Hyundai IONIQ Forum banner
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi,

I'm Bob Wilson, a soon to be retired engineer who in 2016 sold two Prius and bought two Plug-In hybrids. We've had so many friendly Ioniq advocates over at PriusChat, it occurred to me you' all might enjoy someone with the facts and data about his particular, plug-in hybrids. So we've owned four hybrids and briefly, here is their history.

In 2005, we lost our Camry in a rain-slick, accident so I replaced it with a used, 49k mi, 2003 Prius that I drove 800 miles home to Huntsville. That led to a lot of 'lessons learned'.

In 2009, I fell into a sweet deal on a new, 2010 Prius but almost didn't take the deal. To get collision avoidance and dynamic cruise control would have required adding $6k model upgrade and then $2k on top of that. But with the 1.8L engine, it served us well as our heavy load and cross-country car. All of my cars have trailer receiver hitches.

In early May 2016, I test drove a 2016 Prius that had TSS-P, the collision avoidance and dynamic cruise control but it was a Level 3 with a heavy, useless, moon-roof and only got 99.1 MPG on a local test loop. But the initial offer $33k dropped to $28.5k as I headed to the door . . . "Thanks, I'll think about it."

I had been looking at an end of lease, 2014 BMW i3-REx, with 6,440 miles for $29.9k so I bought it. I'd "sold" the 03 Prius to our housekeeper who needed reliable transportation (and affordable since it was still giving me 52 MPG.) I drove the BMW i3-REx home over a 2,800 ft pass, 463 mi home, and never looked back. But I noticed maintenance was a little expensive.

Two tires were replaced under warranty that goes to January 2019 and I bought the other two, $340. It took 5 days in the shop plus a weekend to get all the recalls and parts in. A month later, I cracked the windshield and it was $1.8k to replace with 4 days in the shop. A failing backup camera was replaced under warranty with the part ordered and four days later, the repair done. Then Dec 9, the driver-side, motor mount bolt, ~1/2", broke in rush hour traffic and the warranty repair took 14 days with a battery cooling hose coming from Germany. The replacement parts included ~3/4" bolt whose strength increases by a power function. I had to use the 2010 Prius for those two weeks and realized, I don't want to drive without dynamic cruise control and collision avoidance.

The Decatur Toyota dealer had just gotten a Prius Prime Premium (middle grade) and I test drove it. But when I called back,"I'm sorry Mr. Wilson, we sold that ($29.5k) car yesterday <pause> but I can get another one for $36k."

Two days later, I put a $500 deposit on a 2017 Prius Prime Plus (lowest grade) for $28.5k in Rhode Island. I flew out and drove it home, 1,200 miles using dynamic cruise control to follow trucks going 67-75+ mph getting 55.7 MPG with only one fuel stop at 600 miles. As a test, I ran the second tank dry and both highway and city driving got 699 miles at 60 MPG.

Then I drove 301 miles over 7 days in electric-only mode using free chargers at restaurants and shopping centers as well as home charging over night. I only paid for 1/3d of those electric miles, about $25. Yesterday, I sent the engine oil filter element, engine oil sample, and transmission oil sample to my testing service after 2,000 service miles and two manuals for our 2010 Prius to the new owner.

I sold the 2010 Prius with 73k miles, receiver hitch, Garmin nuvi GPS, lug nut bolt on scissors jack, full-size spare tire, 1kW inverter wiring, and nearly new tires for my asking price, $8k. FYI, no accidents but the usual cosmetic, surface stuff.

So let me recap my requirements:

  1. Mandatory - collision avoidance and dynamic cruise control.
  2. Optional
    1. EV >= 20 miles (current work commute is 8-9 miles)
    2. MPG >= 40 MPG (we drove 700 miles to and from Oklahoma for vacation)
    3. Seats >= 4 (my wife and her two dogs)
    4. Receiver hitch
    5. Self-maintenance technical data available to owner
As of today, none of the Ioniq models are available for sale in the USA (expected any time.) The USA EPA lists three models but two appear to have only hybrid capability, no plug-in hybrid metrics. Rumors suggest it won't be until near the end of 2017 that the plug-in version will be in the USA. Of course these same rumor mongers claimed Ioniq would for sale in the USA in 2016.

Regardless, I look forward to seeing the initial USA owner reports and sharing any comparative metrics with our two plug-in hybrids. Rest assured I am not here to troll for my rides but to provide facts and data ... insights.

About this forum, does it support TABLE tags and if so, what style?

Bob Wilson
 
  • Like
Reactions: IONIQ Admin

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,796 Posts
Nice to also have you here, Bob!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,252 Posts
welcome to the dark side bob :)


not a trap honest guv


yep you are correct, the hybrid and full EV are due in the next few weeks the guys in the US are being told, with apparently California getting the first deliveries


plugin due UK june / july 2017 with US currently the coming next winter (see attached image) I note the hybrid has been changed to"available now" which is not what we are hearing from our US colleagues


to be honest we don't know much about the plugin yet, there is a thread here http://www.ioniqforum.com/forum/226-hyundai-ioniq-plug-hybrid-phev/4009-phev-what-known-so-far.html


looks like you have had good service from your Toyota Prius's, all we ask is you have an open mind and ask anything you want and we will try and answer to the best of our ability


You Prius owners have knowledge about hybrids etc that we don't so hopefully we can share knowledge in both directions


BC1
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
251 Posts
Absolutely right, bluecar1. I've owned a Prius for more than 12 years, so I'll be glad to tackle any questions on the forum about my hybrid experience.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Hi,

The Ioniq community will soon enough be faced by the 'usual suspects' who have bedeviled the Prius community for over a decade. We have more in common than apart but sad to say, Hyundai press releases and 'auto reviewers' seem intent on following VW's abysmal example.

VW TDI diesels went out of their way to needle the Prius and every time we examined their claims, found wanting. So when VW was revealed to be lying, they had no friends. So let me offer an initial suggestion.

Generate a mph vs MPG (or L/km) chart at a fixed speed, both ways, level ground, cruise control moderated speed, little or no wind, at least 10 mi (16 km) each way. Step the increments in 10 mph buckets from the slowest to the highest practical speed. This can sometimes reveal a "knee in the curve" were performance excels or takes a dive. This is independent of any manufacture claims and provides a reproducible map of speed versus fuel consumption.

Bob Wilson
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,252 Posts
time will tell bob,


the lack of info from Hyundai has been the biggest issue both in US and Europe, then the lack of supply in Europe once the interest and demand has been generated


one of the big questions is the longevity of the LiPo battery, you guys have had it in some of the Prius's state side for a while so any info on care / helping extend its life by avoiding certain types of driving would be good
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
time will tell bob,

the lack of info from Hyundai has been the biggest issue both in US and Europe, then the lack of supply in Europe once the interest and demand has been generated

one of the big questions is the longevity of the LiPo battery, you guys have had it in some of the Prius's state side for a while so any info on care / helping extend its life by avoiding certain types of driving would be good
Sad to say, there are several LiON battery chemistries and each has their own strengths and weaknesses. Worse, the battery management and vehicle control laws really drive how hard the battery ages. So I would propose a different question, how can you measure the capacity?

Concurrent with that question, how can you get accurate metrics from the car about the battery?
  • temperature - this was a very important NiMH metric
  • voltage
  • current
In my case, I just paid $75 for a month of access to the Toyota Technical Information Service. This includes all of the repair manuals and diagnostic techniques. I just got it and already giving me ideas.

Next approach the problem of getting similar diagnostics tools that Hyundai references. Taking a Prius example, the 'Techstream' software is configured to monitor the 14 to 19 module pairs, voltage and temperature of the NiMH traction battery. The car is force charged until it shuts down the engine. Then with the rear wheels against a curb or block, the car is put in "R" so the battery discharges. During the discharge the temperatures, voltages, and current are monitored looking for module pairs that show abnormal voltages and areas with abnormal temperatures. Then using the instrument SOC, it is easy to calculate the remaining capacity.

The lesson learned is treat the car like any other engineering part that needs independent analysis. Even if Hyundai may be trying to keep things obscured, it is your car. Instrument it either with the Hyundai tool or off-the-shelf electrical instrumentation. NOTE: this is not something for the faint of heart BUT those who like me are driven by curiosity.

Going to my basic mph vs MPG chart, you're looking for places where the performance seems to show a 'knee.' Often one side will be sweet and the other 'a goat.' You won't know until you do the hard work, benchmark the car.

Bob Wilson
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
8,252 Posts
the other interesting point that has come out over on the priuschat thread is the information that the eCVT used by Toyota appears to have a slight economy advantage over DSG around town, but on highway / motorway it is the DSG that has the slight economy advantage


that appears to be down to the way the two motors in the Toyota eCVT work so efficiently at low speed, but at highway / motorway speed they are not so efficient as they have to spin much faster than the single motor in the Ioniq due to it being on the ICE side of the DSG gearbox


having done some research into how the eCVT works i'm impressed with the elegant simplicity of the principle of it and the way Toyota have implemented it, but the way it drives is not for me
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
the other interesting point that has come out over on the priuschat thread is the information that the eCVT used by Toyota appears to have a slight economy advantage over DSG around town, but on highway / motorway it is the DSG that has the slight economy advantage


that appears to be down to the way the two motors in the Toyota eCVT work so efficiently at low speed, but at highway / motorway speed they are not so efficient as they have to spin much faster than the single motor in the Ioniq due to it being on the ICE side of the DSG gearbox


having done some research into how the eCVT works i'm impressed with the elegant simplicity of the principle of it and the way Toyota have implemented it, but the way it drives is not for me

Yes..and this simplicity is part of the reason the Hybrid Synergy Drive (HSD) has been so reliable over time. Another reason I'm wary of the Dual Clutch in the Ioniq.

Heck, I see many, many GEN2 (2003-2009) Prius still going strong around here...and I'm in a harsh weather state ( Minnesota ).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
I'm sorry, I had to. I discovered this terrible song the other day from a Sprite soda commercial.

I'm also concerned about the longevity of the DSG but I don't think it'll be an issue.
Yes..the Dual Clutch *probably* will not be an issue...for the amount of time most folks keep their cars nowadays. Not sure I would want to keep it past the warranty period though.

Regarding the song...quite possibly the worst song ever.....that I can't get out of my head now. :eek:

Funny..and my son plays hockey too! Apparently his hockey team makes fun of this song...
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
Top