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Discussion Starter #1
Hi, I'm shopping for a 100% electric Ioniq and I'm wondering how a battery warranty works. If battery life goes down to 69%, then I understand Hyundai will bring it up to 70% for free. Ok.

But if 2 months later, it's at 69% again, Hyundai will bring it up to 70% again? And 2 months later, it's at 69% again, Hyundai brings it back up to 70%? Isn't something wrong here?

The warranty means Hyundai will restore a 69% battery to 70%. What good is that?

Thank you.
 

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Interesting topic. There would be little to no benefit of Hyundai to do that. The cells must be balanced for it all to work correctly, if it’s a bad pack, I am sure they change that out, but my guess if there is an issue,you get a pack rebuild which would be 100%. So far I know of 1 Ioniq with 150k that has minimal to no degradation. So I am not concerned. If I buy out my ‘19 lease, I get a lifetime battery warranty, 70% or a defect.

if you are looking at a 20 or 21, they are all getting new packs as a recall. 10 years is a long ways away.
 

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Ioniq EV, basic trim
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Don't know the answer but it wouldn't make sense for them to keep topping it up from 69% to 70%.

I think the warranty is only 5 years or maybe 8 years for the battery itself (may vary by region) and I think it's pretty unlikely it will be down to 70% in that time. You never know your bad luck but it looks like judging by reports on this forum that most batteries are 90%-100% after 5 years/100,000 km.
 

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Red 2019 Ioniq 38 Premium EV
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Be aware the 38 kWh Ioniqs built between May 2 2019 & Nov 30 2019 are likely to get a battery-swap. There's a USA recall in place about this. The 28s are fine, different batteries, no problem.
 

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I have had my 38 kWh main battery replaced under warranty in the UK due to a bad cell. I had to push quite hard to get it looked at properly, but once they did look closer they were willing to do the warranty repair at no cost to me. This repair was a whole new battery pack.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have had my 38 kWh main battery replaced under warranty in the UK due to a bad cell. I had to push quite hard to get it looked at properly, but once they did look closer they were willing to do the warranty repair at no cost to me. This repair was a whole new battery pack.
What was the criteria? Was the indicated life simply below 70% at full charge, so Hyundai took looked at it?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
To answer my own post, no I don't think Hyundai would bring it back to 70% many times. To satisfy the warranty, they could get away with bringing a 69% battery to 70%, once. This would satisfy the warranty, but leave a customer with practically nothing more than before the service. Unless I'm wrong of course.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
... 10 years is a long ways away.
Ten years is a long time, but relevant because if you make a decision to keep the same car for 10 years, that's when you're better off financially getting an EV. If only 5 years, ICE cars are usually cheaper. The 5-to-10 year period is when the cost of running an ICE can surpass the initial cost of an EV.

ICE : low initial cost + high running costs
EV : high initial cost + low running costs

There are many reasons to get an EV but when you have a financial argument to top it, you can silence most remaining critics.

My current car is a 14 years old ICE. I kept a record of all maintenance costs from 10 to 14 years, so I would have a benchmark to compare with EVs.
 

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2020 Hyundai Ioniq Premium (EV)
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I don't think any Ioniq to this day has seen natural degradation of more than 30 %. The battery problems seen on early Leafs has unfortunately tainted all BEVs in general. If a battery has one or more defective cells, those cells will be changed individually (to my knowledge) within warranty. If the whole battery pack is evenly degraded to less than 70 % capacity, I'll assume you'll get a new battery all together. But I've never heard about an Ioniq with more than a couple of percent battery degradation at most. The battery will most likely outlast the vehicle by far.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I don't think any Ioniq to this day has seen natural degradation of more than 30 %. The battery problems seen on early Leafs has unfortunately tainted all BEVs in general. If a battery has one or more defective cells, those cells will be changed individually (to my knowledge) within warranty. If the whole battery pack is evenly degraded to less than 70 % capacity, I'll assume you'll get a new battery all together. But I've never heard about an Ioniq with more than a couple of percent battery degradation at most. The battery will most likely outlast the vehicle by far.
That's encouraging. I see that often: "the battery will last the life of the vehicle" and variants, however, I frankly don't know what that means. My current car is 14 years old and unlike a living thing, each one of its parts can be replaced and I could keep going. Drivetrain and transmission still good, ICE motor can last 1 000 000 km, spots of rust but nothing terrible. I still can't identify what condition has to be satisfied for a car to be "dead" (except a collision of course). Most maintenance issues have been related to suspension, brakes, and bearings, but this could keep going forever and I wouldn't mind (it's what they do with taxis).

My usual mechanic tells me it's time to change, but he probably goes by the criteria that repairs would now cost more than the car's value. I find that criteria to be bogus. Once a car has hit rock bottom market value, you don't pay depreciation, which I like.

Anyway, I don't feel like arguing with a mechanic who sends me to get a new car instead of repairing mine. Especially when I get to shop for an EV!

To stay on topic, I guess the big unknown is how and when an EV battery "dies". Because, in my experience, an ICE car never really does.
 

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I have had my 38 kWh main battery replaced under warranty in the UK due to a bad cell. I had to push quite hard to get it looked at properly, but once they did look closer they were willing to do the warranty repair at no cost to me. This repair was a whole new battery pack.
Thanks for sharing.
If you have time, would like to learn more.
What did this mean in practice? Did it mean, for instance, that a small % of the pack was not working, so the range was slightly reduced (by how much)? Or what problems did it cause?
 

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I have had my 38 kWh main battery replaced under warranty in the UK due to a bad cell. I had to push quite hard to get it looked at properly, but once they did look closer they were willing to do the warranty repair at no cost to me. This repair was a whole new battery pack.
Do you mind to elaborate on this bad cell behavior? I know about a case where only 1 cell is not fully balanced and when battery temp is bellow 5 degree Celsius this cell starts to extremely drop voltage (down to 2.5V) when bellow 8% SoC.
 
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My opinion: OEMs producing BEV don't have a lot of experience with the expected life-time of the battery. Hence (I hope) they have optimized for a longer life. Usually, initially engineers create products, only later controllers limit some parts for not-too-long lifetime. I hope, our early products will last relatively long or cause so much trouble that the OEM has to do something to limit the impact of bad reputation.
 

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@SKolja and @Esteban you can find my battery woes fully documented in this thread: Battery usable Capacity and Safety Margins (Buffers) (from post #13 onwards).

What my local dealer told me was that if any cell was 0.5 V different to an adjacent cell that was a warning, and 1.0 V difference was a instant failure and needed replacement. My cells actually only got about 0.25 V apart due to one bad cell. The behaviour of this one was that it was consistently 0.2 V(ish) lower than the others and wouldn't charge above 3.92 V. The car kept trying to balance the pack but failed.

I'm not completely convinced I was told the truth, and I think it may actually be 0.05 V and 0.1 V because healthy packs seems to be well within these margins. It seems rare to get outside the range of 0.02 V difference (which is the level of accuracy that the voltages are reported at) between cells in most packs.

@SKolja it sounds like your battery might be in a bad way then... have you noticed any drop in range? And what voltages are the other cells?
 

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Ioniq 38kwh 2020
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Be aware the 38 kWh Ioniqs built between May 2 2019 & Nov 30 2019 are likely to get a battery-swap. There's a USA recall in place about this. The 28s are fine, different batteries, no problem.
Looks like it's definitely going ahead, just read an article on the ft about it. My lease is up in January so hopefully it won't be before that, presume it isn't a simple 1 day job and can't really be bothered with all that.
Would make a good used buy at 2 years old though, if it has a brand new battery.
 

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Ioniq 38kwh 2020
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Ten years is a long time, but relevant because if you make a decision to keep the same car for 10 years, that's when you're better off financially getting an EV. If only 5 years, ICE cars are usually cheaper. The 5-to-10 year period is when the cost of running an ICE can surpass the initial cost of an EV.

ICE : low initial cost + high running costs
EV : high initial cost + low running costs

There are many reasons to get an EV but when you have a financial argument to top it, you can silence most remaining critics.

My current car is a 14 years old ICE. I kept a record of all maintenance costs from 10 to 14 years, so I would have a benchmark to compare with EVs.
I had a 15 year old ice, when I worked out what I spent in fuel and maintenance and tax (I could easily spend £500-600 at mot time and I serviced it myself mostly), leasing a brand new Ioniq really wasn't really much more. Maybe £70 a month extra for something far far nicer to drive.
 

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@Knifyspoony battery pack on my Ioniq 28kWh is without any issue after only 25000km. What I mentioned in my post is a e-Niro (KIA) of my friend. There the cells are balanced all the time and only one cell goes crazy in very specific conditions (SoC bellow 8% and pack temperature bellow 5 degree Celsius), if the battery is outside of this specific range, it behaves as it should and cells are balanced.
That's is why I wanted to know the symptoms of your case in order to understand if we are talking about same behavior.
According to Huyndai documentation, both 28kWh and 38kWh battery packs have max. voltage deviation between cells 40mV or 0,040V in specs. If it is more, it should be considered bad and replaced.
 

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That's encouraging. I see that often: "the battery will last the life of the vehicle" and variants, however, I frankly don't know what that means. My current car is 14 years old and unlike a living thing, each one of its parts can be replaced and I could keep going. Drivetrain and transmission still good, ICE motor can last 1 000 000 km, spots of rust but nothing terrible. I still can't identify what condition has to be satisfied for a car to be "dead" (except a collision of course). Most maintenance issues have been related to suspension, brakes, and bearings, but this could keep going forever and I wouldn't mind (it's what they do with taxis).

My usual mechanic tells me it's time to change, but he probably goes by the criteria that repairs would now cost more than the car's value. I find that criteria to be bogus. Once a car has hit rock bottom market value, you don't pay depreciation, which I like.

Anyway, I don't feel like arguing with a mechanic who sends me to get a new car instead of repairing mine. Especially when I get to shop for an EV!

To stay on topic, I guess the big unknown is how and when an EV battery "dies". Because, in my experience, an ICE car never really does.
Generally you are correct that you can keep replacing parts and keep an ICE car indefinitely...the undefinable period being”until you’re sick of it”.
Comparably an EV is the same . The difference is that you have far fewer lower cost parts to fix or replace and far lower consumable costs. After about ten years, or whatever warranty length exists. You can look at about a $4k bill to buy and install a new main battery. The $ figures are guesses and vary widely by regions. That $4k is not going to be significantly different than the expense of an ICE vehicle over the same period of time. I’m sure that someone can argue that one who is frugal, or mechanicaly handy, or ‘has a friend’ can save more, the average person will find the cost over time to be quit close between EV and ICE. AND you will, probably in a shorter time than you think, find the difference in initial cost getting smaller and smaller.
 

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that $4k installed battery cost is a very theoretical guesstimate and I see that you do state that. The 28 KW battery is still $15k For a 4 year old Ioniq EV. the Oldest Tesla batteries are still $15k installed as well. A 2013 Leaf battery replacement is $12k too. I guess leaf purchasers were told by selling dealers “around $5k “ in the future and they are shocked to find it’s actually $12k 8 years later. I know everyone wants to justify that EV batteries will be cheaper in the future but so far that has not proven true. A recent google article stated that EV batteries were currently $2500-$4000 which is totally false. Hopefully there will be rebuilders and repackagers of batteries so you will buy rebuilt or used units in the future. The most expensive single plug and play battery module in the Ioniq battery is a $900-$1600 cost and there are 12 of them. they can also be rebuilt right down to the battery pouch. I have the service manual and it is not rocket science. With only a few thousand Ioniq 28KWs in the US, the used and aftermarket battery market will be very limited.

To Be frank, a current new Ioniq battery replacement in a ‘17 will total the car due to cost vs car value.

I am very glad the ‘19’s and olders have a lifetime battery warranty. I hope it is never needed, but it justifies buying out the lease at the end when it’s over. The worst case scenario is a 29% capacity loss. 70 miles in the Winter...ugh.

At the least, so far, the Hyundai’s do not have the battery degradation issues of the Leaf’s.

3B2F6444-6D63-4AFD-A2C0-A4D65C9FA3C2.png



Generally you are correct that you can keep replacing parts and keep an ICE car indefinitely...the undefinable period being”until you’re sick of it”.
Comparably an EV is the same . The difference is that you have far fewer lower cost parts to fix or replace and far lower consumable costs. After about ten years, or whatever warranty length exists. You can look at about a $4k bill to buy and install a new main battery. The $ figures are guesses and vary widely by regions. That $4k is not going to be significantly different than the expense of an ICE vehicle over the same period of time. I’m sure that someone can argue that one who is frugal, or mechanicaly handy, or ‘has a friend’ can save more, the average person will find the cost over time to be quit close between EV and ICE. AND you will, probably in a shorter time than you think, find the difference in initial cost getting smaller and smaller.
 
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