Hyundai IONIQ Forum banner

1 - 20 of 38 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
When you're planning a journey in the EV, what do you find the best method for figuring out where to stop to charge? Does the in-car satnav route between chargers based on assumed kW consumption?

I'm looking at http://zap-map.com and wondering if I just find the nearest charger on the motorway to each 100 mile interval of my route?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
There are a lot of apps that you can download to use. PlugShare or Open Charge Map would be good to use for planning routes that have charging stations along the way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Do those actually tell you where to stop for a given state of charge though? Most of them do A to B route planning and show chargers, but I haven't seen one that says "you'll need to stop at this one as you'll have 10% remaining" like Tesla's in car nav does
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Ohh okay, I'm not too sure about that to be honest, I'm new to the EV game but to my knowledge, I don't know of any apps that do that. Wouldn't how far you'll be able to get be dependent on how you're driving, the conditions, what you're using, etc. ? It'll be changing constantly ?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yeah, I've seen that, but it's a very basic version of what Tesla do with their planning software. Someone's created a Tesla-specific version on the web: https://evtripplanner.com but the data is all very specific to Tesla models, although they're just starting to support Leafs too.

I suggested it to one of the mapping team at Google I know, who thought it was a great idea, so fingers crossed!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
With what Google is planning do with their Automotive Division odds are they'll get something going and if they do, it should be better than most, as is typically the case when the Google of things come to market.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
I'm thinking of writing an app which would plan your route and recommend where to stop to recharge based on your car's range, your comfort zone in terms of % left before recharging and locations of suitable charging stations.

Shouldn't be too hard.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
39 Posts
When you're planning a journey in the EV, what do you find the best method for figuring out where to stop to charge? Does the in-car satnav route between chargers based on assumed kW consumption?

I'm looking at http://zap-map.com and wondering if I just find the nearest charger on the motorway to each 100 mile interval of my route?
I found this in another thread a while ago, I've been compiling a list of places I visit and with the severe lack of charging infrastructure in Australia trying to comfort myself into wanting the EV :p

GreenRace
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
68 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I'm thinking of writing an app which would plan your route and recommend where to stop to recharge based on your car's range, your comfort zone in terms of % left before recharging and locations of suitable charging stations.

Shouldn't be too hard.
Take a look at https://evmaps.co.uk - it seems to be the closest to what you're suggesting at the moment
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
1,448 Posts
As efficiency varies a lot (up to 40%?) with temperature, such an app would be more useful if that variable also is taken into account, plus maybe whether or not you use heating or AC.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,843 Posts
had look at app using a destination I would use once I get my Ioniq EV, did not provide enough charges to reach my destination see attachment
Try this one for the UK
https://www.zap-map.com/

Pretty much updated on a weekly basis. Don't think it's available as an overlay for Google Maps though, but it is accessible via an App.

As for route planning in an EV, always check not just for the charger toward the limit of range less 10% or so, but also the distance to the nearest charger after, to make certain it's within driving range if the first is closed.

FWIW, and a bit of inside information which you won't find publicised because it doesn't fit the agenda, on average, a charge point in the UK network will go down 3 times a year for repair (Slow and Fast chargers) while Rapid chargers (the 80%-in-half-hour type) go wrong on average 5 times a year. It's not they are inherently unreliable, but they are used and abused in public locations. Your home Fast charger, by comparison, will probably go wrong once every 3 years.

At this point (pardon the pun) you cannot always guarantee the charging point you choose is actually available, so along with range anxiety always plan for the `one after` scenario... :eek:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,044 Posts
Try this one for the UK
https://www.zap-map.com/

Pretty much updated on a weekly basis. Don't think it's available as an overlay for Google Maps though, but it is accessible via an App.

As for route planning in an EV, always check not just for the charger toward the limit of range less 10% or so, but also the distance to the nearest charger after, to make certain it's within driving range if the first is closed.

FWIW, and a bit of inside information which you won't find publicised because it doesn't fit the agenda, on average, a charge point in the UK network will go down 3 times a year for repair (Slow and Fast chargers) while Rapid chargers (the 80%-in-half-hour type) go wrong on average 5 times a year. It's not they are inherently unreliable, but they are used and abused in public locations. Your home Fast charger, by comparison, will probably go wrong once every 3 years.

At this point (pardon the pun) you cannot always guarantee the charging point you choose is actually available, so along with range anxiety always plan for the `one after` scenario... :eek:
Thanks that was very helpful Will use app when I get my EV see attachment
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,843 Posts
That looks much more like the current availability.

Remember to make sure you optimise your travel time by choosing Fast or Rapid charge points where possible, always top-off the battery for each long journey stop (the extra few minutes to go from 80-100% is more than offset by increased range between stops IF you plan for the 10 percentile).

On that trip you might also want to look at dual carriageway options. The Ioniq EV is far more efficient at 60 than 75 mph (drag increases as the square of the speed), and of course `fuel` use is minimal when stopped, so less of a loss to juice when at a traffic light or roundabout. Use of the motorway optimised route with a route planner when you own an EV is often counter-productive, and I certainly wouldn't be using the M5 and going round the M42 IF there are charge points available on the A-roads...

Remember an extra recharging stop is likely to cost money (those recharge points ain't free, and you will nearly always have a coffee and a bun at every stop) and of course, time - even a quick stop is likely to be half an hour which at 60mph is 30 miles, at 75 it's 37.5 miles so saving just a single stop benefits more than attempting a higher average speed to arrive quicker. With an EV if you want to arrive sooner, just leave earlier!

That trip is about 370-odd miles so is perfect case in point. At 75 mph you will be seeking a stop at about 90 miles, making for a 375/90 = 4.16 stop average - but of course there is no `.16` in a battery, so it's a FIVE stop strategy planned around circa 90 mile leg length and a 45 minute per-stop meaning 5x45 or nearly four hours in stops alone.

If you can eke out the 110 miles before stopping (which means getting close to optimal range of the EV within the 10% margin) then 375/110 = 3.4 stops or FOUR stops, saving 45 minutes and a paid refuel (and an extra coffee and bun). Even if the journey is considerably longer at 420 miles by taking that more circuitous, less direct route, then 420/110 STILL means just FOUR stops... providing the rapid recharging points are where they need to be.

I'll stop because my head hurts, but you get the picture !
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,843 Posts
Or the fuel cost of mounting the coffee maker and bun warmer in the boot.

Turn every stop into an impromptu tailgate party :x
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
246 Posts
I'm thinking of writing an app which would plan your route and recommend where to stop to recharge based on your car's range, your comfort zone in terms of % left before recharging and locations of suitable charging stations.

Shouldn't be too hard.
That would be very useful. Fastned has such an app for the Netherlands, but it only uses fast chargers of its own. Futhermore, there is a german website for route planning (https://www.goingelectric.de/stromtankstellen/routenplaner/. An app of this is inbeta version (for iOS) available for testing.

I must say, when you want to travel long distances, the slow chargers are not interesting (unless for emergencies) and for the Ioniq, that can charge 1 phase only, that means only 50 kW DC charges are interesting.

When you plan a route with the onboard satnav, you will be warned when your destination is out of reach and you will be asked to guide you to the nearest charger. However, the system does not discriminate between slow and fast chargers, so I find this service not very useful. For emergencies it may be useful but you can end up at a charger for which you don't have a card. You can't see this in the satnav.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
272 Posts
I'm starting to collect factors that would need to be used to compute the best route and charging strategy.

- distance on full
- distance based on speed factor (% drop if > xxx mph)
- location of charge stations and their level (2 or 3)
- round trip or one-way (+ distance traveled at destination) [assuming same day turn around]
- planning for possible unavailability of a charging station (need backup plan)
- comfort level (how low can the remaining battery life be before you would want to recharge)


This seems like a really interesting optimization problem as there are a lot of potential solutions. It might be faster to arrive if you go out of your way a bit to recharge at a faster station than take a direct route. Lower speeds seems to get better mileage (is there any direct evidence of this?).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,843 Posts
Yes lower speeds get better mileage - it's empirical as its a function of power v. drag, and potential to kinetic energy transfer. If you accelerate less hard, for not as long - or both, you consume less power. You might want to check out the `Fuel Economy of the Hybrid` topic as although it refers to ICE in combination with EV, the drag factors and kinetic v. potential energy arguments are exactly the same for EV use.

You will also want to check out Bjorn Nylands excellent Ioniq EV vids over on youtube


where he focusses on real-world driving conditions and range.

But as a starting point I grabbed something off Speakev.com:
Cruise set to 70mph - total range 110 miles
Cruise set to 60mph - total range 125 miles
Cruise set to 55mph - total range 130 miles

You are therefore going to need some sophisticated calculations with such minimal variations to be able to compute `best route`, and then you need to factor the time equation - more time on road = more power consumed for a/c or heat, lights etc. IS that offset by the juice saved by going slower? It's going to be tight!

Frankly, if the nett difference in range is just 15 miles per charge between 60 and 70, or merely 20 between 50mph and 70mph I'd be looking more at the positions of chargers en route and downtime-to-recharge than any careful driving in hypermile mode - in which case I take back what I said about prioritising A-roads and travelling slightly more slowly - one may as well stick to motorways with fewer deviations to get to the Rapid chargers at gaps closer to maximum practical range (i.e. the fewest stops approach, but regardless of road miles to be covered).

Finally, in the topic I was looking at
https://speakev.com/threads/real-world-range-of-ioniq-ev.28633/

Do read the entire topic as it is Ioiniq experience specific and the true top up range figures didn't seem to come anywhere near those numbers above - closer to 60 miles between top-ups. This stresses the importance of the ability to top up on a Rapid Charger in a reasonable amount of time as for the 370 mile journey referenced here that now becomes potentially a SEVEN stop strategy for 7 x 45 mins = a total of 5 and quarter HOURS recharging, assuming only being able to force 60 miles range in per stop.

All of a sudden the coffee and buns isn't as important as booking an overnight hotel!

Its this nadgery that puts me off current EV. If you need a degree in rocket science just to calculate a route, the skills of a hypermiler to mitigate the stop strategy and calculation of a journey schedule that factors in slope and duration spent recharging, where's the fun in driving? One may as well take a train. Especially as you rarely get to charge according to need - most fast and rapid chargers offer only a fixed price charge so you can end up paying to fill the batteries whether you fill them or not.
 
1 - 20 of 38 Posts
Top