[Lin19687]

If it is a FREE charger then there should be a 30 min MAX if someone is there waiting. otherwise stay with your car and let them plug in if you have been there for 30 min already.

If you are PAYING for it, then stay till you want to go, you ARE paying for it.

FYI, you can Only use one plug at the double station. Not sure why they even have 2 plugs (unless it is a CCS and Chademo combo) it makes people think they can charge at the same time.

Anyway, I agree that there should be signs for Charging Etiquette !!

 

[JTinAZ]

If it is a FREE charger then there should be a 30 min MAX if someone is there waiting. otherwise stay with your car and let them plug in if you have been there for 30 min already.

If you are PAYING for it, then stay till you want to go, you ARE paying for it.

FYI, you can Only use one plug at the double station. Not sure why they even have 2 plugs (unless it is a CCS and Chademo combo) it makes people think they can charge at the same time.

Even with the free 30 min with EA, if you want to stay beyond 30 minutes, you should. Because, you ARE paying beyond 30 min.

And, the reason for 2 plugs is because the charging port on EV cars vary from side to side. Just a convenience.

 

[nXt]

I went to charge on Sunday, 4 stations all used. One i3 on a 150kw, another i3 on a 350kW. That one was at 99% charging at 1kW!!!!! And session time was at 87 minutes!!!!!! This was at a Walmart. I had to wait 10 minutes before one of the i3 people arrived, after shopping they left right as they got to the car. I charge up and the other i3 at 1kW still charging at 99%. 10 minutes later the guy comes from shopping at Walmart. He was at Walmart for over 100 minutes while charging. Took him 5 minutes to pack his trunk and do whatever. He finally stopped charging (still 99%) and left.

DC Fast charging going at 1kW is RIDICULOUS, EA stations should cut off charge if it goes slower than a certain kW. And then charge huge idle fees.

Here's a picture of his station. When I took the picture it was 87 minutes and $4.65 charge, at 1kW. Fee is $0.43/kWh. So he only got 10kWh worth at 87 minutes, 99%. Dude didn't need to charge at all, has plenty of SOC.

 

[JTinAZ]

@nXt, I agree, that's ridiculous and very inconsiderate of others. As more and more people buy EVs, it's only going to get worse. I don't know the solution but events like this could really discourage others from buying or keeping an EV. I read somewhere that one out of five EV owners go back to ICE cars.

 

[ElFroCampeador]

Maybe everyone should keep a stack of friendly little notes in their cars to put on offending vehicles "Your model is only rated to charge at a maximum of [x] kw, but you are occupying a 350kw plug, forcing drivers whose vehicles can take advantage of that extra power to spend more time charging. Please be more mindful next time"

 

[Rich5]

Good luck educating the 'general population' on technical stuff they have no clue about. Or perhaps these are the people that, when in a grocery store, put their shopping carts in the middle of the aisle w/o even a clue they have blocked the aisle and 5 people are waiting on them.

 

[dky]

@nXt, I agree, that's ridiculous and very inconsiderate of others. As more and more people buy EVs, it's only going to get worse. I don't know the solution but events like this could really discourage others from buying or keeping an EV. I read somewhere that one out of five EV owners go back to ICE cars.

I'd say starting SOC during peak hours might prevent this. If car is already 80% or more, then refuse charge. @nXt picture shows $5, if my math is right, then this random guy started at around 88% SOC. Although at the same time, why is EA charging at 1kW? Just 100% that car and start charging idle fees. I guess the car could be preventing 100%, but I'm sure EA has a way of knowing that.

 

[ctromley]

It's probably worse than it appears in these comments. There are so many noobs out there (which is a good thing in the bigger picture) who still think of charging from an ICE perspective - as in going some place to charge, sticking something in the car and waiting for it to charge.

I'll bet 80% of these people could get along just fine by plugging in at home with their puny little granny charger at around 1.3 kW. Ask me how I know. DC fast charging really has only one good purpose - charging quickly on a road trip. Charging for those who have no place at home is still a challenge that needs to be solved. DC fast charging is a poor solution for that, but those EVers have my sympathy.

I think it makes a lot of sense to charge higher rates for higher power chargers and definitely charge for idle time.

It's a bad idea to assume that the public will get the hang of this on their own. You have to lead them. For example, most are utterly clueless about different grades of gasoline, why they exist and who needs them. They use regular because everybody they know does, and it's cheaper.

Don't try to educate them because that will have limited success at best. We must lead them - hard - to do the right thing.

 

[ArtSpot]

It's probably worse than it appears in these comments. There are so many noobs out there (which is a good thing in the bigger picture) who still think of charging from an ICE perspective - as in going some place to charge, sticking something in the car and waiting for it to charge.

I'll bet 80% of these people could get along just fine by plugging in at home with their puny little granny charger at around 1.3 kW. Ask me how I know. DC fast charging really has only one good purpose - charging quickly on a road trip. Charging for those who have no place at home is still a challenge that needs to be solved. DC fast charging is a poor solution for that, but those EVers have my sympathy.

I think it makes a lot of sense to charge higher rates for higher power chargers and definitely charge for idle time.

It's a bad idea to assume that the public will get the hang of this on their own. You have to lead them. For example, most are utterly clueless about different grades of gasoline, why they exist and who needs them. They use regular because everybody they know does, and it's cheaper.

Don't try to educate them because that will have limited success at best. We must lead them - hard - to do the right thing.

You are not wrong my friend. Money is a good incentive to learn about charging!

 

[JTinAZ]

Here's another example of an uninformed or uncaring driver using a 350kw charger. This person's maximum charge rate is 50KW for their Mini Cooper. When I arrived, every 150kw charger was empty. I would have said something but the driver was probably chillin' in the mall. Before I left, their rate of charge was down to 9KW. Unreal...

BTW, on other threads, folks have shown concern over fast charging in the heat. Was 106F and I was getting between 150kw and 175kw. Maybe if I was using the 350kw charger I wouldn't have gotten any better. I have YET to use a 350kw charger (always occupied).

 

[hpark21]

Maybe if I was using the 350kw charger I wouldn't have gotten any better. I have YET to use a 350kw charger (always occupied).

I don't think 2 MAYBE 3 minutes difference in charge time warrants aggravation of thinking about how the other guy is plugged into 350KW charger.
My last charge went from 20% -> 90% in 23 min. in 150KW charger. I DOUBT 350KW charger would have brought that number down to teens since most delay probably happened in 80-90% range and I was hitting CONSISTENT 175KW charge speed pretty much whole 20%-80%.

 

[nlc201]

I don't think 2 MAYBE 3 minutes difference in charge time warrants aggravation of thinking about how the other guy is plugged into 350KW charger.
My last charge went from 20% -> 90% in 23 min. in 150KW charger. I DOUBT 350KW charger would have brought that number down to teens since most delay probably happened in 80-90% range and I was hitting CONSISTENT 175KW charge speed pretty much whole 20%-80%.

Whole heartedly agree. Most 150 kW EA chargers I've been to go up to 175 kW. Assuming this, the 350 kW charger is only advantageous up to about 52% SOC, where the charging rate drops from a max of 225 - 230 kW, to around 175 kW and then lower. Depending on your starting SOC when plugging in, it's not a huge difference in time. I'll use the 350s when available, but only having a 150 (175) is really not the end of the the world. It's just a few minutes more most of the time.

 

[jordanamy]

-Call EA daily and yell at them for such poor service.

Other ideas?

I actually have found EA customer service to be really great? ESPECIALLY compared to my experience this weekend with ChargePoint. I was on a road trip though a small town and the only charger within 150 miles was a ChargePoint station with 2 chargers. When I was there driving up on Friday one of them was reading "in use" even though no car was plugged in, and the other was actually in use. No amount of punching things on the screen convinced the empty charger that it was not actually in use. So I called customer service at CP expecting them to reboot the second one just like EA always tries when a station is not working. The tech support at CP sounded like a generic call center with no actual help. The person said "I don't have the authority to reboot but I will pass this to my manager". So I had to wait for the only working charger. Fast forward to three days later, I drove back through again on my way home, and the same charger was still out of service, and this time I was stuck in line behind 2 Teslas (no Tesla chargers around for miles either).

So I called ChargePoint customer support again this time planning to ask to get transferred to the mythical manager who could reboot the station. This time when I pressed I was told that CP doesn't manage the stations and I'd have to talk to the company that does. I asked him to look up who that would be and it turned out it was the city, this small town had provided and managed those CP chargers. So I called the city and spoke to someone in the planning and public works department with all the free time while I waited an hour for the Teslas to charge Who knows what will come of it but I'd just say I like the EA model a lot better where they own the stations and really do try to help when a station is down.

 

[dky]

Here's another example of an uninformed or uncaring driver using a 350kw charger. This person's maximum charge rate is 50KW for their Mini Cooper. When I arrived, every 150kw charger was empty. I would have said something but the driver was probably chillin' in the mall. Before I left, their rate of charge was down to 9KW. Unreal...

BTW, on other threads, folks have shown concern over fast charging in the heat. Was 106F and I was getting between 150kw and 175kw. Maybe if I was using the 350kw charger I wouldn't have gotten any better. I have YET to use a 350kw charger (always occupied).

The keywords here "When I arrived...". That station could have easily been full with the exception of that one 350 charger when that mini cooper arrived and then the other cars left.

Every EA station I've used that provided 350kW chargers had at least 2 of them. Does this station not have 2 of them as well? Either way, it doesn't matter much for the Ioniq 5 so complaining about this specific scenario is a waste of energy imo.

 

[JTinAZ]

The keywords here "When I arrived...". That station could have easily been full with the exception of that one 350 charger when that mini cooper arrived and then the other cars left.

Every EA station I've used that provided 350kW chargers had at least 2 of them. Does this station not have 2 of them as well? Either way, it doesn't matter much for the Ioniq 5 so complaining about this specific scenario is a waste of energy imo.

I doubt it was full. I've been at different times and I've never seen it full at this location. There's eight stations and only one 350kW charger.

You are right as others have pointed out, it's a waste of energy complaining. Actually, I wasn't really that aggravated. I've learned "some" patience in my old age. Guess I got a little too excited making an exaggerated point on the forum in support of the OP. In my defense, I did soften my tone in my post: "Maybe if I was using the 350kw charger I wouldn't have gotten any better (charging speed). "

 

[nlc201]

Another advantage to charging on the 150 kW is the the battery heats up slower, which reduces the chance for rapidgating, which would throw all the advantages of the 350 out the window if it happens. In fact, if it was a super hot day, I might go for the 150 over the 350 for that very reason. I'm also a tad paranoid about rapidgating as I'm sure it's not great for the battery in the long run.

 

[alexw]

It sounds like we're mostly all on the same page. I think a little etiquette and knowledge would go a long way, but IN FACT, I think that's actually too much to ask and bound to fail, and the only practical solution is for EA to stop designing stations to fail.

For one, The charger backend architecture isn't modular enough, one cabinet per dispenser or two for 350s. It NEEDS to be more fluid, so that any charger can dynamically serve higher draw. Tesla seems to be the only EVSE equipment designer that's figured this out (5X V3 superchargers share one 500kW converter cabinet).

For two, the layout is (usually) godawful stupid. Who thought it was a good idea to put two leads on a dispenser that can reach two separate spots? Granted Tesla has it easy with every car having the same geometry, but EA's solution means I have to explain the whole two lead one-at-a-time thing to a new person EVERY time I charge, and ALWAYS will.

On top of that, dispenser position, especially in diagonal situations. I've experienced multiple times coming up to two stalls unusable because a car is blocking one stall while using the lead from another, and on closer inspection, it's ACTUALLY the only way for them to charge simply because the station design is dogshit.

FWIW I've never had any of these problems at EVGo, but I've also never charged at a 350kW EVGo dispenser with the short lead and limitations that implies. All the 50kW EVGo stations make it extremely clear which spot goes to which dispenser, and any car can use the correct one because the lead is longer.

 

[larrywest42]

... another i3 on a 350kW. That one was at 99% charging at 1kW!!!!! And session time was at 87 minutes!!!!!!
⋮
Fee is $0.43/kWh. So he only got 10kWh worth at 87 minutes, 99%. Dude didn't need to charge at all, has plenty of SOC....

Not etiquette, but one way EA and others could alleviate this is charge for time spent connected when charging <= 1 kW ... maybe after 5 minutes.

Say $0.10/minute for stations under 200 kW, $0.20/minute for 200 kW or higher.

Not a lot of money obviously, but enough of an irritant to nudge some people to move more quickly.

But EA and others need to hear from customers (like readers of this forum) that cars idly sipping electrons at busy locations is a problem they should address.

Update: I see now that EA says it charges $0.40/minute after 10 minutes idle.

 

[hpark21]

FWIW I've never had any of these problems at EVGo, but I've also never charged at a 350kW EVGo dispenser with the short lead and limitations that implies. All the 50kW EVGo stations make it extremely clear which spot goes to which dispenser, and any car can use the correct one because the lead is longer.

EA chargers (150KW+) use liquid cooling of the lines (my understanding) and thus will get very heavy if the lead gets longer.
That said, maybe it will make sense for all the car companies to agree on charge port locations - front middle/rear middle/etc. Or charger companies set it up just like the gas stations and make them all pull through

 

[Rwilson]

Just did a trip from Northern California to San Diego and back. Used all electrify America stations only found one that was full. Most Southern California stations charge very slowly no matter if I was using a 150 or 350. Found one station at a Walmart with only three chargers available one was out of service and A Rivian was parked for over two hours in one not charging but plugged in. In Southern California had to use the swipe method on most of the electrify America stations because the readers weren’t working.
All in all pretty simple and smooth.