Where are you located? Never heard of that type of service. Suggest you contact your EvSE vendor.

 

It doesn't matter where we are. That's what we have and we need sensible technical advice. I have asked many EVSE suppliers. The only one that accepts 2-phase supply is the TESLA Gen3 EVSE, which is fine - the version sold here has a type 2 Mennekes connector which will fit the IONIQ 5. I need to know how the IONIQ 5 will handle this.

If you must know we are in New Zealand. 2-phase supply to a house is not common but not rare either. All-electric households that have electric hot water heating as well as an induction hob and a self-cleaning oven are sometimes fed with 2-phase power to spread the switchboard loading. As you have never heard of such a 2-phase system it is perhaps best if you leave those who do know to answer my question and provide the help I require.

 

Are we talking about split phase ( offset frequency between two hot wires)?
Im working for Hyundai for North America market.
You will have to find part number for ICCU unit and i will use my portal to figure out if unit and software is set for this type of connection.
Is this import from another market to your place, or official product designed by Hyundai for your market?
Regarding Tesla, it has ability to work at 277 V per phase..... Some Tesla EVSE units in US if powered by 2 split phase 277V each will only work with Tesla, any other EV will error out and not allow charging.

 

We are talking about not offset frequency but offset phase. There is 120° phase difference between the 2 phases giving 400VAC between them and 230VAC between each one individually and Neutral. So the system we have is a 3-phase WYE with one phase missing. It is a 3-wire system - 2 phase wires and a Neutral.
It is more expensive to install the wiring for 2-phase as opposed to single phase, but if it means that I can charge 2-phase at 10.5kW as opposed to single phase of 7kW, then it will be worth the extra.
The car is an official Hyundai IONIQ 5 for the New Zealand market. The local Hyundai outfit have been less than helpful in this matter.
How would you suggest that I find the part number for the ICCU?

 

Despite having lived here in New Zealand half my life (33 years) and gaining my engineering degree here, I only learned very recently that some residential customers are provided with 2-phases. It seems to be due to some sort of distribution limitation of either 60 or 100 amps per phase. For example my 1932-built flat has a 3-phase 60 amp feed (wires are wrapped in burlap!) but am currently only connected to one. If I needed more than 60 amps they would wire in a 3-phase meter with a second phase connected. Household loads would be roughly evenly distributed between them but none would see both phases.

Yes, it's very unusual in a global sense but there's nothing wrong with the idea and it has absolutely nothing in common with the N. American "split phase" arrangement. No loads in the house would use both phases as that is 400VAC. At least until the OP asked this entirely-valid question...

I'm sure no one here will know the answer and I'd be reluctant to guess myself given that Hyundai had a big problem with the early Kona's 3-phase OBC in that it could mis-read the input and cause a short. I suspect informally that it may be OK as OBCs are generally (3) 1-phase units in one box but I'd be reluctant to be the one who says it's OK.

 

Thank you KiwiME. It is a valid question, and nobody, so far, seems to know the answer. Tesla haven't answered my email at all and the local Hyundai outfit seem to have ghosted me.
I read elsewhere that the IONIQ 5 had 3 x 3.5kW rectifiers, one of which lived in each phase, giving the maximum of 10.5kW. However, somehow, 2 were switched in parallel when only one phase was applied, giving 7kW. This still makes me wonder that even if I use 2 phases, I would still have only 3.5kW on each phase, and still delivering only 7kW. Although that would then draw only 15A on each of the phases.
I don't really know why we are 2-phase. We are in a new subdivision and the 300kVA transformer is on our boundary.

 

Hopefully you will find a simple answer to your question. It really depends on what type of power the car accepts and hopefully you can supply HKTech the info so he can help.
What does the connector on your car look like? I know there are different versions of the connector. This may help you determine what type of power the car can accept.
If you post a pic of the connector that would be helpful.

 

As I have already said, our IONIQ 5

car connector is a Type 2 Mennekes, as used universally except in America & a couple of outliers.

 

Yes, it's really more a matter of how the car's OBC handles 2 but not 3 phases and perhaps whether a particular choice of wiring the two active phases is more advantageous.
I spent an hour looking through the (N.A. spec) wiring docs and a bit of googling but all I've learned is that the OBC is referred to as the ICCU and is located under the rear seat in the I5.
It would surprise me if it wasn't designed to both tolerate a loss of one phase when running on 3, but also exploit all phases provided to it at startup without complaining. But it doesn't help my confidence that some I5 owners are experiencing ICCU failures.

I did find this discussion on Reddit which compares it with the N. American commercial 208VAC 3-ph standard. To some extent it's the same thing; when an EV is charged on Level 2, they use 2 legs to get 208VAC single phase, noting that one of those goes to the N pin of the J1772 even though it's not earth bonded. Here in NZ 2 legs would provide 400VAC single phase. I'm not clear if the N is required or not.

I think if it were me I'd install the hardware and leave the second phase disconnected until someone else proves this to work reliably. Having 7.4 kW is still a good charge rate. Alternatively, you could install a 50A breaker on one phase and set up the EVSE to offer up to 40 amps single phase and let the OBC handle it.

 

Looks like I finally received a proper answer from HKtech - 7kW single phase or 11kW three phase.
What car do you have? What part of the country are you in? I make V2L units to suit Hyundai/KIA, MG, BYD.

 

I did finally receive a reply from TESLA Australia. They said "Tesla Wall Connectors only support single phase and 3-phase setups." I have replied, pointing out that their own booklet shows a 2-phase connection. I wait with bated breath.
I'm beginning to believe that there is no advantage in 2-phase. As I wrote earlier "I read elsewhere that the IONIQ 5 had 3 x 3.5kW rectifiers, one of which lived in each phase, giving the maximum of 10.5kW. However, somehow, 2 were switched in parallel when only one phase was applied, giving 7kW. This still makes me wonder that even if I use 2 phases, I would still have only 3.5kW on each phase, and still delivering only 7kW. Although that would then draw only 15A on each of the phases."
The EVSE outputs a control signal to the car in the form of a square wave. The mark-space ratio of that square wave tells the car how much current the EVSE can deliver. The OBC in the car decides how much it wants to accept. The car does not know whether it is going to receive single phase, or more, until the 230VAC voltage actually arrives.
I looked at that Reddit discussion and someone wrongly states that the phases are 180° apart. The phases are 120° apart.
I did look at a breakdown and saw that the ICCU is under the back seat. I don't really want to dissemble the car to find a part number. I might phone Hyundai spare parts and ask them. Wish me luck!

 

It's been decades since engineering school, but, here goes.

If you're getting 230 volts across one phase to neutral, then simply use that. One leg, plus neutral, along with a ground: that should, essentially, be completely equivalent to a single-phase 230-V circuit.

With 230 volts, running at 48 amps, you've got 11 kW of power.

Unless I'm missing something here, I think that it's that simple.

 

You are missing a couple of things.
1) The IONIQ 5 will accept only 7kW (32A @ 230VAC) single phase. Therefore, 2) I would like to try to use the other phase to try to reach the 11kW max that the IONIQ 5 will accept on 3-phase. ie One phase delivering 32A and the other 16A to total 10.5kW. Or maybe even the 400VAC between the 120° spaced phases to deliver 11kW @ 27.5A.
Thank you for your 2 cents' worth but I am really trying to find someone who actually knows the answer.

 

As far as I am aware, for AC charging, the Ioniq5 is only designed to work with single-phase 120/240V or two-phases of 120V (which is 208/240V in N America). I don’t believe it has any provisions to accept 2-phase 240V, regardless of the EVSE used. If it sees 240V on L1, I believe it simply accepts power from there and nothing else. It will only accept power from L1 and L2 if it is 120V. With that said, that applies to N America vehicles which is all I am familiar with. Other markets may be different.

Since you’re struggling to even find an EVSE that will work with 2-phase 400V and it seems like a very uncommon situation, I think it’s really unlikely that Hyundai would design the OBC to accept it.

 

I'm sure that you do know all about the N America system. But that is not much use to me. Here, the IONIQ 5 will accept 7kW single phase at 230VAC or 11kW 3-phase (That's 230V each phase to neutral, and 400V between 120° spaced phases.
Thank you for your 2 cents' worth but I am really trying to find someone who actually knows the answer.

 

Yes, but if you're taking one phase with neutral, then the resulting circuit, is a single-phase 230-V circuit, n'est-ce pas?

 

I guess that the part that I'm missing is the 32-amp limitation.

My Ioniq 5 charges on a single-phase circuit running at 48 amps: 11.5 kW.

 

11.5kW at 48 Amps is very interesting. That would be 240VAC. Is that available in N America?
Hyundai New Zealand says: " AC Chargers usually come in either 1-phase power or 3-phase power. 1-phase will output 7kw, 3-phase will output 11kw. Your vehicle is capable of accepting up to 11kw for AC charging. These values are peak and do not represent a continuous charge rate. Charger and Vehicle will adjust charge rate according to conditions. " I cannot, so far, get them to commit what would happen if I applied 2 phases. They are currently ghosting me.

 

Is it possible that the E-GMP platform in New Zealand is different from what is released to North America?

As far as I know, E-GMP maxes out at 48 amps. That is why I am puzzled as to why you don't simply run a standard single-phase EVSE at 48 amps on your 230 volts. That would yield 11.04 kW.

To answer your question, yes, 240 VAC is standard residential power in North America. Voltage across L1 to L2 is 240V. L1 to neutral, or L2 to neutral is 120V.

Hyundai New Zealand's claim that single-phase will be limited to 7 kW is what I don't understand. Why is there this limitation? Again, E-GMP cars in North America will take a full 48 amps.

 

I'm only guessing but as there is no 3-phase (230V L-N, 400V between phases L1-L2-L2) commonly in N America, they make the single phase capable of handling 11kW. Here, it would seem that 3 phases are needed to attain 11kW.

 

@DomT - What connector type does Tesla use in NZ? If it's the same Type 2, then there would be nothing to keep any other EV from plugging into a Tesla charger. If so, it'd be really hard to believe that Tesla could be wired some special way that would damage other EVs.

If Tesla is a unique connector like it is in North America, then what's the non-Tesla EV charger of choice in New Zealand? I'd love to look at their technical specs and see what I can figure out about potential ways you can hook it up.

 

TESLA uses Type 2 here & just about everywhere except N America, it seems. Your statement "...then there would be nothing to keep any other EV from plugging into a Tesla charger. If so, it'd be really hard to believe that Tesla could be wired some special way that would damage other EVs" is very insightful and probably correct. However, installing 2-phase is more costly than installing single phase (We have been quoted an extra $400 (USD250). So if the IONIQ 5 is incapable of utilising the additional phase to bring the charge rate up to 11kW, then we are wasting our dough.
The installation manual for NZ is here: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...default/files/support/charging/Gen3_WallConnector_Installation_Manual_AU_NZ.pdf
Pages 7, 8 & 9 list 4 methods of connecting the mains power, including a 2-phase method.

 

I need ICCU part number to get you correct answer for your market?

 

Hello, I've finally got the number from Hyundai Manukau. ICCU: 36400 - 1FAB0. Does that make sense?

 

That's exactly why I stick to the portable unit for my Kona. I only use it every 1-2 weeks as it is and the extra $4k to run a wire 40m from panel to a 7.4kW unit outside would pay for a lot of DC charging, which I also have 1 block away in the Napier CBD.

 

@HKtech does the EU firmware allow 2phase charging?

 

It all depends on market and type of grid in your country.
ICCU are different in other markets.