New battery layout and motor components in Hyundai / Kia Electric Vehicles. - Page 8 - Hyundai Ioniq Forum
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post #71 of 79 (permalink) Old 21-01-19, 04:43 AM
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If we assume that next year's Ioniq will use Kona electric cells (60Ah, 3.63V nominal) as some here claimed, the 38.3kWh pack may mean 176 cells arranged in 88 clusters in series, each containing 2 cells in parallel, i.e 4 cells (2 clusters) less than the 39.2 Kona:
3.63V*88=319V nominal.
3.63V*60Ah*176=38.3kWh pack.
88? Never... That would mean a lowered voltage, lower charging speeds, increased heat losses, more copper, etc.

I bet the 38.3kWh Ioniq has the same battery arrangement as the 39.2kWh Kona, except it has a larger buffer for longevity.

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post #72 of 79 (permalink) Old 21-01-19, 08:20 AM
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^Kona 39.2 has 90 and already lower charging speed than current Ioniq.
Reducing usable from 39.2 to 38.3 just for increased buffer - never.
Your bet has been noted...I stay with mine...near future will tell.

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post #73 of 79 (permalink) Old 16-05-19, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by migle View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by giora View Post
If we assume that next year's Ioniq will use Kona electric cells (60Ah, 3.63V nominal) as some here claimed, the 38.3kWh pack may mean 176 cells arranged in 88 clusters in series, each containing 2 cells in parallel, i.e 4 cells (2 clusters) less than the 39.2 Kona:
3.63V*88=319V nominal.
3.63V*60Ah*176=38.3kWh pack.
Expected WLTP range could be ~280 km with this arrangement.
88? Never... That would mean a lowered voltage, lower charging speeds, increased heat losses, more copper, etc.

I bet the 38.3kWh Ioniq has the same battery arrangement as the 39.2kWh Kona, except it has a larger buffer for longevity.
PushEVs quoted some more details on the new 38.3 kWh battery:
https://pushevs.com/wp-content/uploa...tric-specs.png

The 319.4V battery is as I predicted...
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post #74 of 79 (permalink) Old 18-05-19, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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I uploaded the specs as an image file. I find it easier to read the post when the image it refers to is inline.

Some things we can work out from these specs.
The weight of the battery pack ( with heating plate ) = 38300 / 112.4 = 340.75 kg
This is 25% heavier than the previous pack. 271.8kg

The overall energy density of the pack hasn't increased, even though the actual cells are roughly 25% more energy dense.
I think this means it is the cooling system inside the battery pack that adds the weight.
Having liquid cooling doesn't just add extra cost, it also adds extra weight.

Nissan has chosen not to add liquid cooling to the new 62kWh Leaf.
This might be a good idea if the car is only to be sold in mild climates such as Norway.
The current Ioniq is not suffering from battery degradation. It does not have liquid cooling. Hyundai does not try to sell this car in Arizona.
The current car has a lighter, relatively more powerful battery. The new car has a larger, heavier battery, with a more powerful motor.
It will be interesting to see the new car tested to see how it actually performs. I have sat in the new Ioniq but haven't driven it.
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Last edited by JejuSoul; 18-05-19 at 07:31 AM. Reason: added an extra sentence
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post #75 of 79 (permalink) Old 18-05-19, 11:45 AM
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Some things we can work out from these specs.
The weight of the battery pack ( with heating plate ) = 38300 / 112.4 = 340.75 kg
This is 25% heavier than the previous pack. 271.8kg

The overall energy density of the pack hasn't increased, even though the actual cells are roughly 25% more energy dense.
37% more energy with 25% more weight - the density did increase.
As for the cells, do we know for sure the type of cells used in the refreshed model and their number and arrangement? Where from came the 25% increase in energy density?
Quote:
I think this means it is the cooling system inside the battery pack that adds the weight.
Having liquid cooling doesn't just add extra cost, it also adds extra weight.
Do you know it is liquid cooled or just a possible deduction from data known?
Quote:
The current car has a lighter, relatively more powerful battery.
I think it is not relatively more powerful. Judging from the 25% increase in motor power it makes sense that battery power increased accordingly.

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Last edited by giora; 18-05-19 at 11:54 AM.
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post #76 of 79 (permalink) Old 18-05-19, 01:07 PM
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I think it is not relatively more powerful. Judging from the 25% increase in motor power it makes sense that battery power increased accordingly.
My mistake...motor power was increased from 88 to 100 kW, this is only ~14% increase.
So, the current car battery is relatively more powerful.

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post #77 of 79 (permalink) Old 23-05-19, 09:53 AM
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«Ioniq is not suffering from battery degradation»
Can this be proven?
Cayman be sure of this?
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post #78 of 79 (permalink) Old 24-05-19, 01:09 AM
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«Ioniq is not suffering from battery degradation»
....
Cayman be sure of this?
This is wishful thinking, not true. All Lithium-based batteries do degrade, although the extent may differ with the chosen chemistry.

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post #79 of 79 (permalink) Old 25-05-19, 02:41 AM Thread Starter
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«Ioniq is not suffering from battery degradation»

Of course all Lithium-based batteries do degrade. The Ioniq will suffer from battery degradation. Note the future tense in that statement and the word 'suffer'.
I am using the word suffer to imply a severe loss that actually impacts your ability to drive the car normally.

My original statement was in the present tense because currently I have no evidence that anyone has lost the buffer at the top of the pack, before any loss of driving range occurs. I collect data from users who report their BMS data using Torque. It is a very small subset of actual Ioniq drivers, so clearly may not be the norm. But I have also not seen any general reports of severe battery degradation either.
Contrast this with the very rapid degradation seen in the Nissan Leaf or Kia Soul in Phoenix, Arizona.

I understand the original quote, but clearly others do not, so given the misunderstanding I will alter the original statement to "Ioniq is not suffering from severe battery degradation yet".

The codes for using Torque Pro with an OBD2 adapter to display battery info are here -
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Last edited by JejuSoul; 25-05-19 at 02:42 AM. Reason: correction
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