground fault circuitry (CCID or GMI). Adding a GFCI breaker will interfere the EVSE operation.
Awesome, this is the information I was looking for. Glad to hear as this makes the hardwire install much more appealing to me with the cost saving of not having to buy the GFCI breaker, NEMA plug and weather casing.

My only concern with the JuicePro 40 is the operating temperature is rated at -20C and not -30 (chargepoint) or -40 (flo)
I thought the JuiceBox was rated for -30C? I work from home so on those cold snap days I have zero intention on going out.

I do like Chargepoint, the only thing keeping me away from it is I can see the design being a problem in the long term with sun and cold exposure killing the plastic. And I don't know much about the app.

But the way autochargers is running the JuiceBox Pro I might switch to Chargepoint from a competitor.

The Flo looks great but again I have no idea what the app is like, plus that price point is pretty up there.

I wish I could buy the JuiceBox from the U.S. even after conversion right now it's cheaper.
 
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I thought the JuiceBox was rated for -30C? I work from home so on those cold snap days I have zero intention on going out.

But the way autochargers is running the JuiceBox Pro I might switch to Chargepoint from a competitor.

The Flo looks great but again I have no idea what the app is like, plus that price point is pretty up there.

I wish I could buy the JuiceBox from the U.S. even after conversion right now it's cheaper.
There are conflicting information for the JuiceBox. I have asked emotorwerks they said it is rated -20C. On some brochure it is listed -30C. If you installed it indoor then it should be OK.

Yes, Flo is at the top in pricing but it is within $250. Look at the grand schema we have just dropped over $30K on the vehicle another $250 is nothing if you amortized over 10 years. My plan is to get a plugin version with max temperature rating. You only need a very basic app that let you program the charge schedule and preheat the vehicle. The other features are fluff and might not be applicable to Canadian.

Buying from US seems appealing but if you factor in the incentive then it might not worth the hassle. It is going to cost you $1243 to get it from Autochargers. Your net cost is $743 after rebate that translate to roughly US$575. You still have to pay 5% GST in bringing the charger across the border so your chance of getting a unit below $550 does not happen that often.
 
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