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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A typical workaday week around here involves a mix of shorter urban/suburban trips that, in a PHEV, sometimes consume zero gasoline if fewer than 30 or so kilometres. But we also make a weekly 150-to-200 kilometre round trip to visit family, so it’s never an option to drive all week on electricity alone.

One of the knocks against PHEVs is that once you do exceed the electric range, the PHEV’s greater mass makes it thirstier than a conventional self-charging hybrid.
Link: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/dri...-ioniq-puts-its-electrical-range-to-the-test/ (The Globe and Mail Inc, CA)
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Why BEV is not an option? Don't get it.
The article is about driving a PHEV and comparing it to a HEV, not choosing model variant.
 

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The writer mentioned BEV was not an option as he needed to do 150-200km weekly trip. The issue is that as long as the destination or in between have charging facilities, a BEV could have been a viable option.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The writer mentioned BEV was not an option as he needed to do 150-200km weekly trip. The issue is that as long as the destination or in between have charging facilities, a BEV could have been a viable option.
Read again:
We’ve driven enough plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) by now to appreciate their gas-saving virtues in close-to-home driving. So far this year, recharging every night, I’ve averaged 2.8 litres/100 km in a Honda Clarity, 4.1 in a Ford Fusion Energi and 5.0 in a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (plus, of course, the electricity to recharge them – which in our house all comes from renewable sources).

A typical workaday week around here involves a mix of shorter urban/suburban trips that, in a PHEV, sometimes consume zero gasoline if fewer than 30 or so kilometres. But we also make a weekly 150-to-200 kilometre round trip to visit family, so it’s never an option to drive all week on electricity alone.

One of the knocks against PHEVs is that once you do exceed the electric range, the PHEV’s greater mass makes it thirstier than a conventional self-charging hybrid.
All this is about a PHEV and PHEV only.
 

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I just completed a 1600 km round trip through the mountains of British Columbia.
left with a a full charge and a full tank. Set the car in HEV mode at the start, and still had a full charge after
the first leg of 716 km and 1/4 tank of gas left. the trip computer said it was about 3.4 L/100.
drove around that town in EV mode until I topped up the charge to full before we left, topped up the tank
to full. Set the car to HEV again and did 869 Km home at about 3.9 L/100.

My next trek I may try starting in EV mode and let it switch to HEV. then Charge at the mid-point and return the same way.

I love this car...
 

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I just completed a 1600 km round trip through the mountains of British Columbia.
left with a a full charge and a full tank. Set the car in HEV mode at the start, and still had a full charge after
the first leg of 716 km and 1/4 tank of gas left. the trip computer said it was about 3.4 L/100.
drove around that town in EV mode until I topped up the charge to full before we left, topped up the tank
to full. Set the car to HEV again and did 869 Km home at about 3.9 L/100.

My next trek I may try starting in EV mode and let it switch to HEV. then Charge at the mid-point and return the same way.

I love this car...
My preference for long trips (assuming I can charge at both ends of a trip) is to start in EV mode, and switch to HEV mode when I get to the highway. If I get into heavy traffic, I switch back to EV mode. Once I get past traffic, and am cruising at the limit again, I revert to HEV mode. As I near my destination, I switch back to EV mode.

My rationale for this is simple (although I admit it may be misguided!)... I have observed (in my 2 months/4000 km of ownership) that the battery depletes more quickly at highway speed than in city driving. The ICE is more efficient at highway speeds, without the stop/start of city driving. This methodology also makes room in the battery for regenerative braking. Ideally, I finish with only a few km left on the battery, charge it up, and repeat.

A recent trip using this method returned a reported 3.9l/100km over 250km of driving on mostly rural (90km/hr) roads, with some city (EV mode) and 100km ofhighway (100km/hr) mixed in.

Any other 'drive plans' out there?

ChrisP
 

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Interesting article and real world experience/posts. I'm currently considering buying the PHEV version of the Ioniq.
Check the operating economies most carefully. The extra cost of the PHEV may simply not be worth it... I
t wasn't for me, until I got the deal from my dealer that got me a PHEV for the same price as a HEV! :nerd:
 

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Another article written buy a `journalist` who clearly doesn't understand the operating economics of a PHEV, much like several American users on this board (I can see where they get their misunderstandings from though...).

I regularly (and I mean weekly) do a 180-mile round trip to my mothers and back and have never EVER recharged on the journey (and only refueling when the car indicates it doesn't have the fuel range). I won't use my mum's electricity to charge my car.
Now, I DO start with a full battery (recharge at home before I leave) but have never used `all` the battery in either of the 90-mile legs - in fact the last couple of trips with warmer weather I have arrived with a full battery, less the last few miles which I always do on battery mode.
I have never used ALL the battery, and have never dropped into HEV-mode... :laugh:

I regularly see 80 mpg over the journey - fast A-roads, the odd bit of motorway and some B-roads.
I never saw better than 65 mpg when doing the exact-same journey in my HEV...

I honestly don't know where these journalists get their ideas from? Back of a cereal packet maybe? :confused:

The only bit in the article I partially agree with - and would alert our American brethren to read was:
Sure, the PHEV is lugging around a heavier battery pack, but said bigger battery also means it can more often shut down the gas engine and run on electrons alone, even after the initial plug-in charge is used up.
I have only once `used up` the plug-in charge, so I really don't know that they know what they're on about..? Is it because they're Canadian..? :laugh:
 

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Now, I DO start with a full battery (recharge at home before I leave) but have never used `all` the battery in either of the 90-mile legs - in fact the last couple of trips with warmer weather I have arrived with a full battery, less the last few miles which I always do on battery mode.
I have never used ALL the battery, and have never dropped into HEV-mode...
Lets do the math. 29 miles or so of EV range and a 90 mile trip. Never in HEV mode? Rubbish. Why do you keep spouting nonsense? My nationality has little to do with understanding simple math and physics. Does yours?
 

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Lets do the math. 29 miles or so of EV range and a 90 mile trip. Never in HEV mode? Rubbish. Why do you keep spouting nonsense? My nationality has little to do with understanding simple math and physics. Does yours?

Clearly you do not understand exactly how the PHEV works. I do not profess to either as, like you, I do not own one, however I do think comments and knowledge from PHEV owners have merit, especially in the case of Simon Evens as he has now owned both a HEV and a PHEV so is well positioned to make reliable meaningful comparrasons. Other members have also reported mpg's in line with Simon Evens.



This is taken from another thread and explains how a PHEV works :- No doubt once you have a better understanding of HOW the `PHEV` works you can work out for yourself average MPG.
You erroneously assume that the battery will discharge. It won't. It will recharge on the journey, at least partially, as the ICE and battery work together to provide power

The `confusion` to this is IF you do allow the battery to deplete, it will lock into Hybrid mode- not `running out` but limiting functionality and battery capacity to that of a Hybrid until you actually plug the car in to recharge.
So in this mode you STILL have battery assistance, but somewhat more limited.
The battery does NOT `run out`in normal use...

The driver can limit this effect by simply recharging or regenerating before the battery drops below the 15-20% charge rate at which the Hybrid mode kicks- in.

I got 60+mpg in hybrid mode, 80+ mpg in full-PHEV to give you an answer. Therefore your worst case scenario is if you stupidly allow the car to drop into Hybrid mode, as I did, you will still get 60 mpg.

Hope this helps?


Simon Evans
2018 Pearl White PHEV
gone is the 2017 Premium SE Hybrid Black - good riddance to that corporate signwriting!



I would suggest a bit of research before sprouting off.;)
 

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No question that if you don't take plug in charges into account that a PHEV can get unlimited "mpg". Not debating that at all. However, Simon keeps making ridiculous statements about the PHEV in hybrid mode getting significantly better mpg than the HEV. That is just not possible without using charged power (which would be a rational explanation). Goes against logic, government rating scores, and actual driver reports of long trips without plugging in. In one post he says the extra weight PHEV is insignificant, and in another that carrying an extra 90 pounds of freight results in a large drop in mpg.

The above comment you quoted is self explanatory. Happy to give the benefit of the doubt, but posts denying science cannot stand unchallenged. Then we are off to flat earthers and climate change deniers.
 

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This discussion is totally pointless unless you can make comparisons based on comparing vehicles doing the same trip at the same time. You also have to allow for the mileage covered and for the usage of EV before the PHEV switches to Hybrid.

Easy to make that comparison between HEV and difficult to do that against a PHEV. The best comparison would be a PHEV with the battery down to about 70% so that it can then be driven as hybrid, and should then be comparable to a HEV since you have eliminated the option for pure EV unless you want it. With the battery full, even in hybrid it will use the battery in preference.

The next question is whether a PHEV running in hybrid at 70% battery is comparable to one with the battery down to about 20%, and therefore forced into hybrid. In either case, the ICE will recharge the battery to a point that the system will decide to run on EV until the battery drops to a point that the ICE is needed to recharge it.

Final question - what is the impact of being able to run on pure EV. For short trips, it will decimate your MPG because you won't use very much petrol. For long trips, as the trip becomes longer, that impact will gradually decline and will tend towards the result of running as hybrid.

And, as a last point, the PHEV has a larger battery, and therefore it can further on EV. Equally, that battery needs to be recharged by the ICE and that will require more petrol, and, of course, you can always recharge the battery, either at home, work, hotel, car park etc. just the same as you need to put petrol into the tank.
 

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This discussion is totally pointless unless you can make comparisons based on comparing vehicles doing the same trip at the same time. You also have to allow for the mileage covered and for the usage of EV before the PHEV switches to Hybrid.

Easy to make that comparison between HEV and difficult to do that against a PHEV. The best comparison would be a PHEV with the battery down to about 70% so that it can then be driven as hybrid, and should then be comparable to a HEV since you have eliminated the option for pure EV unless you want it. With the battery full, even in hybrid it will use the battery in preference.

The next question is whether a PHEV running in hybrid at 70% battery is comparable to one with the battery down to about 20%, and therefore forced into hybrid. In either case, the ICE will recharge the battery to a point that the system will decide to run on EV until the battery drops to a point that the ICE is needed to recharge it.

Final question - what is the impact of being able to run on pure EV. For short trips, it will decimate your MPG because you won't use very much petrol. For long trips, as the trip becomes longer, that impact will gradually decline and will tend towards the result of running as hybrid.

And, as a last point, the PHEV has a larger battery, and therefore it can further on EV. Equally, that battery needs to be recharged by the ICE and that will require more petrol, and, of course, you can always recharge the battery, either at home, work, hotel, car park etc. just the same as you need to put petrol into the tank.
All correct until the very end. It does NOT use more petrol to charge the battery. The ICE can recharge at low rpm whether moving the car or not. In addition, the battery also replenishes to a limited extent from regeneration, irregardless of operation of ICE. These two factors, along with the larger overall charge capacity of the PHEV motor satisfactorily explains the additional mileage of the PHEV over the HEV, when both are driven economically.

As I have the results, I don't have to explain them. What does need explanation is the transfixion of others ideas in the face of the evidence of the spuriousness of their theory.
But my father always taught me to not argue with fools, they wear you down with stupidity...
Mark Twain too, said something similar.
I take that as reason enough not to argue with Yticolev, who it will be noted has taken it upon himself to recompile and reinterpret what I have said and continue to say, about the use of the PHEV.

The proof is that a PHEV with a charged and recharging battery does get better MPG than a HEV, according to my recent experience with BOTH HEV and PHEV.
Something which Yticolev does not to possess. Something that hillcf has grasped and explained almost perfectly.
 
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