[RandalFippinger]

Is there a way to display how many kilowatts is in the batter, as opposed to the % of full? Presumably if this number does not get up to the full 77 kw than the battery is starting to degrade. Is this a correct assumption? I know temp impacts milage but does temp impact the total charge a batter can take? Is the battery conditioner (promised in MY23) only for how fast the car can charge in the winter or the charge capacity? Thanks for your help. I have looked around and cannot find the answers to these. If there is another thread pls point me in the right direction. Thanks!

 

[Ixlr8]

Is there a way to display how many kilowatts is in the batter, as opposed to the % of full? Presumably if this number does not get up to the full 77 kw than the battery is starting to degrade. Is this a correct assumption? I know temp impacts milage but does temp impact the total charge a batter can take? Is the battery conditioner (promised in MY23) only for how fast the car can charge in the winter or the charge capacity? Thanks for your help. I have looked around and cannot find the answers to these. If there is another thread pls point me in the right direction. Thanks!

This article may provide insights to your question. It may provide additional knowledge, to some, how to prolong your EV battery life and reduce degradation. Notice I used the word "reduce". Every time you charge your battery it's life is being shortened. How much will be explained in the article attached.

If you or others find it worthwhile, give it thumbs up. I certainly learned from it.

Are you killing your lithium batteries?

Lithium-ion batteries are expensive, and large battery packs such as those in everything from electric cars to electric motorcycles and e-bikes usually make up the single largest cost of the entire vehicle. So it makes sense that you’d want to ensure your batteries live as long and happy a life...

electrek.co

 

[DocinNC]

This article may provide insights to your question. It may provide additional knowledge, to some, how to prolong your EV battery life and reduce degradation. Notice I used the word "reduce". Every time you charge your battery it's life is being shortened. How much will be explained in the article attached.

If you or others find it worthwhile, give it thumbs up. I certainly learned from it.

Are you killing your lithium batteries?

Lithium-ion batteries are expensive, and large battery packs such as those in everything from electric cars to electric motorcycles and e-bikes usually make up the single largest cost of the entire vehicle. So it makes sense that you’d want to ensure your batteries live as long and happy a life...

electrek.co

Useful article, thanks. However, it leaves out the recommendation for occasional 100% charges (Hyundai recommends about once a month) to reset the BMS (battery management system).

 

[rbdavis808]

Useful article, thanks. However, it leaves out the recommendation for occasional 100% charges (Hyundai recommends about once a month) to reset the BMS (battery management system).

It does say that 100% charge is not such a big deal as long as you don't stay there for long.

 

[Ixlr8]

Useful article, thanks. However, it leaves out the recommendation for occasional 100% charges (Hyundai recommends about once a month) to reset the BMS (battery management system).

Charging to 100% balances the cells in the pack. I use Car Scanner Pro with my odb2 Bluetooth adapter to read cell voltages. They are always mv differences between them at various % soc. When I charge to 100%, which has been 3 times since delivery in mid January, once it gets to 95-100%, it will take a long time at 100% before it stops charging. Monitoring the cells through Car Scanner Pro, you can visually how the i5 levels up cells out of balance with the full pack.

 

[smaster553]

Charging to 100% balances the cells in the pack. I use Car Scanner Pro with my odb2 Bluetooth adapter to read cell voltages. They are always mv differences between them at various % soc. When I charge to 100%, which has been 3 times since delivery in mid January, once it gets to 95-100%, it will take a long time at 100% before it stops charging. Monitoring the cells through Car Scanner Pro, you can visually how the i5 levels up cells out of balance with the full pack.

One question always lingers in the mind - should one use DCFC 25-80%, or charge L2 at home. Yes DCFC is free but are we degrading our batteries faster using only that for two years. I have EA DCFC around 2 miles from home with 10 stalls so I would want to save 400 kw/month if I can only use DCFC.

Right now I have set levels of 90% on L2 and 80% on DCFC in the car EV settings.

 

[Ixlr8]

One question always lingers in the mind - should one use DCFC 25-80%, or charge L2 at home. Yes DCFC is free but are we degrading our batteries faster using only that for two years. I have EA DCFC around 2 miles from home with 10 stalls so I would want to save 400 kw/month if I can only use DCFC.

Right now I have set levels of 90% on L2 and 80% on DCFC in the car EV settings.

Great question. However, it depends on your circumstance and usage. When we have travelled to visit family, we had no choice but to use a DC charger because not enough % soc for return trip. That being said, we only charged enough to make it back. Our regime is to only charge at home with Lv2, Lv1 or any other location where AC Lv2 is offered. In fact, I prefer Lv1. Sure it takes longer but at 1kWh, over night it puts enough juice for my needs. I don't need to keep the battery topped up. DC generates tremendous heat. Sure, Hyundai warranties your battery but unless you need to quickly charge your high capacity battery then just charge Lv2 or Lv1 and only to % soc that makes sense for your daily driving. Example, we no longer drive to and from work. Therefore, we will charge vehicle at different charging events at home to 50%, 60%, 70% and even 90%. We then wait until we are down to 10-15% before charging it. Everyone will have an opinion on this but coming from a 2019 Tesla M3 SR+, I saw battery degradation of 12% in 3 years with only 22k. My usage was 45% DC Tesla Superchargers and the rest Lv2. It took about 3 months of draining to zero soc and chaging to 100% multiple times before regaining about 7% of range. This happens because Tesla's Elon and end users tell you to keep plugged in and charge to 80%. After time the bms can no longer determine the ends points of battery capacity and would show a lower range or a significant degradation. In sense i manually recalibrate bms and battery pack. This is not documented but well posted in a number of forums. This experience has taught me how not to charge my li-ion battery with the i5 and made me a wiser ev owner.

This i5 has a very amazing HV pack imho. The GOM is programmed very different than Tesla's. Perhaps I like this one better because it always leave me with a positive impression about the condition of my battery pack range. Given it is summer I have seen 24% higher range that rated after a charge whereas the Tesla's range always showed a decrease and had to use their trip predictor to really see what real-world range which never reflected the % soc.

 

[ctromley]

One question always lingers in the mind - should one use DCFC 25-80%, or charge L2 at home. Yes DCFC is free but are we degrading our batteries faster using only that for two years. I have EA DCFC around 2 miles from home with 10 stalls so I would want to save 400 kw/month if I can only use DCFC.

Right now I have set levels of 90% on L2 and 80% on DCFC in the car EV settings.

Batteries are like people. They don't like to be too hot or too cold. DC fast charging necessarily charges at a higher current (I) to get the faster charge, and batteries have resistance (R). Higher current causes higher heating. In fact, the heating power created is expressed by I²R, meaning if you double the current, the heating power is increased 4X! This keeps the BMS and battery thermal management very busy.

It's OK on an infrequent basis. It's not something that's prudent every charge. If you have L2 charging, use it. It's dirt cheap insurance on a high-value asset. If you don't have L2, take a closer look at whether you can get by with the L1 "granny charger" that came with the car. Many peoples' needs are covered just fine with L1, though there might be that odd time where a faster charge would be Very Useful - and a car, after all, is a tool. If your tool is out of commission when you need it, even unexpectedly, it's not a very good tool.

If you must use DC fast charging on a regular basis, try to use the lower-power chargers. A 50 kW charger will commit less heating abuse than a 250 kW. It takes longer to charge of course. Plan to charge where and when you can kill time or do more frequent, shorter charges.

And when you occasionally need the fastest charge you can get, go ahead and get it and don't worry.

 

[schettj]

It's OK on an infrequent basis. It's not something that's prudent every charge.

When it's touted as a major feature, you'd expect you could actually use it. So far, I've played with the granny charger twice, and one L2 charger that one time I went to the office between covid outbreaks, and otherwise charge 2x/week at EA fast chargers. To 80-85%. If that significantly degrades the battery sounds like a defect to me.

 

[Ixlr8]

When it's touted as a major feature, you'd expect you could actually use it. So far, I've played with the granny charger twice, and one L2 charger that one time I went to the office between covid outbreaks, and otherwise charge 2x/week at EA fast chargers. To 80-85%. If that significantly degrades the battery sounds like a defect to me.

There is no defect. Li-ion batteries, regardless who manufacturers them, degrade with every charge AC or DC. It is the inherit chemistry, the chemical reaction that occurs while charging. You may not see the degradation in GOM but it is happening. Albeit, the long term longevity of the cells are reduced greater through DC charging. The owners manual has disclaimer about the battery pack reduced capacity overtime. But, it is just not Hyunday, all other EV batteries suffer from this. Read the article I posted earlier if you'd like to learn more how EV batteries work and how degradation occurs. It might increase the longevity of your EV. Knowledge is power 😁!

 

[ctromley]

When it's touted as a major feature, you'd expect you could actually use it. So far, I've played with the granny charger twice, and one L2 charger that one time I went to the office between covid outbreaks, and otherwise charge 2x/week at EA fast chargers. To 80-85%. If that significantly degrades the battery sounds like a defect to me.

I'm guessing you're new to EVs. It's easy to make assumptions you shouldn't. It's not obvious to you that you shouldn't use maximum capacity charging for your EV all the time, but it IS obvious to you that you shouldn't use maximum horsepower output from your ICEV all the time. (Because duh, that'll wear it out quicker, and not because the engine is defective.)

When EVs become as familiar as ICEVs, misunderstandings like yours will go away, and people will just 'know' what they should and shouldn't do. It will become embedded in our social/cultural/technological common sense. So while we're still learning the ropes we should be more open-minded about what should and should not 'sound like a defect'.

{EDIT}
The other side of this is that, as a long-time EVer, I cannot comprehend why anyone with an EV would want to go somewhere else to charge their car, when one of the killer advantages of an EV is never having to go to a gas station again - and only needing fast charging in those rare instances when you're on a road trip.

Even if your fast charging is free, there's just not enough savings to make that worthwhile.

When you charge at home, your charging time is effectively only a few seconds. However long it takes to plug in when you come home and unplug when you leave. The actual charging happens in the background while you're doing other things. It's not like you have to stand there and wait for it or even stroll somewhere to kill time. I guess if you're coming from a gasser that's a hard paradigm shift to adjust to, but it sure is nice when you get there!

Of course that does not apply if you're one of the many who cannot charge at home. Apartment dwelling, street parking only and other similar barriers are the last great challenge to completing the transition to EVs. It's hard because it's so variable on such a local scale, but we'll get there.

 

[schettj]

There is no defect. Li-ion batteries, regardless who manufacturers them, degrade with every charge AC or DC. It is the inherit chemistry, the chemical reaction that occurs while charging. You may not see the degradation in GOM but it is happening. Albeit, the long term longevity of the cells are reduced greater through DC charging. The owners manual has disclaimer about the battery pack reduced capacity overtime. But, it is just not Hyunday, all other EV batteries suffer from this. Read the article I posted earlier if you'd like to learn more how EV batteries work and how degradation occurs. It might increase the longevity of your EV. Knowledge is power 😁!

I have been using Li-ion batteries for a couple decades now. I know how they work. The whole design of the EGMP / 800V system is to support fast charging safely - we have a nice battery management system that should cope with regular DC charging.
Applying generic li-ion rules to the ioniq5 might not be the best approach. Follow the user manual. Charge between 20-80% as much as possible, about 12 times a year AC charge to 100% to rebalance your batteries.

 

[schettj]

So while we're still learning the ropes we should be more open-minded about what should and should not 'sound like a defect'.

If I buy an EV that comes with 2 years free DC charging, yet I am supposed to assume using the free charging for 2 years will damage my EV, why is the EV manufacturer setting me up for a bad customer experience? Why are they training me to use DC charging? Why did they build the platform to support fast DC charging?

 

[Ixlr8]

I have been using Li-ion batteries for a couple decades now. I know how they work. The whole design of the EGMP / 800V system is to support fast charging safely - we have a nice battery management system that should cope with regular DC charging.
Applying generic li-ion rules to the ioniq5 might not be the best approach. Follow the user manual. Charge between 20-80% as much as possible, about 12 times a year AC charge to 100% to rebalance your batteries.

Who hasn't used Li-ion batteries for a couple of decades but this does not make us experts in EV Li-ion batteries. The cells found in power tools, 18650 cells, are not subject to the high current demands in an EV or the extreme temperatures experience by charging at fast DC chargers. The batteries in EVs are lightyears ahead of Li-ion batteries from a few years ago never mind 2 decades ago. Today, EV batteries are made to withstand significant stresses and they are a marvel of engineering.

BTW, the manual makes zero mention of "charging 20-80%". It makes zero mention of "12 times a year to AC charge your batteries".

Yes, you are right about the rapid charging abilities of the 800V EGMP platform. This does not imply you are not going to get battery degradation. It is not a defect! No one has said anything about significant degradation in any posts I've read in this thread unless I have missed it.

I am posting link to article here for you. The article cites references to Professor Jeff Dahn, the leader of Tesla’s battery research partnership with Dalhousie University.

Are you killing your lithium batteries?

Lithium-ion batteries are expensive, and large battery packs such as those in everything from electric cars to electric motorcycles and e-bikes usually make up the single largest cost of the entire vehicle. So it makes sense that you’d want to ensure your batteries live as long and happy a life...

electrek.co

This is from page 9 of your owners manual.

"Natural degradation may occur with the high voltage battery depending on the number of years the vehicle is used. This may reduce the distance to empty.

• AC charge is recommended to keep the high voltage battery in optimal condition.

If the high voltage battery charge amount is below 20%, you can keep the high voltage battery performance in optimal condition if you charge the high voltage battery to 100%. (Once a month or more is recommended.)

The value of the high voltage battery charge level may vary according to the charging conditions (state of charger, outside temperature, battery temperature, etc.). In order to fully charge the battery, the current of the high voltage battery will be gradually decreased, so that the longevity and safety of the battery can be secured."

 

[ctromley]

If I buy an EV that comes with 2 years free DC charging, yet I am supposed to assume using the free charging for 2 years will damage my EV, why is the EV manufacturer setting me up for a bad customer experience? Why are they training me to use DC charging? Why did they build the platform to support fast DC charging?

There is little about batteries that is black-and-white. Just like mechanical devices wear more quickly from heavy use than when treated gently, so do electro-chemical devices. It's just how the world works.

As always, in all things, YMMV.

And BTW, go back and see my edit to post #11 in this thread. You may be missing out on one of the real joys of EV ownership.

 

[schettj]

BTW, the manual makes zero mention of "charging 20-80%". It makes zero mention of "12 times a year to AC charge your batteries".

True except for the second bit (see your own quote from the user manual, below) but 10-80% is specifically and WIDELY stated for that 18 minute DC charge speed. On a DC charger the car will ramp down the DC charge to pretty close to a Level 2 AC charger for that last 10%.

Yes, you are right about the rapid charging abilities of the 800V EGMP platform. This does not imply you are not going to get battery degradation. It is not a defect! No one has said anything about significant degradation in any posts I've read in this thread unless I have missed it.

Right, normal degradation will happen no matter what you do, so if I DC charge 100 times a year (ie, ~2x week) I should be no worse than if I don't. THAT would be a defective BMS or battery design.

I am posting link to article here for you. The article cites references to Professor Jeff Dahn, the leader of Tesla’s battery research partnership with Dalhousie University.

Are you killing your lithium batteries?

Lithium-ion batteries are expensive, and large battery packs such as those in everything from electric cars to electric motorcycles and e-bikes usually make up the single largest cost of the entire vehicle. So it makes sense that you’d want to ensure your batteries live as long and happy a life...

electrek.co

I am not driving a Tesla

you can keep the high voltage battery performance in optimal condition if you charge the high voltage battery to 100%. (Once a month or more is recommended.)

Works out to 12 times a year

 

[schettj]

The other side of this is that, as a long-time EVer, I cannot comprehend why anyone with an EV would want to go somewhere else to charge their car, when one of the killer advantages of an EV is never having to go to a gas station again - and only needing fast charging in those rare instances when you're on a road trip.

I will use home charging (using that free excess solar not charging my powerwall) once the free charging from EA is over. Why give away ~$3,000 in value?

Also, most people don't have gas pumps at home, and about a 1/3 of the population does not have the ability to charge at home. There will be a lot of EV owners with no choice.

 

[Ixlr8]

True except for the second bit (see your own quote from the user manual, below) but 10-80% is specifically and WIDELY stated for that 18 minute DC charge speed. On a DC charger the car will ramp down the DC charge to pretty close to a Level 2 AC charger for that last 10%.

Right, normal degradation will happen no matter what you do, so if I DC charge 100 times a year (ie, ~2x week) I should be no worse than if I don't. THAT would be a defective BMS or battery design.

I am not driving a Tesla

Works out to 12 times a year

For someone who has been using Li-ion for 2 decades you seem to be pretty closed minded. What is the difference between a Tesla Li-ion or Hyundai or the Li-ion you have been using over 2 decades?

Don't get defensive. Several of us have had the experience of owing EVs and only want to share our pains for others with less experience, such as yourself, to avoid the apparent trip you are about to embark by putting your blind faith on a manufacturers literature.

This has happened to Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt and Tesla owners. There is no ego here just share of knowledgeable experience to avoid pitfalls and headaches down the road.

Good luck with your 80-85% DC charging at EA for the next two years.

 

[schettj]

For someone who has been using Li-ion for 2 decades you seem to be pretty closed minded. What is the difference between a Tesla Li-ion or Hyundai or the Li-ion you have been using over 2 decades?

Don't get defensive. Several of us have had the experience of owing EVs and only want to share our pains for others with less experience, such as yourself, to avoid the apparent trip you are about to embark by putting your blind faith on a manufacturers literature.

This has happened to Nissan Leaf, Chevy Bolt and Tesla owners. There is no ego here just share of knowledgeable experience to avoid pitfalls and headaches down the road.

Good luck with your 80-85% DC charging at EA for the next two years.

Yep, thanks! Battery management systems and technology are better today than 4 years ago when that article was written, and if using the free charging supplied by the manufacturer causes a problem I definitely will let you and Hyundai know 😁

 

[Ixlr8]

Yep, thanks! Battery management systems and technology are better today than 4 years ago when that article was written, and if using the free charging supplied by the manufacturer causes a problem I definitely will let you and Hyundai know 😁

Don't mention it. I am always happy to help someone challenged! 😉