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Well, you guys in CA will be happy now.
 

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That's a positive change. I guess it's time to contact my state reps in Oregon, and my parents reps in Washington state where I actually use DCFC stations.
 

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Anyone have more recent experiences with Electrify America? I am planning a road trip from Maryland to North Carolina and am hoping for the best. Because the EA chargers are every 70 miles I would get the Pass+ that is $4 and gets you 20-30% off the per minute rates. I tested it out in November and my max draw was 61kw but I only did it for 3 minutes, it was a test! 52 cents because they charged $0.15/min because it was a new station and they were testing it too. Every station was rated at 50kw.

Wanted to see if anyone has tried this more recently on a 2017-2019 Ioniq. I may test again to see how long it takes from 30% to 94% to time it and see if I have any issues.
 

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Wanted to see if anyone has tried this more recently on a 2017-2019 Ioniq. I may test again to see how long it takes from 30% to 94% to time it and see if I have any issues.
Don't forget the IONIQ tapers quite dramatically from 80% on wards. If there is a time cost to the fee, it might be worth while stopping at 80%. I generally try to go from 20% to 80% where that makes sense and it only takes 20 to 25 mins. ;)
 

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You're going to pay based on the 75-125kW tier. I would suggest only filling to about 78%, like @Ou Boet said, its the most efficient way. This is my log from 4 freeway trips of about 260mi from Portland, OR to northern Washington.

Related to the charge rate performance:
  • First fill on 11/23/19 from 59-90%, charge rate was 0.716kWh/min.
  • First fill on 12/28/19 from 54-79%, charge rate was 1.014kWh/min.
The last line of each day is a fill at the destination (the two in blue are manual entry based on actual fill from my logging equipment at home, the two in black are computed from estimated kWh per %; blue is manual entry, black is computed).

31519


I would strongly suggest using ABRP for your trip planning. I find it close to pretty close to accurate for consumption - conditions matter a fair amount. It's less accurate for fill speed in my experience, but it's not THAT far off. The cause is fill conditions - battery temp, temp outside, etc. Weather was pretty decent for winter in the PNW, but the return trip from Lacey to Portland on both trips were pretty crappy, and the ABRP estimate was optimistic - that's also a stretch I can consistently speed on which doesn't help the estimate either.

I'd try to keep your usable range between maybe 15~78%. You can run it lower, and clearly I do, but I don't really feel comfortable with it being in the 5-10% range! I use 10% as my range in ABRP, and if it's cold out, I think I may use 15% next time.

ABRP has a blog post related to the Ioniq 28kWh charging curve. The top/max charging "shelf" is on a 100kW+ charger and the middle "shelf" is on a 50kW charger. See Jason's post for more info. The below image is from ABRP and is not my data. Hopefully they're OK with me using it and citing it!
 

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I would definitely be in the EA 75-125 tier? I checked ABRP and the EA stop they are showing 43% gain (12kWh) for $3.25.

This looks like they are basing this on $1 charge + 10 mins at 25 cents.

Do you have any receipts showing the max tier?

Walmart 2438 - Stafford, VA [Electrify America]43%86%00:10$3.2501:24134 k
 

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ABRP is using the tier you SHOULD be in, not what you WILL be in.

I have all the receipts, of course. Digital FTW. The website shows the tier but doesn't show the max charging rate, while the email shows the max charging rate and has better kWh precision. I am only going to post one screencap from the site as the email shows more useful data in a more condensed format - but sadly it is missing the tier you are charged in, and the starting SOC. I don't feel like pulling it off the site. They really need a better/more condensed UI, it sucks that we have passed peak UI... I should note, the EA starting/ending SOC matches the on board SOC perfectly, during the charge it may be off by a couple %.

It's interesting how my plan is for 1-125kW, but their web receipt says "Max power level 150.00 kW". See screencaps.

I still use EA over EVgo - more chargers at each site so less chance of needing a tow or having to wait for an hour while someone has dinner and charges their big battery car. Plus the EA chargers saves me ~24min for ~$5 more over the course of the drive. Seems well worth it for me. I'm really looking forward to a 60-90kWh battery vehicle when my super cheap lease is up in 2022. I love the Ioniq and charging on trips is not a big deal (my dog and I like to stop and use the bathroom, eat, etc., and I hate eating while driving...), but I'm looking forward to more range.

Email receipts for the last trip:
Snip of "max power level" and "charging cost" from last session (not sure how to square the circle between those two and the plan):
Plan page showing costs on the Pass+ -- you can deactivate the plan and keep using it for the rest of the month, makes it easy to not forget to cancel:
 

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I signed up for the Pass+ on my road trip from Maryland to North Carolina. 315 Miles or so trip each way - had to stop 4 times. Charged to 85% and got down to 15-25%. Was not that bad. Driving 75-80mph for 70 miles I was getting closer to 3.3mpge which did concern me, but it was around 40degrees F. I am thinking for 300 mile road trips a car with 240 driving miles + 120kW charging speed (20minutes for 20-80% that would be great).

Went to 8 Stations, 5 Unique:

Stafford, VA (Charged me the 1-125kW rate) Both Directions
Richmond, VA (Charged me the 1-75kW rate) Both Directions
Emporia, VA (Charged me the 1-125kW rate) Both Directions
Rocky Mount, NC (Charged me the 1-125kW rate) Trip down
Henderson, NC (Charged me the 1-125kW rate) Return Trip

Every charger was 150kW except for the Emporia, VA one, that was 350kW. That was nerve wracking. Going 300 miles and the EA station only had one operable stall.

I talked to EA for way too long on the car ride. The "handshake" which determines what tier you are in is decided when you plug in. At all locations I was able to get the information the car told EA it was 82kW. At the Richmond location, the car told EA 67kW. Why would their hardware/software have conflicting information.

Max charging rates:
64.6kW (Henderson, NC)
67.38kW, 65.65kW (Emporia, VA)
66.73kW, 65.1kW (Richmond, VA)
64.56kW, 65.69kW (Stafford, VA)
64.77kW (Rocky Mount, NC)

Total trip cost was 45.74 + $4 for the Pass+ so 49.74. I am hopeful that EA changes all my 42 cents a minute charges down to 15 cents a minute and then the trip would be under $20 which would be great for 600+ miles.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Thanks for the detailed information. It agrees with my initial review. I was hoping EA has resolved the 82/65kW glitch by now. Based on my experience I would not expect EA to reduce your charge; although, I would think they should.
I had to read your trip report several times before I realized you made a round trip. I had initially believed you were transporting and residing in NC and I was no longer (apparently) the only Ioniq EV in NC.
For my trip down from the dealer in October I wasn't totally aware of EA as a option. I set up a Charge Point account and planned to charge at a EvGo in Northern VA using roaming. My ChargePoint account number in the app wasn't fully set up for roaming. I called EvGo and the CS rep comped me a free 45 minute charge. That is one of the many reasons I prefer EvGo as my choice for DC fast chargers. The rest of the trip was on Charge Point level 2. A short add at a restricted site in Fredricksburg, VA; long 4 hour+ charge in Richmond including Lunch. I didn't figure I could make the leg between Richmond,VA and Henderson,NC (New car range anxiety) and thought Emporia, VA only was for Tesla. So I went by Roanoke Rapids free charge and due to crappy rainy weather decided to stay over night and fully charge. Then continue via Henderson, Hillsborough, Greensboro, short top off in Winston-Salem the a long trek through the back country arriving home with 10 miles left.
Being a old man with time and talent on my hands the extra day was not an issue. My charging cost was $0 for the trip. Extra night motel and etc. probably around $75, so using EA would have probably been a day quicker and slightly lower cost.
 

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I should try calling EA again. The more we harass them, the better the odds are they correct it...

@DocMiller - Check out ABRP. It should solve your range anxiety.
 

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Update:
Hyundai wants me to contact the service department to see if they can look into it. Not sure what a local dealership is going to do. I feel like this should be a software update for all of the 2017-2019's.

Electrify America - they said my Tier 1 charge was a mistake so I have ruined 15 cents/minute (1-75kW) charging at the Richmond, VA location, sorry!
 

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Update:
Hyundai wants me to contact the service department to see if they can look into it. Not sure what a local dealership is going to do. I feel like this should be a software update for all of the 2017-2019's.

Electrify America - they said my Tier 1 charge was a mistake so I have ruined 15 cents/minute (1-75kW) charging at the Richmond, VA location, sorry!
Cute! Hyundai told me to contact EA!
Thank you for your patience with Hyundai Motor America. We are pleased to inform you that an update to your case is ready.

Customer satisfaction is one of Hyundai's top priorities. We have completed the research for your inquiry on the maximum kW accepted from a DC charger for your Ioniq EV.

Ioniq Electric vehicles have a 28-kWh lithium-ion battery pack that is located beneath the rear seat. It travels 124 miles on a charge. Using a Level 3 DC fast charger, the Ioniq can reach 80 percent of its charge within 23 minutes. A full recharge from a 240-volt charger takes about 4.5 hours.

We recommend to contact Electrify America for further assistance.
Bolding mine. I don't see where they answered the damn question.
 

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I may be wrong but I think this issue is a Hyundai BMS issue. Here is why

Per Hyundai user manual

Fast Charge (if equipped):
- 50 kw charger : Takes about 30
minutes at room temperature
when charged to 80%.
- 100 kw charger : Takes about 23
minutes at room temperature
when charged to 80%.

Based on 30 min for 50kW and 23 min not 15 minutes for 100kW, makes we think that internal to the BMS here is a max @ about 75kW. So not sure why the BMS would even requested for 85kW when it would not use it anyway.

On personal experiences with various chargers and looking @ the ChargePoint app graphs of charges I do see that different chargers (makes and models) within the same company vary. On some chargers I see the kW drop after 50% charger in a neat manor without the cooling fan kicking in while in others it occurs @ a higher SOC %.

I will check EA this weekend and share my experience. I suspect I will have a different experience.
 

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I agree why EA charges us for the 75+ tier is a problem with the BMS reporting the wrong draw, and it sucks. However, the real issue is no regulation and EA is able to charge us for time vs consumption. I have a dozen receipts that all show a max of no more than ~68kW, I'd much prefer to pay for what I draw and how fast I draw it at vs the time I sit there.

I talked to EA after my last charge, they said tough luck, your car reports 80-something.

Write your lawmakers.
 

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I agree why EA charges us for the 75+ tier is a problem with the BMS reporting the wrong draw, and it sucks.
I see another thread related to the BMS that is begging Hyundai to update the BMS for a 80% shutoff on DCFC. (https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/battery-charging-management-petition.35004/unread)

I think If the mountain won't come to you, you must go to the mountain. Thinking out loud, it would be cool to have a "man in the middle" J1772 Type 1 CCS device that actually talks to both the car and charger but sends values that are configured by the owner and not the car.

If we have such a device it would for instance request a shutdown @ 80%or even 73% for the folk on the battery-charging-management-petition. And also say tell EA chargers to send 50kW or 75kW and not 85kW.

This concept is fairly easy to develop but I dont have the J1772 level expertise. I wish someone on this forum does and could develop one.
 

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I agree why EA charges us for the 75+ tier is a problem with the BMS reporting the wrong draw, and it sucks.
I see another thread related to the BMS that is begging Hyundai to update the BMS for a 80% shutoff on DCFC. (https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/battery-charging-management-petition.35004/unread)

I think If the mountain won't come to you, you must go to the mountain. Thinking out loud, it would be cool to have a "man in the middle" J1772 Type 1 CCS device that actually talks to both the car and charger but sends values that are configured by the owner and not the car.

If we have such a device it would for instance request a shutdown @ 80%or even 73% for the folk on the battery-charging-management-petition. And also say tell EA chargers to send 50kW or 75kW and not 85kW.

This concept is fairly easy to develop but I dont have the J1772 level expertise. I wish someone on this forum does and could develop one.
 

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"man in the middle" J1772 Type 1 CCS device that actually talks to both the car and charger but sends values that are configured by the owner and not the car.
Similar concept to the Tesla J1772 adapter but with a user controllable negotiation parameter capability.
 

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Discussion Starter #38
I agree why EA charges us for the 75+ tier is a problem with the BMS reporting the wrong draw, and it sucks.
Do you have any information to support that other than the EA Customer Service Agent Talking point?
My issue with their Secret communication protocol is there is NO way to verify communication during what they say is the "Handshake Protocol". The EA transaction receipt as you, I, and others have stated shows the IONIQ BMS told the charger it has a maximum rate of 64kW, and the charger actually provides less, (if you watch the display). I did read somewhere, (don't remember where or if valid information), that the issue is differences in interpretation of the handshake protocol. It doesn't seem to be a issue with any charging company other than EA. Perhaps our friends on the Right Side of the Big Pond could add their experiences or issues with European 100+kW charging stations.
In any event for Hyundai to provide a modification would require a dealer software update and require a long time to fully implement.
If Electrify America actually wanted their chargers used by Lowly Hyundai Ioniq Electric Vehicles they could very easily provide a software update to their chargers over their network and have it corrected immediately. It can't really be about making extra profit by ripping off customers as they spend more money handling our Complaints to Customer Service than they received.
I understand also that $1 per session and $.48/min is a good buy in some peoples minds for the convenience of the EA system. They do Display the cost of charge before starting and give the option of taking our business elsewhere leaving their row of empty charges for more desirable customers.
 

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I understand also that $1 per session and $.48/min is a good buy in some peoples minds for the convenience of the EA system. They do Display the cost of charge before starting and give the option of taking our business elsewhere leaving their row of empty charges for more desirable customers.
The problem with their rate structure is that although it's known and published, the cost of a charge is not unknown, even if I know exactly how much energy I will take. This is because charging speed is affected by things like battery temp. If I get to the charger and my battery is 24 deg C and not 25 deg C, then my charging speed is cut to 35(ish) kWh regardless of handshake protocol or fast charge speed. Their cost remains fixed, they supply me with and will pay the utility for a known quantity of energy. But my time is doubled or tripled so I'll pay double or triple. It's ridiculous. The display provides all the information required (Volts, Amps and Time) to implement kWh measurement and billing. Further more the thing that determines the billing rate is based on a handshake protocol and not an actual reading. It's a double whammy.

In my mind it's clearly an effort to cheat their customers. Thankfully they're not the only gig in town so when I can, I will use other networks.
 

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I understand also that $1 per session and $.48/min is a good buy in some peoples minds for the convenience of the EA system. They do Display the cost of charge before starting and give the option of taking our business elsewhere leaving their row of empty charges for more desirable customers.
The problem with their rate structure is that although it's known and published, the cost of a charge is not unknown, even if I know exactly how much energy I will take. This is because charging speed is affected by things like battery temp. If I get to the charger and my battery is 24 deg C and not 25 deg C, then my charging speed is cut to 35(ish) kWh regardless of handshake protocol or fast charge speed. Their cost remains fixed, they supply me with and will pay the utility for a known quantity of energy. But my time is doubled or tripled so I'll pay double or triple. It's ridiculous. The display provides all the information required (Volts, Amps and Time) to implement kWh measurement and billing. Further more the thing that determines the billing rate is based on a handshake protocol and not an actual reading. It's a double whammy.

In my mind it's clearly an effort to cheat their customers. Thankfully they're not the only gig in town so when I can, I will use other networks.
 
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