Electric range - Page 6 - Hyundai Ioniq Forum
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post #51 of 213 (permalink) Old 24-12-16, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Torchy View Post
Hi Jan Treur. This is very good work that you have done. If you are clever enough to make your figures into a graph, I THINK this is what you will see:-


Loss of range due to cold temps is linear - a straight line at (say) 60 degrees downwards starting top left to bottom right. I say straight line (linear) as dropping from 32C to 31C is the same as dropping 8C to 7C. So a straight line at a downward angle as temp falls and range reduces.


The reduction of range due to speed will be a curve (I think). Loss of range at low speeds will be small as small wind resistance. As speed increases, wind resistance increases exponentially (a curve). I feel that the "curve " will cross the straight line in 2 places. (I am not clever enough to do this on a computer - let alone post it!)


This is shown by your table. At 25C-30C at 100-120km/h range = 220km


At 0C- 5C at -80-100km/h range = 227km (almost the same)


If some clever person can draw the graphs, it will be easy to see what speed to travel at to cover a given distance (range) for any particular weather temperatures (in any country). This may be useful to look up "what speed must I travel at, at a temp of X degreesC, to cover Y km/miles?
I did some computational modeling and based on the parameters I found I made the two graphs below, based on the data we have by now. The pink areas are the range losses that could be expected for an average driver in average circumstances (based on the population of drivers currently represented by the data). Non-average drivers (for example, hypermilers versus very 'sporty' drivers) and/or non-average circumstances (for example, hills or ice rains) may easily go beyond these pink areas. The first graph shows loss due to temperature, and the second graph due to speed. In real world situations in principle they both occur and add to each other.
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post #52 of 213 (permalink) Old 25-12-16, 12:17 AM
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The models I used assume a linear dependency of range on temperature, and a dependency of range on speed that is a combination of linear and quadratic. For the latter part of the model, for higher speeds, such as 110 km/h, the quadratic part dominates by a factor 4 to 5 over the linear part, for lower speeds such as 50 km/h this factor is 1.5 to 2.

As our available population of cases shows a lot of variation, the model naturally deviates from these individual cases. For example, in some of the high temperature cases concerning the Jeju Island rally they have selected a very good hypermiler as driver, whereas in Bjorn Nyland's Winter Tests he did not try to drive in an economic way, and sometimes used the sporty mode, and besides, he had to fight very bad weather conditions in the second part of his trip.

Due to this variation over the different cases, the average deviation between model outcomes and reported data over all cases is about 20 km. Most of this average is determined by the most extreme cases. If two or three most extreme cases are left out (by considering them as socalled outliers), the average deviation between model outcomes and reported data becomes about 10 km, which seems not too bad.

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post #53 of 213 (permalink) Old 25-12-16, 12:35 AM
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P.S. More cases of reported ranges or efficiency numbers for given average speed and temperature are still very welcome, as such computational estimations will become more accurate with larger numbers of reported cases.

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post #54 of 213 (permalink) Old 25-12-16, 02:56 AM
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This post shows how the partially filled table of reported data compares to a full table of outcomes of the model. As you can see for 10 of the 13 cells the difference is around 10 km or even less, but for 3 of them (in red) the difference is more than 20 km.

Still keep in mind that this is about average drivers and circumstances.
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Last edited by Jan Treur; 25-12-16 at 03:00 AM.
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post #55 of 213 (permalink) Old 25-12-16, 11:18 PM
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A small correction: row 6 of the second table did not show the numbers for that temperature. Below you can find the corrected table.
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post #56 of 213 (permalink) Old 25-12-16, 11:32 PM
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Based on this analysis some rules of thumb could be identified. For example, for the dependency on temperature such a rule of thumb could be:

"Every 10 degrees C lower in temperature will decrease the range by about 50 km"

For the dependency on speed a slightly more complicated rule of thumb could be identified:

"Around 50 km/h every 10 km/h increase in speed will decrease the range by 10 km, which worsens to a decrease in range of 20 km for every 10 km/h higher in speed around 100 km/h"

or

"A 10 km/h increase in speed will decrease the range in km by your speed in km/h divided by 5"
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post #57 of 213 (permalink) Old 26-12-16, 07:07 AM
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Ioniq in NOrway video

Quote:
Originally Posted by goncalo View Post
And that's why I want to see real test drive and not what Hyundai announces!!!
I want to get some feedback from people who actually owns the car and even better, lives in cold countries like mine!!
I know that in Norway, the car is out so people have the chance to buy it.
Let's hope they can come here a share with us their experience.
Hi,

You may already know this but there is a very interesting 2 part You-Tube video about a guy in Norway using an Ioniq EV to deliver parcels. The weather is sub zero and he shows every detail of range, charging, car features etc. His 'other car' is a Tesla X so it the comparisons he makes are also interesting. Really interesting and, to me, very encouraging. You will find it here:

Best wishes

John
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post #58 of 213 (permalink) Old 27-12-16, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Treur View Post
Based on this analysis some rules of thumb could be identified. For example, for the dependency on temperature such a rule of thumb could be:

"Every 10 degrees C lower in temperature will decrease the range by about 50 km"

For the dependency on speed a slightly more complicated rule of thumb could be identified:

"Around 50 km/h every 10 km/h increase in speed will decrease the range by 10 km, which worsens to a decrease in range of 20 km for every 10 km/h higher in speed around 100 km/h"

or

"A 10 km/h increase in speed will decrease the range in km by your speed in km/h divided by 5"

I note that this tread has more view than any other by a factor of 3x. I hope the following graph will help. Sorry it is hand drawn.


From the information given by Jan Treur I have prepared a very rough graph of SPEED vs RANGE at different temps. It can be used in 3 ways


1) SPEED. Look at the speed you want to travel at. Move horizontal to the line that is nearest to the temperature of the day. Move vertically down to read off what range you may achieve at that speed on a full charge. (If you only have 60% charge, multiply range reading by 0.6, etc, etc, etc).


2) TEMPERATURE. Look at the temp outside today (say 0C).look at the distance you need to travel (say 100 miles). Look upwards from your distance (100 miles) to the 0C line. Look left to the speed axis - this tells you the speed you must travel at to cover 100 miles (assuming a 100% charge in battery).


3) The main one: RANGE. If I travel at ? speed, how far can I go at todays temperature?


I trust that Jan Treur can do this graph on his computer and post it. Members can then print it off and try it. NOT 100% ACCURATE ! ! !
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post #59 of 213 (permalink) Old 28-12-16, 12:18 AM
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Yes, that can be done. But note that in your sketch the lines with equal temperature were drawn like straight lines, but in fact they should be curved lines, as the dependency of range on speed is not linear. However, if you make a similar graph with lines for equal speed you get straight lines, since the dependency of range on temperature was taken linear in the model; see the graph below. Use this with care, don't call or email us when you get stuck with an empty battery in the middle of the night...
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post #60 of 213 (permalink) Old 28-12-16, 12:39 AM
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This is the same graph for miles:
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