New battery layout and motor components in Hyundai / Kia Electric Vehicles. - Hyundai Ioniq Forum
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post #1 of 79 (permalink) Old 05-05-18, 11:51 PM Thread Starter
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New battery layout and motor components in Hyundai / Kia Electric Vehicles.

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Am posting this in the Ioniq EV forum because Hyundai has stated they will be using the same modular components in all their new electric vehicles.
The first two EVs to show this new architecture are the Kona EV and the Niro EV, but next year I expect to see both an updated Ioniq EV and a new Soul EV based on this.
This first post will show the new battery layout, in the next post I will show the new OBC and motor components.

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Here are some photos of the Kona EV I took at EVTrend Motor Show in Seoul in April. Plus a couple I found on the web.
The cutaway model on display is of the 64kWh version.











I counted the cells! There are 288. The cells are laid out 3 in parallel to form a 3 cell group, 96 groups in series.
Under the floor are 6 modules of 10 cell groups, under the back seat are 4 modules of 9 cell groups.
(6*10*3) + (4*9*3) = 288

The nominal voltage of each cell is 3.7V, the rated capacity of each cell is 60Ah
Thus the nominal capacity of the 64 version is 3.7*60*288 = 63.94kWh

I didn't see a 39.2kWh Kona EV on display. But I did see an image of its battery pack.
The 4 modules under the seat are empty.
Under the floor are 6 modules of 15 cell groups. But for this version the cells are laid out 2 in parallel to form cell pairs.
Hence this version has 180 cells.
For the math to work out the nominal voltage of each cell has to be 3.63V
I don't know why it is lower than the 3.7V of the 64kWh version.
3.63*60*180 =39.24kWh

The official specs are here - https://www.hyundai.com/kr/ko/vehicl...specifications

Quote:
KONA Electric 복합 5.6km/kWh(도심 6.2km/kWh, 고속도로 5.0km/kWh) | CO2 배출량 0g/km | 축전지 정격전압(용량) : 356V(180Ah) | 공차중량 : 1,685kg | 1회 충전 주행 거리 - 복합 406km(도심 444km. 고속도로 359km)

KONA Electric_Lite 패키지 복합 5.8km/kWh(도심 6.5km/kWh, 고속도로 5.1km/kWh) | CO2 배출량 0g/km | 축전지 정격전압(용량) : 327V(120Ah) | 공차중량 : 1,540kg | 1회 충전 주행 거리 - 복합 254km(도심 282km. 고속도로 221km)
356V / 96 = 3.7V : 60Ah*3 = 180Ah
327 / 90 = 3.63V : 60Ah*2 = 120Ah

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The Niro EV went on show at the 5th Jeju EV Expo -



I don't have any internal details on the battery pack other than the capacity is identical, but also externally it is identical to the Kona EV.

Both are the same size and shape, and have ridging showing the module layout.



Both have a cover under the front passenger seat to access the Power Relay Assembly



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post #2 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-05-18, 05:52 AM
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It looks like both versions use the same cells, so the lower voltage per cell on the 40kWh pack could be to increase the life of the pack. That is required on the smaller pack to compensate, because it will be subject to greater stress throughout its life (the same charging power on both packs, means a smaller C rate on the larger pack, also the same power on the wheels, etc).

Hyundai/LG are clearly designing the battery packs so that use never see more than a very small drop in capacity throughout the life of the car.

Thanks for so much great info. Lots of juice from only one exhibition!

I only don't like to see the wireless charging. This is no time to waste energy efficiency. We need the best efficiency possible. If one is to charge for half an hour, or four hours or more, what trouble is it to plug in the cable? We waste more time with cell phone apps and RFID cards than plugging the cable.

Ioniq EV received in September 2017
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post #3 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-05-18, 10:11 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by migle View Post
It looks like both versions use the same cells, so the lower voltage per cell on the 40kWh pack could be to increase the life of the pack. That is required on the smaller pack to compensate, because it will be subject to greater stress throughout its life (the same charging power on both packs, means a smaller C rate on the larger pack, also the same power on the wheels, etc)...
Maybe. The 64kWh standard version and the 39.2 kWh lite version both use 60Ah cells of the same size and shape. But we don't know if they are the same chemistry. The different nominal voltage may mean that they are not. Neither car company Hyundai or Kia has said anything about the cells. Similarly LG Chem and SK Innovation the two battery companies most likely to have made the cells have not stated the details.

The 64kWh standard version has a maximum power of 150kW whereas the 39.2 kWh lite version only has 100kW. Both have the same Torque 395Nm. I have not seen it stated that the smaller pack will charge at the same power rate as the larger.

Neither car is available for test drives yet. I don't think anyone has even seen a 39.2 kWh car. There is still a lot we don't know.

One small detail I have seen and am pleased with is the option to set the charging limit as a percentage of SOC.



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Last edited by JejuSoul; 06-05-18 at 10:23 AM. Reason: added extra detail about charge limits
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post #4 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-05-18, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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I believe the new OBC and motor components are the same in both the Kona EV and the Niro EV. (For the 64kWh standard version of each. I haven't seen the lite version).
It is a different design from that used previously in the Ioniq EV and Soul EV.
Those cars both used water cooling. There are pipes running through each section. This has been a cause of problems when hairline fractures in the pipes cause liquid to spill onto the circuit boards.
On the Ioniq this occasionally happens to the EPCU, on the Soul this commonly happens to the OBC.
The new design has no water inlet pipes going into the motor and electrical systems, so I am not sure how they are cooled.

In the first picture you can see the water cooling system just to the left, and the black pipes leading from it.
I just don't know how it connects. I also do not know if this water system is also used for cooling the battery.

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Firstly the Kona EV





The wireless charging is an extra added purely to the demonstration model at the show. It is not standard, nor even available as an option from Hyundai.




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Next the Niro EV. The labels are in Korean sorry.

OBC is on top, EPCU below it, the motor is at the bottom. The High Voltage Junction Box is vertical.













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Last edited by JejuSoul; 06-05-18 at 11:26 AM. Reason: added some extra text about the cooling system
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post #5 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-05-18, 08:44 PM
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JejuSoul, you mentioned that Hyundai has stated they will be using the same modular components in all their new electric vehicles and that you expect the Ioniq to get an upgrade. Can you guess when that will be? 2019 or 2020 Ioniq model? Which will be upgraded?

Last edited by evioniq; 06-05-18 at 08:48 PM.
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post #6 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-05-18, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evioniq View Post
JejuSoul, you mentioned that Hyundai has stated they will be using the same modular components in all their new electric vehicles and that you expect the Ioniq to get an upgrade. Can you guess when that will be? 2019 or 2020 Ioniq model? Which will be upgraded?
I asked that question to the lead Hyundai sales guy at the Expo. He said, "in the next two years". So I would guess that would be MY2020.
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post #7 of 79 (permalink) Old 07-05-18, 02:29 AM Thread Starter
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The inlet for the water cooling on a Soul EV looks like this:
It is an OBC just removed from my car.



I can't see such an inlet in the pictures for the Niro EV above. Can anyone else see how the cooling attaches?

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Also just saw this about the battery cells in the Niro EV - http://www.etnews.com/20180502000200
Quote:
The Niro EV is the first South Korean electric vehicle to have an ' NCM 811 battery. NCM 811, which is developed by SK Innovation and Eco Pro, comprises nickel, cobalt, and manganese of lithium-ion battery at 8:1:1 ratio. As nickel content, which has the greatest impact on increasing energy density, which is increased by 60% to 80%. It has stable surveillance and discharge performance.
If this is the case then the Niro EV has very different cells from the Kona EV. Those are likely to be NCM 622 by LG Chem.

There's a second article about the battery cells here - http://www.etnews.com/20180503000261
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Last edited by JejuSoul; 07-05-18 at 03:22 AM.
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post #8 of 79 (permalink) Old 07-05-18, 10:11 AM
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That makes sense though from the information that was floating around the internet before that said Hyundai use LG Chem batteries and Kia uses SK Innovations batteries. That just confirms it.

The question now is who makes the more durable and long lasting battery?
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post #9 of 79 (permalink) Old 07-05-18, 10:34 AM
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Appreciate all the pictures, thanks! Got to say though, ugly charging port door.

2018 Kia Niro LX HEV Metal Stream - identical to Ioniq drivetrain
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post #10 of 79 (permalink) Old 07-05-18, 10:50 AM
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I wish my Ioniq has a front charging port instead...

I wonder if they will offer OEM battery pack upgrade down the line. If in 5 or 6 years I can upgrade my Ioniq with a new pack and double the range or something for 5 to 8 grand, I might go for it.
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