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Discussion Starter #1
I have the 28kw version and I am very happy with it, I was looking forward to getting the 38.3kw one when my lease is up next April. I have heard the updated version has it's charging speed reduced to 34kw, that was bad but I then found out it reduces even further at around about the 50% mark then quickly reduces to about 23kw by the time it reaches 70%. If Hyundai dont sort this charging out I will not be getting the new Ioniq when my lease expires. Charging speeds should be getting faster not slower as time passes.
 

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I believe the charging speed of the 38 kWh IONIQ is 44 kW from 10% to 50% SoC (not 34 kW), and then it tapers. If the charge stations you use are mainly 50 kW units then the 38 kWh IONIQ's added range helps and your total time on a long trip could be equal to the 28 kWh IONIQ. However, if you regularly use 100kWh (or more) stations then the 28 kWh IONIQ's 70 kW max charge rate, really does start to make a difference, especially on very long trips (> 600 km).

One point of interest is that for trips in the 200km to 300 km range the new IONIQ would be better because it wont need a charge. For trips in the 300 km to 600 km range it's a wash, but you might be able to stage your stop with a food break which means that it might be more convenient. My IONIQ charges in about 20 mins at a 100 kW unit, which isn't really long enough for a proper/relaxed meal. I mean, I could wolf down a Big Mac and fries in that time but if I'm on holiday and want to relax and de-stress, a nice 1 hr meal with that somebody special is the way to go. The 28 kWh IONIQ used between 10% and 84% is only 20.7 kWh of energy, which at highway speeds is about 80 to 90 mins of driving or 150 km (assuming 100kph). Those are short stints.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you for your input, the stats I am reading says max power 40kw average power 34kw on 50kw charger and 36kw average on 175kw charger. It just does not make sense to upgrade a battery and down grade it's charging ability. I really love my Ioniq but this will likely cost Hyundai a lost sale from me. It was a great car as 28kw but now could follow the course of the 40kw Leaf "Rapidgate".
 

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From what I've been able to deduce, the reduced charging speed is as a result of the increased cell density and hence loss of cooling capacity. It's disappointing for sure, but not a train smash. My current IONIQ is insured "new for old" for the first 4 years of ownership in the event of it being written off. For me the added range (at the expense of charging speed) would be a big win. I'd be able to switch from daily charging to charging every second day. Additionally, with the current state of the DCFC network, I'd be able to make trips to places (I actually want to drive to) that I just can't with my current IONIQ. I'd be happy with the 2020 (38 kWh) IONIQ as a replacement.
 

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Thank you for your input, the stats I am reading says max power 40kw average power 34kw on 50kw charger and 36kw average on 175kw charger. It just does not make sense to upgrade a battery and down grade it's charging ability. I really love my Ioniq but this will likely cost Hyundai a lost sale from me. It was a great car as 28kw but now could follow the course of the 40kw Leaf "Rapidgate".
Check ABRP to compare the two Ioniq models for your most occurring trips. You will see that sometimes you are faster with the 38 kWh Ioniq (indeed, especially for trips between 200 and 300 km), sometimes there is practically no difference in total traveling time, and for some other cases, it may take an about 5% longer traveling time, which, for example, for a trip of 7 hours is about 20 minutes.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Check ABRP to compare the two Ioniq models for your most occurring trips. You will see that sometimes you are faster with the 38 kWh Ioniq (indeed, especially for trips between 200 and 300 km), sometimes there is practically no difference in total traveling time, and for some other cases, it may take an about 5% longer traveling time, which, for example, for a trip of 7 hours is about 20 minutes.
Thank you Jan. I have ABRP I will use it to work out timing. 99.9% of time the charging speed will not matter to me, it just took the shine of my expectations of the 2020 Ioniq. The extra range will take the pressure off for charging when a charge point is broken or has another car charging. I was looking forward to doing more travel with the 2020 Ioniq but the charge speed was making me think twice.
 

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I say this as someone who had a 28 for two years and did replace it with a 38 last November.

It all depends on what, exactly, you compare. If you compare %SOC Between the cars then, yes, it is evident the 38 is slower. If you compare charge rates on rapids that are >50kW then, yes, it is evident the 38 is slower.

However, if, instead, you compare range values, the picture is less simple. If you drive the 38 exactly as if it was a 28 (so, for example, run it down to say 20 miles range, then charge it up to 120 miles range, not more) AND use max 50kW chargers (as many here in the UK are) then the time taken is very similar. So, like for like - no material difference. But.......

If you have longer to spend at a rapid, the 38 will continue at a higher rate PAST the range level at which the 28 tails off rapidly (~110 miles; at this point, you are actually saving time), PAST the range level at which the 28 stops altogether (93% SOC, ~130 miles) and will in fact continue at further reducing rates until full (unless the charger itself stop you). At which point you can drive for about 180 miles (3 hours at motorway speeds) without stopping again. Or, put another way, a full 38 is charged to about 140% SOC of a full 28.

And, of course, it's all an irrelevance when using 7kW points. Indeed, if the outlet is up to it, the 38 will take a slightly higher rate (7.2kW up from 6.6kW) and, again, if you leave it long enough is then good for 3+ hours motoring.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thank you, I have been checking a lot on the A Better Route Planner and finding it hard to believe how little difference it is making. Better to hear from someone who has had both 28 and 38kw Ioniq's. Still as EV's evolve the charging speeds should be getting quicker not slowing down. Why the 28kw one charges relativly fast up to 94% and 38 starts cutting back before 50%.
 

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Well in fact the 28 runs fast up to about 80% (~110 miles) and then slows right down - initally to about 7kW and then slower still until it cuts out at 93% (~125 miles).

The 38 starts to cut back at around 50% (~90 miles), true - but comparing range to empty with the 28, that's equivalent to about 70% SOC in the 28. So, again, to properly compare like-with-like, you should say that the 38 slows down at 70% of the 28's capacity; it's not valid to compare directly 80% of a 38 to 80% of a 28 since they represent very different ranges - right?

And, again, at 80% the 28 drops to about 7kW until shortly before it stops. At 50%, the 38 drops to about 25kW and carries on at that rate until it has more range than the 28 when full. Thus for the excess range over ~110 miles up to ~125 miles, it takes less time overall. And carries on.

As you say - for a very long trip, the end-to-end timing, including stops, may well be similar. But for all those trips that are >130 miles and <180 miles, then there clearly is a big advantage with the 38, in that you won't need to stop at all.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thank you, but what I was saying is charging speeds are getting faster on higher power chargers but the 38kw Ioniq is charging slower. New cars should be able to charge faster.
 

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I had just gotten my 38 last week and decided to test the charging time with level 3.

I arrived at 19.5 - 20% (the car showed 19, then 20 when I stopped).

When the charge commenced, I was charging at 33kW immediately. Once the car reached 50%, it jumped to 44 - 46kW where it stayed until 60% and then went back down to 33kW, then eventually getting closer to 80% it dropped to 22-23kW.

The total time from 20% to 80% was 41 mins, which gave me 186 km. In 30 mins, I got 140km while the 28 would have (theoretically) gotten 160km.

I am quite pleased with the numbers, which won't really matter to me because I will be home charging nearly 100% of the time. I was at first concerned with the reduced charging rates then realized that I wasn't truly going to be affected by it.

As for long road trips - we don't go on many, but when we do that has always been the allure of the electric car for my wife and I. Since we had our 1st electric car that was a Smart Fortwo, we've treated road trips as adventures. Plotting the stops, etc.

If we truly wanted to get somewhere far quickly, we'd fly then rent a car at the destination. Or, our children / brothers / sisters all have gas cars so there wouldn't be a problem swapping them for a couple of weeks. They would actually enjoy it.




Kev
 

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Thank you Okko. I too mostly manage on home charging but I would like to tour with my car. I think I am more disapointed with Hyundai making the 38 charge slower and not faster as other manufacturers are, we technically don't need cars that go 240 miles on one charge, we need to rest long before that, but I dont want to wait an hour to charge. Small batteries with fast charging. With more EV's on the road, more cars will need to use the chargers, so either more chargers are needed or make them charge faster for quicker turn around.
 

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Yes, you'll have to make that decision. My wife loves her 2018 28kW Ioniq (so do I, else I wouldn't have gotten the 38 myself). I am satisfied and comfortable that I will not be bothered by the slower charge rate. The extra range makes a huge difference for my everyday driving which to me is the most important. I also LOVE the safety tech that is incorporated into the newer Hyundai's. The SCC, LFA, HDA are spectacular and for someone who has not had these features, resemble a very capable semi-autonomous drive.


Kev
 

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..... I think I am more disapointed with Hyundai making the 38 charge slower and not faster as other manufacturers are, we technically don't need cars that go 240 miles on one charge, we need to rest long before that, but I dont want to wait an hour to charge. Small batteries with fast charging.
Don't have false expectations: physical laws make that with the current technology a small battery has to charge slower, just to not blow up your battery or to seriously damage it. Due to that, it is not reasonable to compare cars with a relatively small battery to cars with a much larger battery. If very fast charging is a priority, in the current situation you better choose a car with a battery that is at least twice as large as the Ioniq batteries or maybe wait for new battery technology to be on the market.
 

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I guess only time will tell, but wouldn't it be possible that the slow charging speed will protect the battery from degrading compared to cars that charge faster?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It is possible but why can my 28kw Ioniq charge at 70kw on a 100kw charger but the 38kw Ioniq is restricted to 44kw.
 

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It seems that it all depends on a person's "sweet spot" as to the amount of time that they want to stop and rest / charge.

Reading most of the posts that I have, the "sweet spot" appears to be 30 mins. In my above example, my 38 gave me 140 kms in that amount of time while the 28 would give me 160 kms (again theoretically as I would have to perform the same experiment with the wife's 28). Personally 20 km difference is not a lot, besides you're still going to have more range as a whole when finished because of the larger capacity of the 38.

As Jan said, if you believe that you will be utilizing level 3 charging more often then not, then a vehicle with a larger battery pack may better suit your needs. Model 3 with supercharging?


Kev
 

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It is possible but why can my 28kw Ioniq charge at 70kw on a 100kw charger but the 38kw Ioniq is restricted to 44kw.
Because the 28 kWh IONIQ was optimised for a battery that size and has great cooling - in fact at it's launch, the 70 kW charge rate was exceptionally high for a "budget" vehicle. The 38 kWh IONIQ has more capacity crammed into almost the same volume. This reduces it's ability to dissipate heat, which in turn means that electric current (which is what creates the heat) must be limited to ensure battery safety and longevity. A future IONIQ, designed from scratch with a bigger batter in mind will likely have much increased charging rates.
 

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Because the 28 kWh IONIQ was optimised for a battery that size and has great cooling - in fact at it's launch, the 70 kW charge rate was exceptionally high for a "budget" vehicle. The 38 kWh IONIQ has more capacity crammed into almost the same volume. This reduces it's ability to dissipate heat, which in turn means that electric current (which is what creates the heat) must be limited to ensure battery safety and longevity. A future IONIQ, designed from scratch with a bigger batter in mind will likely have much increased charging rates.
In fact the 38Kwh has both air and liquid cooling, so arguably they've improved that aspect in respect to the 28kwh.

I think some have focused on battery percentages, e.g time to get to 50% capacity. But, 50% capacity is greater on the 38kwh than 50% on the 28kwh.

In real world driving most are going to be doing most charging from home, this being the case the 38kwh has more range from home anyway.
 

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Ioniq 38
It is a surprise for me that the reason for slow 50 kW charging is that a battery temperature, lower than +27C is making very slow charging for the Ioniq 38.
The battery temperature must normally be +28C or higher before it begins to charge with higher kW.
And in most in European countries, it must be hot summer temperature before the battery temperature after driving is not lower than +28C
The reason for slow 50 kW charging is not too high battery temperature. But the reason is too low battery temperature most of the year after driving before charging

Tesla Bjørn has shown this in one of his many test drives with the Ioniq 38.
 
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