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Discussion Starter #1
So it's been a week since I am a proud owner of Ioniq PHEV, still enjoying it, however I am unsure about some stuff when it comes to DSG. And the reason for this is this is my first car with auto gearbox. Since 1995 I have always driven manuals :). And sadly user manual is not very clear on some matters, thus I would appreciate if you could share your thoughts.

1) Is it ok to shift from D to N, without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery, for instance while waiting for traffic lights change? Do I need to press brake pedal before shifting to N?
2) Is it ok to shift from N to D, without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery, for instance when traffic lights just changed? Do I need to press brake pedal before shifting to D?
3) Is it ok to shift from R to D (through N), without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery? Do I need to press brake before pedal shifting to N->D?
4) Is it OK to keep car on D, while waiting for traffic lights change and apply foot brake (I mean the handbrake in normal cars :)) rather than keep my foot on brake pedal?

Thanks everyone for your input ;)
 

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In the handbook is a diagram showing when you need to press the button or footbrake before you are able to move transmission lever.
I find it natural to press the button whenever I shift but that's just me. I also tend to apply footbrake to stop any tendency for the car to creep when engaging drive or reverse. Rather than hold on the brake at traffic lights etc I put the transmission in Park and don't bother with the parking footbrake.
Hope this makes sense, others may have different ideas which suit you better.
 

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Below is my answer, it might not matches with the others’. Just what I do

1) Is it ok to shift from D to N, without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery, for instance while waiting for traffic lights change? Do I need to press brake pedal before shifting to N?

Ok to shift from D to N without pressing the button on the lever. However, NOT ok to shift while not stationary. Thus, shifting while NOT pressing the brake pedal is not a good idea (because the car will be not in stationary)

2) Is it ok to shift from N to D, without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery, for instance when traffic lights just changed? Do I need to press brake pedal before shifting to D?

Ok to shift from N to D without pressing the button on the lever stick and ok to shift without press the brake pedal. However, NOT ok to shift while not stationary

3) Is it ok to shift from R to D (through N), without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery? Do I need to press brake before pedal shifting to N->D?

Yes, it is ok to shift from R to D while not to pressing the button on the lever. However, the car should be stationary while shifting. Thus, you can NOT shift from R to D with out pressing the brake pedal.

4) Is it OK to keep car on D, while waiting for traffic lights change and apply foot brake (I mean the handbrake in normal cars :)) rather than keep my foot on brake pedal?

It is OK, but Not recommend. If you have to stop (for more than 30 seconds, in my opinion) you should shift to N. Make sure the car is completely stopped before doing so.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
In the handbook is a diagram showing when you need to press the button or footbrake before you are able to move transmission lever.
I find it natural to press the button whenever I shift but that's just me. I also tend to apply footbrake to stop any tendency for the car to creep when engaging drive or reverse. Rather than hold on the brake at traffic lights etc I put the transmission in Park and don't bother with the parking footbrake.
Hope this makes sense, others may have different ideas which suit you better.
This makes sense. I have seen the diagram but it is sort of inconsistent for me (when you red what I underlined in red)



So it shows flow R>N>D as freely operate but then it says I have to depress the brake pedal for the vehicle to stand still. Whereas it does make perfect sense and the same applies for manual (you need to stop vehicle before going from forward to reverse), I am trying to establish if this is the only reason (we do not want car wheels rotating).

Also, is it fine then to keep car in N, lets say car is a on small slope and I move shifter to D while wheels are rotating in the direction of driving. This is perfectly fine and should be fine with DCT/DSG as well but I prefer to ask :).

I also use footbrake to stop creeping BUT is it safe for the gearbox? You can see that car first tries to drive, the back of the car goes up and then it gives up, so it seems to me it is fine but I would appreciate more peoples opinions on this.

Anyway - thanks for yours!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Below is my answer, it might not matches with the others’. Just what I do

1) Is it ok to shift from D to N, without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery, for instance while waiting for traffic lights change? Do I need to press brake pedal before shifting to N?

Ok to shift from D to N without pressing the button on the lever. However, NOT ok to shift while not stationary. Thus, shifting while NOT pressing the brake pedal is not a good idea (because the car will be not in stationary)
Why it is not OK. I understand at a speed (manual mentions this) but if car is slowly moving forward?

2) Is it ok to shift from N to D, without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery, for instance when traffic lights just changed? Do I need to press brake pedal before shifting to D?

Ok to shift from N to D without pressing the button on the lever stick and ok to shift without press the brake pedal. However, NOT ok to shift while not stationary
Same here - why it is not OK if car is not stationary?

3) Is it ok to shift from R to D (through N), without pressing a button on gear lever stick, being stationery? Do I need to press brake before pedal shifting to N->D?

Yes, it is ok to shift from R to D while not to pressing the button on the lever. However, the car should be stationary while shifting. Thus, you can NOT shift from R to D with out pressing the brake pedal.

4) Is it OK to keep car on D, while waiting for traffic lights change and apply foot brake (I mean the handbrake in normal cars :)) rather than keep my foot on brake pedal?

It is OK, but Not recommend. If you have to stop (for more than 30 seconds, in my opinion) you should shift to N. Make sure the car is completely stopped before doing so.
Any particular reason why it's not recommended to keep on D and footbrake?
 

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Why it is not OK. I understand at a speed (manual mentions this) but if car is slowly moving forward?



Same here - why it is not OK if car is not stationary?



Any particular reason why it's not recommended to keep on D and footbrake?
all 3 protect the clutches in the DSG from excessive wear and drive train shocks

if you shift from D > N or N > D you are changing the load on the clutches and drive train without the engine / gearbox computers matching the speeds either side of the DSG clutches

I find if I sit at a stop without putting the car in neutral after a number of stop starts (around London) I start to get a smell of burning friction material, so I assume there may be some slippage when stopped
 

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Dsg makes me think of Volkswagen and borgwarner.Maybe thats just me.
I assume there is no cluth slipping in phev when starting. This because the electric motor puts the car in motion even if the ice is running.
 

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Dsg makes me think of Volkswagen and borgwarner.Maybe thats just me.
I assume there is no cluth slipping in phev when starting. This because the electric motor puts the car in motion even if the ice is running.
I have only noticed this - not sure why I titled it DSG :). However we all know I meant dual clutch transmission - sorry for the confusion.

This is another matter. I cannot find anywhere explanation how DCT works where you have ICE and electrical motor...
 

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Discussion Starter #9
all 3 protect the clutches in the DSG from excessive wear and drive train shocks

if you shift from D > N or N > D you are changing the load on the clutches and drive train without the engine / gearbox computers matching the speeds either side of the DSG clutches

I find if I sit at a stop without putting the car in neutral after a number of stop starts (around London) I start to get a smell of burning friction material, so I assume there may be some slippage when stopped
I am assuming creeping in DCT/DSG is artificial, thus I can understand why there is a slippage in clutches when car is stationary.

However I cannot see any clutch slippage when shifting from N > D... maybe something fron D >N... I do not know - thus asking here ;).
 

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I havent invesigated, but the motors have to be very aware of how fast the gearbox input shaft rotates.The engagement is so smooth.Where is the electric motor even?I'm not sure if the force from the electric motor goes throug the clutch at all.I know there are systems where the electric motor is fixed to the input shaft.
 

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@Sven

yes the motor and ICE can transmit power through the DCT together

this can be seen on the energy flow on the media unit / dashboard displays, as you can see power from both the ICE and battery going to the wheels, it is how the hybrid system supplements the ICE power with electric power to reduce the need for more fuel to be used and keep consumption down

the drive train is

ICE > engine clutch > Electric Motor > DCT clutches > DCT gearbox > Wheels

this allows the ICE to be removed from the drivetrain using the engine clutch so it can be shut down in EV mode
 

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Why it is not OK. I understand at a speed (manual mentions this) but if car is slowly moving forward?



Same here - why it is not OK if car is not stationary?



Any particular reason why it's not recommended to keep on D and footbrake?
Shifting while moving abruptly alter the load, cause the computer to compensate with abruptly force, thus more tear and ware.

You can try this. While the car is slowly moving in D (more likely it will be in EV mode) shift to N. The ICE will kicked in to compensate the change.

You can also try this. From a completely stopped on a down hill in N, let off the brake, the car starting to moving forward slowly, now shift to D. You will notice the force shaking you back and forth before the computer figured out what to do.
 

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Ok, thanks!I have to think about this or investigate.Im confused, in my mind there seems to be to many clutches.

I wonder about two other things.

Is there a clutch for the starter motor also?

When driving in ev mode the ice can idle high and charge. What does it charge with if the electric engine is propelling, and can not therefore charge?
 

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the start is continuous belt driven, so when the ICE is running the starter / generator is turning

the starter generator runs off the high voltage traction battery, so the traction battery starts the ICE , and it charges the high voltage / traction battery

the 12v battery is charged from the traction battery by a DC-DC convertor which steps down the high voltage (240v HEV, 360v PHEV) to 12v
 

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Ok, thanks!I have to think about this or investigate.Im confused, in my mind there seems to be to many clutches.

I wonder about two other things.

Is there a clutch for the starter motor also?

When driving in ev mode the ice can idle high and charge. What does it charge with if the electric engine is propelling, and can not therefore charge?
There are 3 clutches in the ioniq (HEV and PHEV)
1.DCT odd gear clutch
2.DCT even gear clutch
3.Engine clutch

As @bluecar1 said the Hybrid Starter/Generator (HSG) is permanently connected to the ICE by the HSG belt. In EV mode the ICE can idle and charge the battery through the HSG.
 

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The Pictures explains a lot, thank you.I think it is a heavy duty starting system.What might the power of the starter/alternator be?
 
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