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In my mind it's clearly an effort to cheat their customers.
We all know, EA's fathership is VW. VW = Diesel emissions cheating :) . Is it, like father like son here?. Did the same VW diesel crew design EA logic. LOL.

Jokes aside, without more info or actual logs (like the university project that nailed VW did), in the US, EA is innocent unless proven guilty. I hope some University takes on EV charging as a project and nails EA if they indeed are cheating. On the flip side, EA could be totally innocent because of an innocent release by Hyundai, by engineers not knowing the charge model of EA in advance. So we really don't know who is to blame yet.

Personally I like EA's charge model, but with rapidly changing technologies with no standards does cause a lot of headache. Sadly, its the nature of the beast and the only ones to blame are the early adopters, us.
 

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In my opinion the state of the public charging network is a huge reason to buy a Tesla -- their supercharger network actually works, where as the public network is in a terrible state (at least here in the United States). This "secret handshake" nonsense with EA's chargers sounds criminal. I'm surprised they don't claim it was a split-second 350 kW "secret handshake" just to charge more.
 

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Tesla superchargers are rare on the East Coast, so even Tesla is not on the level at the moment. It all depends on your specific location situation, most places (even EV friendly states) are not like CA.
 

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a huge reason to buy a Tesla
This note gives me flashback to the late 80s and 90s when the consumer reason to buy IBM over others was the front and forward. Its pertinent for for those that have the budget and need no bull. However there is a huge population outside that paradigm that took the the computer way from the IBM monopoly. Yes Apple is an example that keeps its control and Tesla may very well be the Apple of the future.
 

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I did visit a EA facility yesterday and experienced the issue mentioned in this thread. I literally stopped at 57 seconds because I was there just to prove a fact to myself. $1.66 for a wapping 0.7kW !!!

However I observed that the Teslas, BMWs and Audios were just filling up and moving out, Business was booming.

When I called EA customer service to get the remains of the $10 they took out of my card,, they were very polite and mentioned that they were aware of the issue and working with Hyundai to resolve it. Obviously that will not happen tomorrow.

With booming high end EV traffic, from my one trip experience, I don't think EA will push for change.
 

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0.7 kW-hour upstate, NY would cost about 11 cents at home (not accounting for solar panels). Over in Mass, where home rates are higher, maybe 18 cents.

No doubt the infrastructure has some cost. So who pays for it, over how many years?

Or, maybe traveling EV in the U.S. is still just a luxury experience for those willing and able to pay.

There is a poorly placed EA set of four just outside of my nearest city. It's not too useful from our area, because we are only down 20-30 miles by that location. I tried it out for some minutes for $4 just to see how EA boxes work. Three were broken. Only get over that way once in while, but never saw a single car there in 6 months.

One difference in EA and EVgo customer support is that the few times I have had problems with EVgo (before I sold the BOLT), they gave me a free charge session to make up for the inconvenience.
 

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No doubt the infrastructure has some cost. So who pays for it, over how many years?
VW gets to pay for it. It's part of their punishment for dieselgate!

The only thing that EV owners should have to foot the bill for is maintenance and the cost of elec. But that's not the issue. The issue is that paying for a service like energy, based on time, when the delivery rate fluctuates is absurd. Especially when the delivery rate used to determine the unit cost over time was never reached. That's the issue.
 

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I just wanted to add this not as support of EA direct but as an honest evaluation of the situation and presenting facts as I see it. Just being in technology myself and being on the other end of customer (BTW not EV charge space) calls about services I support I want to give a different perspective.

Unlike EvGO, the EA infrastructure, if you notice, has several ABB (the ones in GA are) converters corralled in an open or fenced spaced close to the actual service stacks. That is because each of those units generate up to 350 kW charges and I sent off to the piles (UI and connectors) .EvGo for the most part has a single unit per pile and a single rate. The EvGOs I have used are exclusively 50 kW units.

Judging from EA sophisticated deployment the blame almost exclusively leans towards Hyundai. Case in point, we have an awesome UI to control AC power levels but not DC power levels. Hmm slip shot work? Maybe.

The SAE J1772 standard is simple. Vehicle tells charger what to send and charger sends it. There is no secret communications here. Its standard.

I see the analogy in this thread to people used to riding a camel (us) blaming the Bugatti car (EA) because their seats don't fit as comfortably in the car seats. I think we have to face technology changes with each manufacturer being responsible for its product.

Can Hyundai please upgrade their UI to allow for DC power manipulation. That is truly the issue here.
 

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... The SAE standard is simple. Vehicle tells charger what to send and charger sends it. ...
not to detract from your post, just on this minor point, it is the other way around.

The purpose of the pilot signal is to tell the car how much AC ampacity is available. For example, the mods which allow the OEM charge unit provide L2 charging at "reduced" power, because the EVSE (the charge cord with its box), sends a pilot signal to the car which says to the car, you can draw up to 12A. So, the EVSE tells the car what power is available.

Similarly, a 32A L2 chargepoint EVSE (the box on the wall and the cord with plug) tells the car, you can go ahead and use 7+ kW charging.

The L1 or L2 EVSE between the 240V source and the car (box, cord, and plug) has been described as a glorified relay. There is fault protection, and the circuit that generates the pilot signal, but no means to alter the current flow. The J1772 plug provides 240V to the car, with limitation "rules" (the pilot signal) on how much AC current the charger in the car is permitted to demand for that particular EVSE.

Others have talked about DCFC, I do not recall the details of who tells what based on what information, and how the EA, etc. DCFC box exchanges information with the car.
 

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Others have talked about DCFC, I do not recall the details of who tells what based on what information, and how the EA, etc. DCFC box exchanges information with the car.
J1772 AC (Type 1 Level 1 and 2 ) and DC (CCS), which both relate you us, use the same pilot line to communicate using the Power-line communication technology. However there are two different standards, as apparent in the charger UI. The DC (CCS) standard is newer and has a lot more bidirectional communication. Case in point DC charger UIs have a lot more about the car than Level 2 chargers.

Granted CCS was introduced by the high end car companies and it is possible those companies stuck with the strict standard and but Hyundai cut corners or the Hyundai engineers missed the memo before FW release. Therefore you see EA hubs bustling with high ends like there is no issue and we are all alerting other about EA.
 

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not to detract from your post, just on this minor point, it is the other way around.

Others have talked about DCFC, I do not recall the details of who tells what based on what information, and how the EA, etc. DCFC box exchanges information with the car.
J1772 covers AC, as you so well described, and DC (CCS) that is in question on the original topic. CCS is a newer standard and is definitely a bidirectional communication. The same pilot line is used, however the signalling is very different.
 

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In my opinion the state of the public charging network is a huge reason to buy a Tesla -- their supercharger network actually works, where as the public network is in a terrible state (at least here in the United States). This "secret handshake" nonsense with EA's chargers sounds criminal. I'm surprised they don't claim it was a split-second 350 kW "secret handshake" just to charge more.
The more I read this forum recently overtaken almost fully by EV owners and their problems, the more I feel I did the right decision buying the HEV and staying out of trouble. Oh, the bliss. Fill up in 3 minutes and go 600 miles....
 

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As a European this isn't really my territory, but to me the obvious solution would be to allow the user to choose the tier when starting the charging session. This would make the pricing predictable and independent of what the vehicle reports as a theoretical maximum current.
 

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the obvious solution would be to allow the user to choose the tier when starting the charging session.
I agree, but standards are put in place to eliminate the guess work and make a product/service available to a wide audience. The pain we are incurring and a solution for that would be an extra step for a high end car customer. Why would 80% of customers have to take an extra step to help 20% of the customers.

Another misuse of the choose tier solution would be for a Tesla car that can take 350kW, to park have the car charge in a high parking rate part of town and set the tier to 50kW. Free parking and a low low rate.

All these standards are made with all these possibilities in mind. We are crying just because the Ioniq is not behaving nice.

I know it looks like I am leaning towards EA, but I am leaning towards standards and equality of vendor and consumer.
 

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The possibility to choose the tier wouldn't necessarily mean anyone would have to take the step, but they could if they wanted to. E.g. default to "Auto" and allow the choice of something else.

I agree it opens up the possibility to use lower charging rate for a car that would accept higher rates. But you could also argue that 350 kW being possible shouldn't mean you'd always have to take it. At least in some cases using a lower rate might improve the battery longevity.

In the end I agree it would also annoy me to no end if I had to suffer from the car announcing a higher rate than it will ever actually achieve. But I'd also blame EA for choosing a very difficult pricing structure. I don't know what a Tesla might advertise as it's charging rate, but for sure it's not going to take 350 kW for a long while. Judging from some Supercharger V3 charging curves available online Tesla Model 3, it'll actually drop below 125 kW before reaching 60%. So Tesla users would pay for the highest tier while only being able to use it for a short while. I'd say the system doesn't work for them either. Audi e-Tron apparently charges at around 150 kW up to 80%. Again pretty bad for the pricing. I'm sure others have similar issues.
 

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Looks like a win!


Small win but now prices are 35cents/min with no $1 session charge on Ioniqs and Konas.

This thread was mentioned in the article.
 

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Looks like a win!


Small win but now prices are 35cents/min with no $1 session charge on Ioniqs and Konas.

This thread was mentioned in the article.
I just signed up, "to enroll in the Hyundai Select Plan: download the Electrify America app, select “Premium offers," choose the “Hyundai Select” plan, enter your EV’s VIN, then enter the “HSCharging” enrollment code."

One more step, be sure the Hyundai plan is your default plan! Even after signing up, my old plan was still set as the default plan.
 

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Looks like a win!


Small win but now prices are 35cents/min with no $1 session charge on Ioniqs and Konas.
The minor little correction that EA made, still misses the mark entirely, and that is, billing should be for energy, and not time! Until they make that change, unless you can charge at the max rate until the end, you'll get screwed. Unless they drop the fees to about 5c/min.
 
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